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The FairTax Crowd Answers Jerry Bowyer
realclearmarkets.com ^ | January 11, 2008 | Louis R. Woodhill

Posted on 01/13/2008 5:16:11 AM PST by Man50D

In a piece published on January 9th for Townhall, economics writer Jerry Bowyer posed some common questions about the FairTax. The FairTax would replace personal income taxes, payroll taxes, capital gains taxes, corporate income taxes, and the death tax with a national retail sales tax. The FairTax has become a prominent subject for discussion as Mike Huckabee, its leading advocate among the presidential candidates, has risen to the top of the national polls.

In politics, as in life, “context” (which could also be called, “basic point of view” or “the framing of the issue”) trumps “content” (in this case, the specific factual questions asked). However, let me first address the “content” of Mr. Bowyer’s questions.

Q. Why do you think that a sales tax is less prone to corruption and complexity than an income tax?

A. There are three major reasons that the FairTax would be less problematic than an income tax:

1. It applies to actual transactions where money changes hands, rather than “income”, which is a concept so abstract as to be almost ethereal. Most of the 60,000-page U.S. tax code deals with the definition of “income”. 2. There would be only about 20 million entities that would need to file FairTax returns, compared with 140 million who must file income tax returns now. 3. At the proposed 23% (inclusive) rate, the FairTax rate is much lower than the current 35% top tax rates on personal and corporate income. The lower the rate, the less incentive for avoidance, evasion, and special pleading.

Q. Are sales taxes, where they are currently in operation, simple and free from special interest lobbying?

A. Nothing in the manifested universe is perfect, but sales taxes are, in practice, simpler and less prone to special interest lobbying than income taxes. Right now, the huge Washington lobbying industry on K Street gets half of its revenue from lobbying the income tax code.

Q. Does it apply to non-profits?

A. The FairTax applies to retail sales of new goods and services. If a non-profit sells new goods and services, it will collect the FairTax on them. However, in general, charity involves giving things away, not selling them. Also, the FairTax would eliminate the payroll taxes that non-profits pay under current law.

Q. Are used goods, non-taxable?

A. Yes—the FairTax applies only to sales of new goods and services. However, the nation as a whole obviously cannot replace newly-produced goods with used goods. If I sell you my car, I don’t have it anymore. All of the new parts and labor that would go into “rehabilitation” and “refurbishment” of used items would be subject to the FairTax. This having been said, the FairTax would shift U.S. GDP from current consumption toward investment and exports. Most economists would applaud such a move.

Q. What about the transition period?

A. People respond to incentives, and there would be an incentive to delay income and accelerate spending ahead of the FairTax effective date. This could well result in a short-term increase in debt. However, debt will be easier to repay under the FairTax because people will have more take-home pay. This aside, America has been around for 232 years. There are many things that could be done to ease the transition, and it makes no sense to avoid a change with huge long-term benefits because of one-year transition effects.

Q. Isn’t it true that the rate is not really 23% but 30% at least, because it’s tax-inclusive?

A. Yes and no. Both the FairTax and the income tax can be stated as either an “inclusive” or an “exclusive” rate. For an “apples to apples” comparison with the rates of our existing tax system, the 23% “inclusive” FairTax rate is the correct number to use.

Q. How do we determine the interest portion of mortgage payment?

A. Interest above the rate on 10-year Treasury bonds is subject to the FairTax. This will prevent suppliers from discounting prices and making it up with high interest rates on financing. The 10-year Treasury rate is a market-determined interest rate that is not targeted by the Federal Reserve.

Having addressed the “content” of Mr. Bowyer’s questions, I would like to turn to the more fundamental issue of “context”.

A “contextual” question that shapes a person’s entire experience of life is, “Is the glass of life half empty, or is the glass of life half full?” Think about the people you know and you will see that this is true.

The analogous political question is, “Is the glass of America half empty, or is the glass of America half full?” The FairTax is an expansive, optimistic, “half full” concept. It has a natural appeal to people for whom the glass of life, and the glass of America, is half full. The FairTax speaks to “possibility” rather than “fear”.

I do not know Mr. Bowyer personally, so all I can say is that his questions about the FairTax struck me as coming from a “half empty” point of view. This was not surprising to me. Most “elite opinion”, including virtually the entire Mainstream Media, has embraced the “the glass of America is half empty” point of view and has dedicated itself to proving this position right.

The FairTax is about America’s future. When it comes to matters pertaining to the future, facts and logic cannot bridge the gulf between hope and fear, the chasm between “half empty” and “half full”. All we can do is to pose the question to the American people and let them decide.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: biggovernment; entitlement; fairtax; fairtaxscam; federalsalestax; huckabee; huckster; inflation; scam
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You can read more about The Fair Tax at The FairTax.org website.
1 posted on 01/13/2008 5:16:13 AM PST by Man50D
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To: ancient_geezer; Taxman; pigdog; Principled; EternalVigilance; phil_will1; kevkrom; n-tres-ted; ...

Fair Tax ping!


2 posted on 01/13/2008 5:16:55 AM PST by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it! Duncan Hunter is a Cosponsor.)
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To: Man50D
Would you trust someone pedaling a 30% sales tax as a 23% sales tax?

Would you say "That sounds fair, you're a very trustworthy fellow"?

One man, one vote, one tax bill. Everyone equal under the law.

3 posted on 01/13/2008 5:26:14 AM PST by Mark was here (Hard work never killed anyone, but why take the chance?)
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To: Mark was here
Would you trust someone pedaling a 30% sales tax as a 23% sales tax?

I wouldn't trust someone who pedals the dollar amount collected with the 30% tax exclusive rate with the Fair Tax as if it will be more than the amount collected with the 23% tax inclusive rate with the income tax. The truth is the dollar amount collected from former rate will be the same as the latter rate.
4 posted on 01/13/2008 5:36:20 AM PST by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it! Duncan Hunter is a Cosponsor.)
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To: All

I find it interesting that the opponents of the Fair Tax would want to keep the Karl Marx Income Tax.

Yes, Karl Marx is the father of income tax

I am no Huckabee fan, but the FairTax is a much better way to raise revenue without punishing achievement.

I dont know about you, but a tax proposed by John Linder and Neal Boortz is a helluva lot better than a tax proposed by Karl Marx


5 posted on 01/13/2008 5:36:36 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Duncan Hunter: The Man Who Should Be President)
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To: Man50D
Mr. Bowyer seems to be getting a lot of undeserved attention lately. He recently published an article Fair Tax Flaws in the Wall Street Journal which inspired a FR thread. In it he says "I'm a recovering tax accountant (and not a good one at that) and I've got 50 ways to avoid this tax swimming around in my head. What about the really smart guys?"

So, what is Bowyer's claim to fame and what gives him any credibility on this subject?

6 posted on 01/13/2008 5:42:50 AM PST by foxfield
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To: Mark was here
Would you trust someone pedaling a 30% sales tax as a 23% sales tax?

30% to start with, with no cap.

7 posted on 01/13/2008 5:45:43 AM PST by Mojave
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To: Man50D
You could go up to 99% of all the taxpayers and ask them what 23% inclusive of $100.00 is and they are going to say, "What in the heck are you talking about?"

Flim-flam from the get go, is a clear warning to stay away from the peddler.

8 posted on 01/13/2008 5:47:15 AM PST by Mark was here (Hard work never killed anyone, but why take the chance?)
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To: Man50D
Woodhill's article says

In a piece published on January 9th for Townhall, economics writer Jerry Bowyer posed some common questions about the FairTax.

I cannot find anything on Townhall.com by Bowyer for that date. Am I missing something?

9 posted on 01/13/2008 5:51:18 AM PST by foxfield
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
I find it interesting that the opponents of the Fair Tax would want to keep the Karl Marx Income Tax. Yes, Karl Marx is the father of income tax

A national American income tax was first proposed during the War of 1812. Karl Marx was born in 1818.

Fair Taxers live to lie.

10 posted on 01/13/2008 5:51:44 AM PST by Mojave
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To: Mark was here

“One man, one vote, one tax bill. Everyone equal under the law.”

I saw this on another thread, yesterday, and a responder called you on it. I’m wondering if you’ve crafted an appropriate response to his/her questions?

Just what do you mean by this? Everyone pays the same amount? Every person over 18? Regardless of income and other circumstances? What amount?


11 posted on 01/13/2008 5:56:32 AM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion...)
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To: Mark was here
You could go up to 99% of all the taxpayers and ask them what 23% inclusive of $100.00 is and they are going to say, "What in the heck are you talking about?"

Thank you for illustrating the deception perpetrated by the income tax with hidden taxes at each stage of production. It is the biggest flim flam based on the premise out of sight out of mind. The transparency of The Fair Tax by itemizing the tax externally from the price will end the deceptive practice of the income tax and let people know what they are actually paying in taxes. We will stay clear of the IRS peddler once we abolish it with The Fair Tax!
12 posted on 01/13/2008 5:57:32 AM PST by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it! Duncan Hunter is a Cosponsor.)
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To: All

skip the BS sales pro sales tax propaganda

go to http://www.thomas.gov type in “fair tax” and read HR 25

Read the prebate rules,
REGISTRATION WITH THE GOVERNMENT for all people who buy or sell anything,
the draconian record keeping,
the criminal penalties for not giving or havin a reciept (ala europe)
The TAXABLE interest

the more you read of the actual proposal the more insane it becomes.

The IRS must go/change, this is not the way to do it. It only grows the government bureacracy.


13 posted on 01/13/2008 5:57:37 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Mojave
Fair Taxers live to lie.

Don't let the Church of Scientology hear you say that!

14 posted on 01/13/2008 5:57:54 AM PST by Mark was here (Hard work never killed anyone, but why take the chance?)
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To: foxfield
Found it. Woodhill is referring to Bowyer's Townhall post.
15 posted on 01/13/2008 5:58:25 AM PST by foxfield
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To: foxfield

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/JerryBowyer/2008/01/11/answers_for_the_fairtax_faction


16 posted on 01/13/2008 5:59:26 AM PST by Mojave
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To: Man50D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3F6UqyvUmE


17 posted on 01/13/2008 5:59:34 AM PST by kjam22 (see me play the guitar here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noHy7Cuoucc)
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To: Mojave

“with no cap”

True enough. But, the Income Tax started out at something like 1%, didn’t it?
Regardless of the form of the taxation, if we (the people) allow it to rise to onerous levels, that would be our fault. Our fault for not holding accountable our elected officials to represent us within the confines of the US Constitution.
The FT, at least, puts the tax on the consumption side, over which we have some measure of control.


18 posted on 01/13/2008 6:00:05 AM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion...)
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To: PubliusMM
But, the Income Tax started out at something like 1%, didn’t it?

The Fair Tax universal welfare payments scheme would start out at 30%,

19 posted on 01/13/2008 6:04:09 AM PST by Mojave
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To: Mojave

OK...I’ll bite. How do you get that?


20 posted on 01/13/2008 6:05:27 AM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion...)
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