Posted on 12/16/2007 1:01:26 PM PST by greyfoxx39
Kathryn – It seems to me that the race issue is where religion and politics most clearly intersect in Romney's case. Like it or not, if Romney becomes the Republican nominee, Democrats will bring up the "Mormon racism" charge again. You can just bet on it. But more immediately, it will be interesting to see what role, if any, it will play in voters' decisions in the primaries. The fact is, it has become a staple of political campaigns for candidates to be asked about their association with institutions that discriminate. There was a huge uproar in the 2000 campaign, for example, about George W. Bush and Bob Jones University. (Although my favorite, if trivial, example was the time Bill Clinton was asked about playing golf at an all-white country club, and he responded, with a completely straight face, that he had only played nine holes.) In any event, it's common practice to ask about country clubs, social groups, schools, etc.
The issue now is whether that kind of question also applies to Romney's church. And the problem, for Romney, is that, to my knowledge at least, he has not said simply that the LDS church was wrong to exclude blacks from the priesthood and top leadership positions before 1978. Voters don't mind it – they even like it – when a candidate says something in the past was wrong but that now it is right. But today, on "Meet the Press," Romney wouldn't say that.
-SNIP-
i asked about the revelation several weeks ago, when a few of us in the NR Washington bureau met with Mormon Elders M. Russell Ballard and Quentin L. Cook, who had come to Washington to meet with staffers of several publications. (They were concerned about the image of the church; they did not discuss Romney or his candidacy and offered no opinion on it.) When I asked why the church changed position in 1978, the answer was, if I recall correctly, that they did not know. It wasn't a flip answer; they were saying that they could not know why God had given that revelation to Kimball at that particular moment. They were not inclined to say that the church had been wrong before. That's a built-in dilemma of the system; if a church says it is led by revelation, and then says it was wrong, it's kind of like saying God was wrong.
MORE AT
So in listing me first, it means you DO NOT research the very people you pigeonhole, making you equally biased and therefore equally stupid as those you in turn attack for their perceived transgressions.
I hope while you worked today you have put more thought into your ideas, for right now they are devoid of such.
Uncanny coincidence all the way down to the comment that “race and religion” is where Romney’s mormonism intersects with politics. You can’t get much closer to a direct quote of the posts here on FR.
You also mentioned the sexism issue: mormonism’s view of women.
As mentioned on the threads, Romney simply needs to renounce the teaching of Smith and Young on these subjects and he’s in the clear.
If I’m reading it right, this article says this came up on Meet the Press. You predicted it. Anyone have a transcript. I’d love to have a copy of his answer.
The correct name for people who do this is BIGOTS.
You've got it just a bit wrong:
They POST FACTS about the racism of THE BOOK OF Mormon and HAVE ADMITTED the racism in their own CHURCHES past was WRONG.
The correct name for people who do this is Realists.
People who FAIL to admit their OWN organizations failures and are quick to try to put others on the DEFENSE are called...
FR apologists for the LDS organization.
Envy is one of the the things that Christians try to eliminate in their lives.
If NON-Christians are looking to the Majority religion in UTAH as perhaps a haven, then they should also realize that Utah is VERY high in...
mortgage foreclosure rates...
use of anti-depressants...
suicides...
Salt Lake City is being overwhelmed by panhandlers and bums on the street...
(Google is our friend!)
That line is a misunderstanding of the outreach of the gospel.
The Gospel of Mark shows Jesus repeatedly ministering in Gentile territory. For example, the demoniac he healed with the "legion" of demons within, had those demons cast into a herd of pigs. You might recall that pork is not part of the Jewish diet. In fact, Jesus was on the east of the Sea of Galilee in one of His foray's into Gentile territory.
When the possessed man then asked to travel with Jesus, the Lord told the man that he should instead return to his home and tell them of the kingdom of God. The man did so, in that Gentile area. The Lord was saying, in effect, that Israel was not yet ready to accept a Gentile as part of Jesus' following.
The prophecy of Jesus had said that HE would be a "light to the Gentiles." He was. Roman Centurion's, Syrians, Phoenicians, and those in the region of the 10 cities.
You also might remember that Jesus drove the money changers out of the Court of the Gentiles and said, "My house shall be called a house of prayer for the Ethnoi (Gentiles), but you have made it a den of thieves." In other words, Jesus was really hacked off that they were buying and selling in the Gentiles' worship space.
The idea of preaching to the Jews "only" was about the sequencing of the gospel proclamation that He gave the Apostles. First, Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and then the whole world. At that point in time, there were reasons to train the Apostles in the crawl/walk/run method; this is, the easiest first and working your way up to the hardest.
Does it REALLY matter?
I have now asked you twice for a reference to a revelation that says that blacks were forbidden to hold the priesthood. You have been unable to provide the reference because it doesn’t exist. You clearly are ignorant about Mormon beliefs and yet you persist in lying about Mormon beliefs. Does your religion believe in lying? Are you Muslim?
SOME do!!!
Are you going to claim that there is a revelation denying Blacks the priesthood? Because if you can’t, you will lose this argument too.
Show me the revelation or run away.
That would imply that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were False Teachers. If he did that, then it would mean he would no longer be a "good Mormon" and he would lose his Temple Recommend and hence lose his ability to be "exalted" (become a god of his own planet) in the afterlife.
He wants his cake (becoming a god) and eat it too (becoming president).
These things will come out. If the democrats can paint Bush as a crazed religious kook (like they have), they are going to have a field day with Romney!
If Romney were a "Jack Mormon" rather than a "Good Mormon" he would probably be electable. But the fact that he will not condemn the teachings of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young means that these quotes are going to be an albatross around his neck.
But people here are content to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that the democrats are not going to make hay of all these quotes from Joseph Smith and all the Apostles (including some named Romney) because Mitt Romney looks good on TV (as opposed to the old looking Fred Thompson) and Romney pretends to be something he has never been before, a Conservative Republican.
For saying this I will be branded an Anti-Mormon bigot.
Cest la vie.
I try to help keep these pious Christians from lying and going to hell, but all it seems to do is make them madder. I wonder why that is?
"Only one man stands as the Lord's spokesman to the Church and the world, and he is the President of the Church. The words of all other men should be weighed against his inspired words. Though His prophet is mortal, God will not let him lead His Church astray."
"If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church…who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason."
HA Ha ha!!
So much for MORMONISM to be a great SOUL CLEANSING agent!
Then it should be EXTREMELY easy for you to POST SOME VERSE to show this fact to us who are blind.
Why; headquarters TELLS us so!
We can READ about it!
All of our wonderous works AGREE!
We beat; I mean TEACH these things to our young as soon as they can understand!
--MormonDude(What's NOT to believe??)
Traditional Christianity is biblical Christianity. Biblical Christianity has no racist beliefs.
Oh Great ONE!
You’ve beat me to it!
Is it now possible for a black to become the head Apostle of the Mormon Church?
Why or why not?
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