Posted on 12/19/2007 6:59:14 AM PST by april15Bendovr
I heard recently on the Rush Limbaugh show this quote.
"What we still don't understand is why you Americans stopped the bombing of Hanoi. You had us on the ropes. If you had pressed us a little harder, just for another day or two, we were ready to surrender! It was the same at the battles of TET. You defeated us! We knew it, and we thought you knew it.
But we were elated to notice your media was definitely helping us. They were causing more disruption in America than we could in the battlefields. We were ready to surrender. You had won!"
After I used this quote I have been informed that this memoir is listed as a Urban Legend.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_general_giap.htm
Can anyone help me prove that this "False status" in itself is an urban legend?
As I recall, Gen Giap defintenitely stated that they had lost massively, the Tet Offensive, until they saw the media coverage that is.
The bombing during Linebacker I and Lb II I haven’t heard a comment on, but I would bet that it came about during the Paris “Peace” Accords if it was said at all.
Well, it may have been bogus on the absolute face of it being from Giap, but it was undoubtedly true in the sense that the long-term bombing that Nixon initiated had an effect to dampen some of the will of the NVA, because it forced them to at least talk to Kissinger in Paris about peace. However, short-term bombing never works. It didn’t work when Hitler was trying it over England; it didn’t work when Clinton was bombing the Balkans (remember them wearing target clothes). Long-term did seem to work when the U.S. 8th and 10th Army Air Corps was bombing Berlin and Germany; and to a lesser extent when Curtis Lemay was doing it to Tokyo. But LBJ never seemed to realize that his “Christmas pause” in stopping Operation Rolling Thunder only steeled the North Vietnamese and made the South Vietnamese wonder about our will. I recall an old “Papa San” telling me in the fall of 1967 in DaNang (I wasn’t there long and missed Tet): “Ho Chi Minh number one, LBJ number 10!” (1 was good, 10 was bad).
“I heard recently on the Rush Limbaugh show this quote.”
I listen to Rush everyday. I have never heard him utter something anywhere near what you attribute to him. I have heard him say (something along the line of ) it is now common knowledge to anyone that pays attentiont that we had North Vietnam on the ropes and almost defeated according to their military leaders of the time and that the greatest asset the Communists had during the Vietnam war was Walter Cronkite on the evening news every night.
The beat goes on:
By 1968, NVA morale was at its lowest point ever. The plans for “Tet” ‘68 was their last desperate attempt to achieve a success, in an effort to boost the NVA morale. When it was over, General Giap and the NVA viewed the Tet ‘68 offensive as a failure, they were on their knees and had prepared to negotiate a surrender.
At that time, there were fewer than 10,000 U.S. casualties, the Vietnam War was about to end, as the NVA was prepared to accept their defeat. Then, they heard Walter Cronkite (former CBS News anchor and correspondent) on TV proclaiming the success of the Tet ‘68 offensive by the communist NVA. They were completely and totally amazed at hearing that the US Embassy had been overrun. In reality, The NVA had not gained access to the Embassy—there were some VC who had been killed on the grassy lawn, but they hadn’t gained access.... According to [General] Giap, these distorted reports were inspirational to the NVA. They changed their plans from a negotiated surrender and decided instead, they only needed to persevere for one more hour, day, week, month, eventually the protesters in America would help them to achieve a victory they knew they could not win on the battlefield... Today, there are 58,000 names on the Vietnam Wall Memorial that was built with the donations made by the American public. Although Giap did not mention each and every protester’s name in his book, many of us will never forget the 58,000 names on the Wall. We will also never forget the names of those who helped in placing those additional 48,000 names there: Bill, Jane, Tom, Cronkite, and others. Those of us who rotated prior to Walter Cronkite’s report on “Tet-68” can clearly state, “We were still winning when I left!”— Gene Kuentzler, ‘66-67 S-3 Operations
Rush actually states he is right 98% of the time.
If the U.S. had dropped the same tonnage in bowling balls, instead of bombs, they’d never have been able to “repair” the supply routes.
You can plow the dirt that the bombs stir up, but it’s almost impossible to move tons of bowling balls.
I don't think POWs were very well situated to make this judgment.
What I meant by “long and short term” was the intensity of the bombing campaigns, rather than the duration. I believe that Rolling Thunder was a considerably longer campaign than the Nixon ones but, because of LBJ interference, Navy and USAF planners had to work in certain paramenters (i.e. not bombing Haiphong, certain areas of Hanoi, etc.)
January 27, 1973 - The Paris Peace Accords are signed by the U.S., North Vietnam, South Vietnam and the Viet Cong. Under the terms, the U.S. agrees to immediately halt all military activities and withdraw all remaining military personnel within 60 days. The North Vietnamese agree to an immediate cease-fire and the release of all American POWs within 60 days. An estimated 150,000 North Vietnamese soldiers presently in South Vietnam are allowed to remain. Vietnam is still divided. South Vietnam is considered to be one country with two governments, one led by President Thieu, the other led by Viet Cong, pending future reconciliation.
March 29, 1973 - The last remaining American troops withdraw from Vietnam as President Nixon declares "the day we have all worked and prayed for has finally come."
America's longest war, and its first defeat, thus concludes. During 15 years of military involvement, over 2 million Americans served in Vietnam with 500,000 seeing actual combat. 47,244 were killed in action, including 8000 airmen. There were 10,446 non-combat deaths. 153,329 were seriously wounded, including 10,000 amputees. Over 2400 American POWs/MIAs were unaccounted for as of 1973.
April 1973 - President Nixon and President Thieu meet at San Clemente, California. Nixon renews his earlier secret pledge to respond militarily if North Vietnam violates the peace agreement.
June 19, 1973 - The U.S. Congress passes the Case-Church Amendment which forbids any further U.S. military involvement in Southeast Asia, effective August 15, 1973. The veto-proof vote is 278-124 in the House and 64-26 in the Senate. The Amendment paves the way for North Vietnam to wage yet another invasion of the South, this time without fear of U.S. bombing.
August 9, 1974 - Richard M. Nixon resigns the presidency as result of Watergate. Gerald R. Ford is sworn in as the 38th U.S. President, becoming the 6th President coping with Vietnam.
September 1974 - The U.S. Congress appropriates only $700 million for South Vietnam. This leaves the South Vietnamese Army under-funded and results in a decline of military readiness and morale.
October 1974 - The Politburo in North Vietnam decides to launch an invasion of South Vietnam in 1975.
December 13, 1974 - North Vietnam violates the Paris peace treaty and tests President Ford's resolve by attacking Phuoc Long Province in South Vietnam. President Ford responds with diplomatic protests but no military force in compliance with the Congressional ban on all U.S. military activity in Southeast Asia
January 8, 1975 - NVA general staff plan for the invasion of South Vietnam by 20 divisions is approved by North Vietnam's Politburo. By now, the Soviet-supplied North Vietnamese Army is the fifth largest in the world. It anticipates a two year struggle for victory. But in reality, South Vietnam's forces will collapse in only 55 days.
January 14, 1975 - Testifying before Congress, Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger states that the U.S. is not living up to its earlier promise to South Vietnam's President Thieu of "severe retaliatory action" in the event North Vietnam violated the Paris peace treaty.
January 21, 1975 - During a press conference, President Ford states the U.S. is unwilling to re-enter the war.
April 21, 1975 - A bitter, tearful President Thieu resigns during a 90 minute rambling TV speech to the people of South Vietnam. Thieu reads from the letter sent by Nixon in 1972 pledging "severe retaliatory action" if South Vietnam was threatened. Thieu condemns the Paris Peace Accords, Henry Kissinger and the U.S. "The United States has not respected its promises. It is inhumane. It is untrustworthy. It is irresponsible." He is then ushered into exile in Taiwan, aided by the CIA.
April 23, 1975 - 100,000 NVA soldiers advance on Saigon which is now overflowing with refugees. On this same day, President Ford gives a speech at Tulane University stating the conflict in Vietnam is "a war that is finished as far as America is concerned."
April 27, 1975 - Saigon is encircled. 30,000 South Vietnamese soldiers are inside the city but are leaderless. NVA fire rockets into downtown civilian areas as the city erupts into chaos and widespread looting.
April 30, 1975 - At 8:35 a.m., the last Americans, ten Marines from the embassy, depart Saigon, concluding the United States presence in Vietnam. North Vietnamese troops pour into Saigon and encounter little resistance. By 11 a.m., the red and blue Viet Cong flag flies from the presidential palace. President Minh broadcasts a message of unconditional surrender. The war is over.
ping for reference
What ignorance. Pray and communism together. Hmmmmm. Did she have a full understanding? Nope, just a traitor. Ignorant traitor.
“We were elated to notice your media was definitely helping us......”Don’t know if the quote is accurate,but the essence of what he said is accurate.The North could not have won w/out the active and vigorous support of the mass media,celebrities(Fonda,Baez,etc),and leftists/marxists in our government.
Its in his biography
I’ve never understood Giap’s reputation as a brilliant General.
He beat the French garrison at Dien Bien Phu mostly because of his willingness to sacrifice his own troops and the ineptness of the French commanders. The French gave up in Indochina, largely because of the efforts of the Marxists at home and in other French Colonies.
We cleaned the Communist’s clock during Giap’s Tet ‘68 offensive and in the aftermath, essentially destroying the Vietcong in the south. After Tet '68 the Vietcong was mostly made up of Northern draftees.
Giap’s invasion of the South in 1972 was another bloody failure, and it took three years of rebuilding and the aid of the DemocRAT party for the Communists to finally succeed.
Maybe Saigon is now Ho Chi Minh City, but that has less to do with Giaps military brilliance than it does with the perfidy of the DemocRAT party and the US Legislature.
Never forget.
Michael Frazier
Then I had a 2% chance at being wrong
bump
My bad, memriors
I won't.
And a Good Morning to you, Sir.
Snopes also says American GIs were never spit on when returning from the war. People throw Snopes out there like they’re God himself. I don’t trust them though, like Wiki, I may use them for background.
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