Sure. And let's call Scientologists 'Nontraditional Muslims.' /sarc
Posted on 01/06/2008 3:22:57 AM PST by restornu
Category: Are Mormons Christian?
It has truly been a pleasure to converse — or at least take turns speaking — with Dr. Mohler. His attitude of quiet analysis is a refreshing change from the vitriol and slander that I’ve seen from so many of his denomination when they talk about my religion.
His final message is reassuring in many ways. First, his assurance that Mormons can be good citizens and should not be deprived of their right to an equal place in the American political scene should be adopted as the guideline for people of all denominations.
It is hard to think of any religion that is not persecuted somewhere. The world is full of religions because people do not agree about the nature or even the existence of divinity; yet America was founded on a commitment to the idea that differing opinions about God should not be factored into a person’s eligibility for public office.
When Dr. Mohler quotes Paul’s warning that the Church of Christ should reject “a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you,” we Mormons wholeheartedly agree. We believe, and history supports, that the “traditional Christianity” that Dr. Mohler so able explicates is remote indeed from the gospel that Paul taught.
So I am happy to accept the formulation suggested by Dr. Mohler’s last sentence: “Mormonism is not just another form of Christianity — it is incompatible with ‘traditional Christian orthodoxy.’”
Amen! Absolutely correct! We send out missionaries to every country that will allow them to enter precisely because we believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is incompatible with “traditional Christian orthodoxy.”
At the same time, we recognize that “traditional Christian orthodoxy” represents a sincere desire and effort, on the part of millions of believers throughout the world, to teach and live by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Despite our deep differences of belief over the nature of God and his plans for his children, we recognize that those who believe in the other Christian faiths have taken a giant step closer to fulfilling the intentions of our Lord. They are, in heart and mind, Christians.
We ask only the same favor in return. Let’s take that word “traditional” and make use of it. Instead of saying that we are “not Christian,” which is an obvious falsehood by any rational, widely accepted definition of the word Christian, let us agree that Mormons are “nontraditional Christians.”
We’ll live with that label quite happily, because it’s true. We are Christians, but nontraditional ones. And if we ever become traditional, we’ll have no reason to exist as a separate religion!
Meanwhile, history provides reason for optimism. The pope, while proclaiming that the Catholic Church and, despite defects, the Orthodox churches, represent the only authoritative Church of Christ, he still allows room for the “nonapostolic” Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Pentacostalists, and others that proclaim the name of Christ to be considered “Christian communities” and to have value.
It took less than 500 years for Protestantism to graduate to a “tradition” instead of a “reformation” or, in the former Catholic view, a “heresy.”
Baptists, who were once viewed as a wild-eyed sect of the American lower classes, have now been around long enough to be “traditional” right along with the older Protestant denominations.
Now we live in a world where all believers in Christ — traditional or non — are assailed and persecuted. There is no shortage of atheists in foreign countries and in America who would like to limit the ability of any believer in a revelatory religion to achieve full participation and leadership in American politics.
The intense criticism, both public and whispered, focused on President Bush precisely because he believes that God has intervened and continues to intervene in his life should be the wakeup call to all of us.
Born-again Christians and Mormons agree on this: God is alive and working in the world, and his Spirit touches the lives of the faithful, offering guidance, comfort, and even miraculous intervention. This earns Baptists and Mormons the ridicule or hatred of the anti-religious extremists, who declare that our beliefs are a form of madness and proof that we are unfit for public trust.
Call us “nontraditional Christians” and continue to encourage your communicants not to believe our doctrines; we’ll happily continue to call you “traditional Christians” and teach people why they should believe our doctrines.
But when it comes to politics, let’s make common cause to maintain the full participation in American political life of believers in a living, active God whose Spirit touches the lives of all his children.
Let’s work together to try to end the persecution of Christians throughout the world, for the enemies of Christ make no distinction between “traditional” and “nontraditional” Christians when they’re looking for targets of their fear and hatred.
On these issues, we are on the same side.
And every “traditional Christian” who, like Dr. Mohler, will include us nontraditional Christians as equally entitled to participation in all aspects of American public life, without encouraging people to vote against Mormon candidates because of their faith alone, will find that we Mormons are good friends to have in a world that is increasingly perilous for followers of Christ
CTR
There’s no such thing as a “non-traditional Christian.” Christianity is founded on Trinitarian belief, and Mormons don’t accept that, so they’re not Christians, any more than Arians were or Unitarians are.
They are an individually-founded syncretist religion that has elements taken from Christianity, just like Islam. Mormonism also has Old Testament elements and, where Islam has pagan elements, Mormonism has 19th century magical and spiritualist elements.
It retains more of Christianity than Islam did, however, and I think mainstream Mormons (not the polygamist nutcases living in bunkers in the desert) can make the transition to Christianity. I think many of them see Our Lord as a very attractive figure and I think they are drawn by this and, in some cases, would like to accept Him and shed the strange elements that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young mixed into what was originally probably intended to be a Christian revivalist movement, like the many others that cropped up all over Western New York State in the 19th century.
“Nontraditional Christian” = cult
I guess that means you have Mormonphobia
Gee, and good Mormons will one day get to be gods of their own planets.
Don't these sound familiar. I guess there is just nothing new under the sun.
Christian Spanish Inquisition Bump
Some of you people make as much sense as a Clinton follower.
Sure. And let's call Scientologists 'Nontraditional Muslims.' /sarc
Gee, and good Mormons will one day get to be gods of their own planets.
Don't these sound familiar. I guess there is just nothing new under the sun.
Ya you are so right...
Romans 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Gen3:5 is the serpent speaking to Eve. This is original sin.
Gen3:5 is the serpent speaking to Eve. This is original sin.
Eve original transgression is eating from the tree of Good and Evil which caused the fall, if there was no fall you and I would not be having this conversation!
Nor would we be choosing this day to whom we will serve!
2 Nephi 2
22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.
25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.
27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.
28 And now, my sons, I would that ye should look to the great Mediator, and hearken unto his great commandments; and be faithful unto his words, and choose eternal life, according to the will of his Holy Spirit;
29 And not choose eternal death, according to the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein, which giveth the spirit of the devil power to captivate, to bring you down to hell, that he may reign over you in his own kingdom.
30 I have spoken these few words unto you all, my sons, in the last days of my probation; and I have chosen the good part, according to the words of the prophet. And I have none other object save it be the everlasting welfare of your souls. Amen.
Mormonphobic will call us what they want!:)
So will anti-mormons, or ex-mormons, or golden contacts.
It seems you can guys name-call, but you want to restrict the rights of others. Seems kinda off to me. But what do I know. I am only a bitter exer, huh resty?
Falling Upward
According to the LDS church, “Adam fell, but he fell in the right direction... Adam fell, but he fell upward.” (Deseret News, Church Section, July 31, 1965, p. 7) Rather than bring the curse on humanity of a life of sin terminated by death, the Fall of Adam and Eve is considered a blessing in Mormonism.
In order to understand the LDS concept of the fall in the Garden of Eden we must first understand the LDS teaching of the preexistence of man. In Mormonism “pre-existence is the term commonly used to describe the premortal existence of the spirit children of God the Father.: (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 589) Mormonism teaches that as spirit children of God, we do not receive bodies until we are born on earth. However, according to the Book of Mormon Adam and Eve could not have children before the fall in the Garden of Eden (2 Nephi 2:22-23). Thus the “spirit children of God the Father” could not be born into this world and have bodies unless Adam and Eve fell. Therefore Mormons see the fall as a positive action which allowed humanity as a whole to exist.
http://www.concernedchristians.org/nocomparison_fall1.php
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the Lord weighs the motives.
So I am happy to accept the formulation suggested by Dr. Mohler’s last sentence: “Mormonism is not just another form of Christianity — it is incompatible with ‘traditional Christian orthodoxy.’”
Amen! Absolutely correct! We send out missionaries to every country that will allow them to enter precisely because we believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is incompatible with “traditional Christian orthodoxy.”
At the same time, we recognize that “traditional Christian orthodoxy” represents a sincere desire and effort, on the part of millions of believers throughout the world, to teach and live by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Despite our deep differences of belief over the nature of God and his plans for his children, we recognize that those who believe in the other Christian faiths have taken a giant step closer to fulfilling the intentions of our Lord. They are, in heart and mind, Christians.
Well said.
Can someone tell me why is it that the Church of Laterday Saints are not just saying “We are Mormons, we are different and we don’t need the Christian label?” like they have since their inception?
Why is it the LDS is fighting tooth and nail to gain the title Christian all of a sudden? Is it because it is only gaining in this country through natural growth, and no longer gaining strong through proselytizing? Is this just trying to make it easier to grab the nominal non-church going Christian, while fleeing the ‘Amway taint’ that has always hounded the Mormon church?
Is trying to crawl under the cover of the name obsfucation when the doctrines are so different between true Christianity and the LDS?
I couldn't disagree more...The last thing this, or any country needs is a muzzelim for a political leader...
And for those of us who know that God has not given up on his chosen people, the Jews, someone from any of the religions who think they have replaced Israel is unacceptable as a political leader...
We need people who will defend Israel and Israelis per God's proclamation...
TO ALL WHO WANT TO HELP US TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE ABOUT CHRIST AND HOW HE GUIDES HIS PEOPLE ON EARTH.
If this thread is like most others that have anything to do with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or as we are more often called, the Mormons, it will soon be taken over by those who, for reasons of their own, choose to put down my Church, and those of us who worship with it.
We find no problem with people who really want to talk to us about converting to their religion, we spend a lot of time doing it ourselves.
What we find offensive is when people leave out part of the truth to make a half-true lie , or when some one renames something, that we find important or sacred, so it sounds like gutter talk.
I do not know how to tell the difference all the time. There are some Handles that keep showing up, and they are easy to spot. Sometimes, though, I have given a hard and not so kind response to some who honestly care for us and our salvation.
Please forgive us if we get you mixed up.
Thanks for your time,
fred
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