Will Work for Taxes

Safe Haven ^ | Jan 8 2008 | Thee Mogambo Guru

[DeaconBenjamin]

If your house is on fire, would you tell the fire department not to respond? And if so, would the fire department be obligated to respond anyway because your burning house presents a threat to an adjacent property owner?

In my rural community, you have the choice of paying an annual fee ($30? $35?) to the local fire department, or being charged approx. $750 for a call.

[ovrtaxt]

Benefitting from a system in which she has no choice?

Care to contemplate with me on whether she’s received more than she paid in? (don’t forget inflation...)

Personally, I would LOVE to opt out of SS, but “they” won’t let me, oh no

[Alberta's Child]

You have no idea what this whole story is all about. What many of these people are looking for is a property tax system in which "retired people living on fixed incomes" can pay lower taxes simply because they: (1) can't afford to pay the taxes at their current rates; and (2) don't want to move somewhere else.

Under normal circumstances I could sympathize with someone in that position, but the agenda here is to set up a differential property tax system under which two people living in identical homes on identical pieces of property in the same jurisdiction would be taxed differently based on some arcane definition of "needs" and "capabilities." There is absolutely no place for that under a legal system based on any definition of equal protection under the law, as far as I am concerned.

[MortMan]

In NY, especially the “nicer” areas, $12K isn’t much of a house. When I was in the Binghamton area, we paid about $6K in property taxes on a 1450 sqft house situated on a 150x50 lot.

Greenburgh, IIRC, is downstate - nearer the city, in the money ‘burbs.

Just my $.02.

[Alberta's Child]

I agree with you 100%. But then the problem is the $12,000 per year property taxes, not the woman’s insufficient income. Good luck getting anyone in that town — or in the media who are covering this story — to do an in-depth story expsosing the “tax” side of the equation as the real problem here.

[Alberta's Child]

P.S. I don’t know how old you are, but when I was a kid (not that long ago) it was very rare in my circles for elderly people to live alone like this. Most of my friends who had surviving grandparents had those grandparents living in their home with them.

[Alberta's Child]

Sounds like a perfect system . . . sort of like a snow-plowing contract where you can pay a flat rate for the entire season or pay on a per-event basis.

[MortMan]

Nobody has a God-given right to live in the same place for 43+ years.

I disagree. It's the principle of property rights, which have been abridged over the years due to the local governments' need for ever expanding sums of money. Because local governments are locked out (for the most part) of the income tax scam, they scam the property taxes.

In this situation, however, I would say that the lady may best be served by moving to a lower tax state (and probably one with better climate).

[Alberta's Child]

I agree with you, but I wasn’t just talking about Social Security.

[Alberta's Child]

I would generally agree with you, but since I live in the New York City area I have long believed that the modern notion of “property rights” has been completed turned on its head. A person living in a suburban environment these days has no real “property rights” to speak of (as per one of my first posts on this thread), since the modern suburban lifestyle relies so heavily on taxpayer-subsidized amenities to begin with.

[CORedneck]

Agree.... When I was growing up, I was taught that if you wanted something, you had to work for the money in order to buy it. I don't like the concept of property taxes because you earned the money to buy a house - saved money for down-payment, pay interest to the back on the loan and then paid it off. But then you have to keep working for the money to pay the tax on it if you want to keep the house or in other words, you continually have to keep paying for it with no end in sight.

I owned a house in Indiana and the interesting thing, if you owed money on it, your property tax is 1/2 of what it would be if you had no mortgage on it. My property tax was $1700 but if I got to pay it off, it would go to $3400. Stupid.... The house I own here in Colorado, it paid for, free and clear. When the housing market comes back, I can get around $200,000 for it but the property tax is $800 per year. I pay it with one check in February.

Let’s ask this question- since when are free landowners obligated to pay tribute in order to possess something that they own free and clear? Yeah yeah, that’s the law bla bla bla. But think about it- how far have we strayed since 1776?

[sportutegrl]

Property taxes are used to fund 'education', also known as Union Jobs Program. The cost of public school education has risen astronimically compared to inflation. In my district in the northeast, we don't get to vote for property tax increases, so we pay about 30 mills, or 6000 for a 4 bed, 2000 sf, 200K house. That doesn't include almost 1K of county property taxes. The school district thinks it has to raise taxes every year faster than inflation, despite the fact that we have a declining student enrollment and soaring property value increases.

Our school district is spending almost 20K per student, now. We could afford a gold plated private school for that money.

One thing not mentioned about property taxes is the subjectiveness of it. A local politician, whose home was conservatively estimated to be worth over 1 million dollars, listed as worth 100K on the tax rolls.

[ml/nj]

Old enough. The sales tax began in NY State on Aug 1, 1965, which was the day after I bought my first car. I certainly remember a few grandparents living in the same houses where my friends lived, but it was hardly the norm. My grandparents visited often when I was young, but they always returned to their apartments in NYC after they did.

ML/NJ

[ml/nj]

the property tax is $800 per year

I wonder what you lack that I get for my twelve grand!

ML/NJ

[DeaconBenjamin]

Subscribing has a further incentive with a corresponding reduction in house insurance rates.

[Alberta's Child]

A local politician, whose home was conservatively estimated to be worth over 1 million dollars, listed as worth 100K on the tax rolls.

If true, then that should be used as a campaign issue against this jack@ss. If people still vote for him anyway, then you may as well move out of that town because it's filled with morons who will ultimately render your property worthless anyway.

[CORedneck]

Here are the amenities. I am located in Colorado Springs. We have some trails to use, police & fire, good school system, nehghborhood parks. We use to be a conservative state compared to NJ but unfortunately, that is changing with californication that has been going on for the past 12 years.

> the property tax is $800 per year

I wonder what you lack that I get for my twelve grand!

ML/NJ

[sportutegrl]

It’s in Philadelphia, they would vote for a turd as long as it had a D next to it.

[ottbmare]

...when I was a kid (not that long ago) it was very rare in my circles for elderly people to live alone like this. Most of my friends who had surviving grandparents had those grandparents living in their home with them.

That's sweet. Apparently this lady does not have that advantage, however. Perhaps her children moved to San Francisco for a job opportunity; perhaps she wasn't blessed with children; perhaps a daughter-in-law isn't fond of her and doesn't want Mom living with her. Or perhaps, like me, she loves her home and garden and does not want to have to live in someone else's basement. Who knows.

So where is it, exactly, that you are suggesting she move, now that local government is chasing her out of her home? Since all of downstate New York has high property tax rates, she would have to move out of the area altogether. Away from friends, relatives, a place she knows? Why should she do that MERELY BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT OF WESTCHESTER COUNTY CONSISTS OF LEFTISTS WHO WANT TO STEAL AND SPEND EVERY PENNY THEY CAN LAY THEIR HANDS ON?

Trust me, no matter how high the tax rate is, the government there will want to spend more.

Wait a minute. I thought I'd signed up with a conservative forum that was opposed to taxation. You write like a tax-and-spend liberal. Does it really seem reasonable to you that a homeowner should have to pay at this ridiculous rate every year? What happened to the conservative notion of low taxes and low government involvement?

[ml/nj]

I have no trails, save the ones I might blaze through my half acre or so of woods. We have no parks, unless one counts the several sports fields that the kids use for Little League &. Fire here is volunteer and at least partially supported by contributions. I'm getting screwed!(But then, I already knew that before reading this thread.)

ML/NJ