Posted on 12/16/2007 1:01:26 PM PST by greyfoxx39
Kathryn – It seems to me that the race issue is where religion and politics most clearly intersect in Romney's case. Like it or not, if Romney becomes the Republican nominee, Democrats will bring up the "Mormon racism" charge again. You can just bet on it. But more immediately, it will be interesting to see what role, if any, it will play in voters' decisions in the primaries. The fact is, it has become a staple of political campaigns for candidates to be asked about their association with institutions that discriminate. There was a huge uproar in the 2000 campaign, for example, about George W. Bush and Bob Jones University. (Although my favorite, if trivial, example was the time Bill Clinton was asked about playing golf at an all-white country club, and he responded, with a completely straight face, that he had only played nine holes.) In any event, it's common practice to ask about country clubs, social groups, schools, etc.
The issue now is whether that kind of question also applies to Romney's church. And the problem, for Romney, is that, to my knowledge at least, he has not said simply that the LDS church was wrong to exclude blacks from the priesthood and top leadership positions before 1978. Voters don't mind it – they even like it – when a candidate says something in the past was wrong but that now it is right. But today, on "Meet the Press," Romney wouldn't say that.
-SNIP-
i asked about the revelation several weeks ago, when a few of us in the NR Washington bureau met with Mormon Elders M. Russell Ballard and Quentin L. Cook, who had come to Washington to meet with staffers of several publications. (They were concerned about the image of the church; they did not discuss Romney or his candidacy and offered no opinion on it.) When I asked why the church changed position in 1978, the answer was, if I recall correctly, that they did not know. It wasn't a flip answer; they were saying that they could not know why God had given that revelation to Kimball at that particular moment. They were not inclined to say that the church had been wrong before. That's a built-in dilemma of the system; if a church says it is led by revelation, and then says it was wrong, it's kind of like saying God was wrong.
MORE AT
UHhhh...
'a consensus of men'
Is EXACTLY what the top leaders of YOUR church are!!
In the OLD TESTEMENT, a TRUE prophet NEVER had to have a BACKUP vote by a group of yesmen!
He either spoke GOD's word or NOT!!!
Please; do not be so upset.
It's in our DNA.
You see; to a Mormon, ANY position that is not full for us is against us...
And anything that's against us is an attack...
And anyone who attacks us is our enemy...
And, as EVERYONE knows: our enemies HATE US!!!
--MormonDude(You'd better be nice to ME!)
Mom... MOM!
Please; let's play nice!
You KNOW he's not got the Fullness of the Gospel living in his soul; so he's bound to be a bit snippy by being called a liar.
--MormonDude(I'll be right back. I've just received a message from Seven of Nine.)
It's been 30 years since the Mormon Church reluctantly decided to allow black men to hold their (previously racist) priesthood. Right now it would appear that their entire leadership (First Presidency, Council of the 12) are all White and Delightsome old men.
It's possible. It's also possible that Hell will freeze over.
I'm sure there are a lot of people holding out hope.
There's always hope.
There's not a chance.
I read something the other day about blacks being allowed a certain level now, but that there were other levels still not open to them. Is that correct?
I wish I could be more specific, but I don’t know enough of their teaching.
Well; SOME day THEY just might get the PRIESTESSHOOD; when their child-bearing days are over.
We know BigFoot only from footprints and fuzzy pictures, yet MILLIONS believe he exists.
Like a shadow, or footprint - each an indication that something WAS there...
An OFFICIAL decree WAS pronounced that NOW, Blacks CAN be in the priesthood.
See Resty!!
I TOLD you!! ;^)
#130
Show me the revelation or run away.
Strange... this is EXACTLY the tack we take with the Mormons over their secret oops! SACRED Temple Rites®!
Why or why not?
I would guess it would depend on the color of the smoke out the chimney!
[ Are you going to claim that there is a revelation denying Blacks the priesthood? Because if you can’t, you will lose this argument too.
Show me the revelation or run away.]
Are you saying the entire Book Of Mormon WAS NOT a revelation of Joseph Smith? The racism is embedded in the BOM, clear as day.
Not good enough, Don. You are not dealing with the bible. You are dealing with those who distorted it. Many in history have distorted everything from prophecy to race. Because someone tells you the Lord’s coming back on Dec 18, 2007 AND uses the bible, that does not mean he represents traditional, biblical Christianity.
The truth is that Philip the deacon baptized the Ethiopian without any discussion of race whatsoever.
Like a shadow, or footprint - each an indication that something WAS there...
So you believe in BigFoot. That explains a lot : )
An OFFICIAL decree WAS pronounced that NOW, Blacks CAN be in the priesthood.
What would you say about women holding the priesthood? Do you think that there is a revelation forbidding women to hold the priesthood? Have women held the priesthood?
What was the question? Maybe I can help. I am familiar with all of the Temple Ordinances, probably a little rusty, but I was married in the Salt Lake Temple.
I see you understand to what I was referring when I said the Bible is racist. So racism for you is strictly about skin color, as opposed to genetics, i.e. race?
In no place in the Bible does God condemn people because of skin color. This is truly an invention of racists and Joseph Smith.
Joseph Smith held no such views, however American WASPs, White Anglo Saxon Protestants, did. Early Mormons joined the church came from Protestant religions and brought those beliefs with them. Many people seem to be unaware of the WASP racist beliefs which kept WASPs from giving African Americans the priesthood until the 1960s. See the post below to read about it. For His own purposes, God chose not to correct this erroneous belief in the Church until 1978. The church stands corrected. You will find no defense for past racism because there is none to make. One can explain, but not excuse.
As for the notion that the Book of Mormon is racist, if so, it is a strange type of racism. The title page of the Book of Mormon states as follows:
"Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile—Written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation—Written and sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord, that they might not be destroyed—To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof—Sealed by the hand of Moroni, and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile—The interpretation thereof by the gift of God."
"An abridgment taken from the Book of Ether also, which is a record of the people of Jared, who were scattered at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, when they were building a tower to get to heaven—Which is to show unto the remnant of the House of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that JESUS is the CHRIST, the ETERNAL God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ."
So you see, the Book of Mormon is written for the Lamanites, the Jews and the Gentiles. So much for it being a racist book of scripture. Anyone who has read the BofM would know better.
We are in a war for our very survival, yet a we find this silly crap important.
Getting to the heart of the “problem”. I couldn’t agree more.
The only disagreement is the we, in... yet a we find this silly crap important. Maybe it should read “a few, find this... to which I heartily agree.
I guess you don’t believe in Moses then?
And if Romney is smart, he'll remind everyone about how the Democrats tried to stop the freeing of the slaves, and fought hard to keep the black man down all the way through Kennedy and the equal rights amendment.
It wasn't until the Democrats learned they could win elections by pandering that they suddenly 'cared' about minorities.
That is correct. The inference being that the Ethiopian was black.
Peter had a bit more of a dust up when trying to convince the Jews that non-Jewish people could also join the christian church. God gave Peter a revelation to correct the belief of the church that only Jews could join the christian church.
Acts 11
1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.
11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man’s house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
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