That would make Joseph Smith and all the other prophets who continued in this doctrine FALSE PROPHETS!
Posted on 12/16/2007 1:01:26 PM PST by greyfoxx39
Kathryn – It seems to me that the race issue is where religion and politics most clearly intersect in Romney's case. Like it or not, if Romney becomes the Republican nominee, Democrats will bring up the "Mormon racism" charge again. You can just bet on it. But more immediately, it will be interesting to see what role, if any, it will play in voters' decisions in the primaries. The fact is, it has become a staple of political campaigns for candidates to be asked about their association with institutions that discriminate. There was a huge uproar in the 2000 campaign, for example, about George W. Bush and Bob Jones University. (Although my favorite, if trivial, example was the time Bill Clinton was asked about playing golf at an all-white country club, and he responded, with a completely straight face, that he had only played nine holes.) In any event, it's common practice to ask about country clubs, social groups, schools, etc.
The issue now is whether that kind of question also applies to Romney's church. And the problem, for Romney, is that, to my knowledge at least, he has not said simply that the LDS church was wrong to exclude blacks from the priesthood and top leadership positions before 1978. Voters don't mind it – they even like it – when a candidate says something in the past was wrong but that now it is right. But today, on "Meet the Press," Romney wouldn't say that.
-SNIP-
i asked about the revelation several weeks ago, when a few of us in the NR Washington bureau met with Mormon Elders M. Russell Ballard and Quentin L. Cook, who had come to Washington to meet with staffers of several publications. (They were concerned about the image of the church; they did not discuss Romney or his candidacy and offered no opinion on it.) When I asked why the church changed position in 1978, the answer was, if I recall correctly, that they did not know. It wasn't a flip answer; they were saying that they could not know why God had given that revelation to Kimball at that particular moment. They were not inclined to say that the church had been wrong before. That's a built-in dilemma of the system; if a church says it is led by revelation, and then says it was wrong, it's kind of like saying God was wrong.
MORE AT
You are going to hold other LDS scriptures to a higher standard than the Bible? Hmmmm....I’m starting to wonder if you really believe in the Bible after all?
If it makes you feel any better, I don’t support Obama or Huckabee.
Don’t be so hard on the poster, he’s just quoting the sloppy Mr. York. :-)
>>So, the LDS CHURCH LEADERS who do NOT “meddle in politics” met with National Review and LO! National Review ENDORSES MITT!<<
Did Ronmey say the LDS doesn’t meddle in politics? If so that was foolish of him since all churches meddle in politics.
He should have limited it to saying that as President he would not take directions from the church leaders.
Of course, you already knew he couldn't deliver.
So, of course, you also know, he will keep posting about Mormonism, in spite of your desire to prevent him from embarrasing himself any further. :-)
If you don't know anything about the Mormon religion could you be so kind as to refrain from posting and looking like an idiot?
The split between the Northern and Southern Baptist organizations was over slavery and education of slaves, and by the 18th century, about 40 percent of Southern Baptist preachers in South Carolina owned slaves. At the time of the split, the Southern Baptist group used the curse of Cain as justification of the practice. In fact, most 19th and early 20th century Southern Baptist congregations in the southern United States taught that there were two separate heavens; one for blacks, and one for whites.
The doctrine was used to support a ban on ordaining blacks to most Protestant clergies until the 1960s in the U.S. and Europe. The Coptic, Ethiopian, Orthodox, Thomasite and the Catholic church did not recognize these interpretations and did not participate in the religious movement to support them. Certain Catholic Diocese in the Southern United States did adopt a policy of not ordaining blacks to oversee, administer sacraments to, or accept confessions from white parishioners. This policy was not based on a Curse of Cain teaching, but was justified by any possible perceptions of having slaves rule over their masters. (Dictionary of African-American Slavery)
Baptists and other denominations including Pentecostals officially taught or practiced various forms of racial segregation well into the mid-to-late-20th century, though all races were accepted to worship services after the 1970s and 1980s when many official policies were changed. In fact, it wasn't until 1995, that the Southern Baptist Convention officially renounced its "racist roots." Nearly all Protestant groups in America had supported the notion that black slavery, oppression, and African colonization was the result of God's curse on people with black skin or of African descent through Cain or through the curse of Ham, and some churches practiced racial segregation as late as the 1990s, including Pentecostalism. Today, however, official acceptance and practice of the doctrine among Protestant ogranizations is limited almost exclusively to churches connected to white supremacy, such as the Aryan World Church and the New Christian Crusade Church.
Even if LeGrande is atheist he still has family members and must find if offensive that other would distort what he know of the history of the Church is being distorted by gainsayers!
You don’t comment on the video of the testamonies of blacks who have their own understanding and relationship with Jesus Chirst Church!
this does not fit your wild tales of the Church
http://www.byu.tv/index.html?start=10800&stop=14400&show=&ep=http://qmplive.xlontech.net/byutv/stream/071128.qvt
Thanks for pointing out why that is so! :-)
The Lord’s restorted Church was never racist you know not of what you speak ansel12!
There is a lot of folklore and misinformation about black members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Black Mormons not only have to deal with their own families and their own salvation, but they also have to deal with these myths that continue to be spread about blacks in the LDS church. Some of these myths include the idea that blacks are not welcome in the LDS church, or that the LDS church teaches that blacks are somehow less valiant than their white brothers and sisters.
http://www.blacklds.org/
lol, lol, lol
That would make Joseph Smith and all the other prophets who continued in this doctrine FALSE PROPHETS!
Is the bit about some sort of war on earth -— with the losers and/or people who remained neutral being darker a myth?
Joseph Smith, in particular, claimed Biblical support for slavery, and I certainly see how the mormon books can be read to state that darker-skinned people were descendants of the losers of the spiritual battle and cursed:
And [God] had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God; I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.” (2 Nephi 5:21, emphasis added)
The black skin represented their spiritual blindness and constituted the mark of the curse (see 2 Nephi 30:6).
Black skin was also associated with a curse of hot climate in Smith’s translation of the Bible, circa 1830 , which describes a pre-deluge people called the “people of Canaan” (not to be confused with Canaan, the son of Ham, or the Biblical Canaanites), who were cursed because they fought against the “people of Shum.”
“For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.” (Moses 7:8).
The Book of Abraham, part of the Pearl of Great Price, which is accepted as scripture of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints indicates that the king of Egypt was a descendent of Ham and “a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth” through Ham’s union with the woman Egyptus. The passage goes on to state, “and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.” (see http://scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/1/21,22#22)
On February 6, 1835, a prominent leader of the Mormons, W. W. Phelps, wrote a letter theorizing that the curse of Cain survived the deluge by passing through the wife of Ham, son of Noah, who according to Phelps was a descendant of Cain. (Messenger and Advocate 1:82) In addition, Phelps introduced the idea of a third curse upon Ham himself for “marrying a black wife”. (Id.) This black wife, according to Phelps, was not just a descendant of Cain, but one of the pre-flood “people of Canaan” (not directly related to the Biblical Canaanites after the flood).
Writing for the Messenger and Advocate (April 9, 1836) newspaper on the subject of slavery, Joseph Smith states:
“After having expressed myself so freely upon this subject, I do not doubt but those who have been forward in raising their voice against the South, will cry out against me as being uncharitable, unfeeling and unkind-wholly unacquainted with the gospel of Christ. It is my privilege then, to name certain passages from the bible, and examine the teachings of the ancients upon this nature, as the fact is incontrovertible, that the first mention we have of slavery is found in the holy bible, pronounced by a man who was perfect in his generation and walked with God. And so far from that prediction’s being averse from the mind of God it remains as a lasting monument of the decree of Jehovah, to the shame and confusion of all who have cried out against the South, in consequence of their holding the sons of Ham in servitude! [Specifically:]
“And he said cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem and Canaan shall be his servant.” —Genesis 9:25-27
“Trace the history of the world from this notable event down to this day, and you will find the fulfillment of this singular prophecy. What could have been the design of the Almighty in this wonderful occurrence is not for me to say; but I can say that the curse is not yet taken off the sons of Canaan, neither will be until it is affected by as great power as caused it to come; and the people who interfere the least with the decrees and purposes of God in this matter, will come under the least condemnation before him; and those who are determined to pursue a course which shows an opposition and a feverish restlessness against the designs of the Lord, will learn, when perhaps it is too late for their own good, that God can do his own work without the aid of those who are not dictate by his counsel.” - (Joseph Smith Jr., Messenger and Advocate Vol. II, No. 7, April 1836 , p. 290; History of the Church, Vol. 2, Ch. 30, pp. 436-40.)
And certainly the most stringent adherants to the original teachings of mormonism (now re-written by the current mormon church -— and this guy rejected as an extremist) still espouse these views -— In 2005, the Intelligence Report published the following statements made by Warren Jeffs, President of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints:
“The black race is the people through which the devil has always been able to bring evil unto the earth.”
“[Cain was] cursed with a black skin and he is the father of the Negro people. He has great power, can appear and disappear. He is used by the devil, as a mortal man, to do great evils.”
“Today you can see a black man with a white woman, et cetera. A great evil has happened on this land because the devil knows that if all the people have Negro blood, there will be nobody worthy to have the priesthood.”
“If you marry a person who has connections with a Negro, you would become cursed.”
It just "crept in, huh?
It started with Joseph Smith.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. (2 Peter 2:1-2 KJV)
You really did not have time to read or listen to the links I gave you!
The Blacks who are LDS historian know about this but did not interfer with their relationship with the Lord. It seems they understood the frustration leaders were feeling but like the Blacks had to wait on the Lord!
The Church has never been races, but than the Church is not of the world, which the world has a different yard stick!
Is it wise to trust your personal feelings?
Isn't this what devout Muslims and Jehovah's Witnesses do also? And no one questions their sincerity, do they?
Yet Mormons reject Islam and JW doctrine. How are their feelings so different from yours?
Earlier this evening, as you can see HERE, on this very thread, I repeated a long standing challenge concerning inaccuracies and contradictions in Mormon Scripture. I have yet to receive an answer.
That raises another question. If you can't really trust your feelings, and if you can't trust your scriptures, then how can you know that Mormonism is true?
I have come to apprecitate why some people like you are where you are and I thank the Lord for not being Yoked unevenly!
That I can followship with those who have no desire to contend over every thing, but to press forward with joy doing the will of the Lord!
And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they [American Indians] became a dark and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations (Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 12:23).I agree with your observation about misinformation.
At the time the devil was cast out of heaven, there were some spirits that did not know who had authority, whether God or the devil. They consequently did not take a very active part on either side, but rather thought the devil had been abused, . . . These spirits were not considered bad enough to be cast down to hell, and never have bodies; neither were they considered worthy of an honourable body on this earth: . . . But those spirits in heaven that rather lent an influence to the devil, thinking he had a little the best right to govern, but did not take a very active part any way were required to come into the world and take bodies in the accursed lineage of Canaan; and hence the Negro or African race. (Speech of Elder Orson Hyde, delivered before the High Priests' Quorum, in Nauvoo," April 27, 1845, printed by John Taylor, p. 30)
And for some reason, I have found www.blacklds.org to be a little less than completely forthcoming about the matter.
Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 10:110, March 8, 1863).
I recommend you check out these sites for a more complete discussion of the topic of racial bigotry and the Mormon Church:
Mormon Racism
Ten articles by ex-Mormons discussing some of the racial issues facing the LDS movement.The Curse of Cain? Racism in the Mormon Church
An online book -- well organized and well researched -- containing an in-depth analysis of the issue plus hundreds of supporting citations.
“The Lord’s restorted Church was never racist you know not of what you speak ansel12!”
What post are you responding to?
#51
#51 ? I thought that you would like that one.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.