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Army runs out of machine guns
The Sun (UK) ^ | February 6, 2008 | TOM NEWTON DUNN

Posted on 02/06/2008 2:55:04 PM PST by Leisler

THE Army has run out of machine guns, The Sun can reveal.

The crisis is unlikely to be solved before JUNE, a leaked report reveals.

British troops “desperately” need 400 of the jumbo 0.5in calibre heavy machine guns – the weapon most acutely missed.

The Army has also run out of the 7.62mm GPMG and Minimis.

Supply has collapsed partly because of a dispute with the manufacturers, Manroy – which also provides weapons to Saudi Arabia.

The leaked report – prepared for the Army’s command centre in Wilton, Wilts – reveals that generals have urged the Ministry of Defence “to prevent Manroy delivering Saudi weapons ahead of our requirement”.

Generals asked the US to help but were snubbed by the Pentagon – who have dubbed British colleagues “The Borrowers”.

The report says: “We are trying to get 400 guns transferred from the US. However, the material was provided by US DoD and they are not prepared to release them. MoD-level engagement is needed to try and get these released.”

The crisis is having a crippling effect on training in the UK – with all available spares being rushed to war zones.

Almost HALF the Minimi Light Machine Guns used at Catterick and Brecon are also out of commission.

The report adds: “The original spares package was inadequate and usage has been far above that expected. As a result stocks are very fragile.”

Tory MP and ex-Army officer Patrick Mercer said last night: “Thank God the Army have still got their bayonets – it looks like they may be all they’ll have left. This could have been dealt with months ago.

“Yet again, our fighting men are being imperilled by MoD incompetence.”

Last night an MoD spokeswoman insisted: “We have enough guns for operations.

“We recognised a need to increase overall supply and took steps to address this.”


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: afganistan; banglist; iraq; nato; supplylines; uktroops; wot
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1 posted on 02/06/2008 2:55:13 PM PST by Leisler
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To: Leisler

Israel has some Uzi’s they can sell...


2 posted on 02/06/2008 2:57:25 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Leisler

Yep, don’t cha know it, I don’t have near enough guns that start with a .5 .


3 posted on 02/06/2008 2:58:34 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Leisler
That’ll be okay with the Huckster.

The Huckster doesn’t like Bush’s “arrogant bunker mentality”. As for cray Mc Pain in the arse, his stance is anyones guess on any given day.

4 posted on 02/06/2008 2:59:11 PM PST by nmh (Mike Huckabee the "religious" humanist that pushes socialism! (Clinton/Carter combo))
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To: Leisler

Sounds like they could use some M-2s.


5 posted on 02/06/2008 2:59:17 PM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution ? 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Leisler

What? The Brits think it’s Lend Lease time again?


6 posted on 02/06/2008 3:00:20 PM PST by PeteB570 (NRA - Life member and Black Rifle owner)
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To: Leisler

I’m sure FN would make ya some Minimis. Write the check, mate.


7 posted on 02/06/2008 3:01:10 PM PST by gundog (John McCain is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.)
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To: Leisler

Paying too much Social money to multi wife Muslims? Cut your social programs and buy more defense.


8 posted on 02/06/2008 3:02:31 PM PST by bmwcyle (the Beltway crowd is like a bunch of women who have started menstruating together)
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To: Leisler
Well don't tell everybody!
9 posted on 02/06/2008 3:03:11 PM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Leisler

Seem to remember that the number of British troops have been decreasing in Iraq.....but yet they are out of guns.....are they giving them away?


10 posted on 02/06/2008 3:05:37 PM PST by illiac (If we don't change directions soon, we'll get where we're going)
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To: Leisler
Last night an MoD spokeswoman insisted:

Must take a special kind of person to have a well-paying job and lie like that. Note to self: never date a woman who's a "spokesperson"; she can lie without raising a single pulse beat.

11 posted on 02/06/2008 3:06:07 PM PST by Clock King (Bring the noise!)
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To: Leisler

Tell their soldiers to start capturing enemy weapons and use those.


12 posted on 02/06/2008 3:07:20 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: TC Rider

Are they still manufactured or are they using existing stocks?


13 posted on 02/06/2008 3:11:00 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Leisler

“The Borrowers!”

Wonder where that attitude comes from? Has the US recently provided a lot of material on loan to the UK?

Despite the intense annoyance that comes from rubbing each other the wrong way from time to time, it is a little bit disappointing to read that DoD is not being very helpful to our ally. However, as intensely as we are using these same weapons at present, maybe there is just not enough of them to go around.


14 posted on 02/06/2008 3:12:20 PM PST by Captain Rhino ( If we have the WILL to do it, there is nothing built in China that we cannot do without.)
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To: Leisler
Photobucket

Now, that's quite silly!

15 posted on 02/06/2008 3:12:48 PM PST by rfp1234 (Phodopus campbelli: household ruler since July 2007.)
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To: Captain Rhino
However, as intensely as we are using these same weapons at present, maybe there is just not enough of them to go around.

It's not too much to ask for the Brits to supply their own weapons.

16 posted on 02/06/2008 3:14:38 PM PST by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Leisler

Same thing happened leading up to WWII. Years of restrictive gun laws had deprived the populace of any serious firepower. Hitler was threatening to invade, and no one had guns to resist him. So they put in a call to Uncle Sugar: “Send us lots of guns, please (for free, of course!)”

Immediately after the war, they rounded them all up and melted them down, picking up with their restrictive gun laws, right where they left off. Now, guess what? They’ve got no guns again! So, please surrender your next five paychecks to the gubmint so we can send our British friends some guns — no charge, of course.


17 posted on 02/06/2008 3:18:28 PM PST by LibWhacker ("I don't like prison. They have the wrong types of bars in there." Charles Bukowski)
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To: Leisler
I could lend them a couple of mine, but They’d have to pawn that loudmouth prince as collateral.
18 posted on 02/06/2008 3:21:57 PM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: Leisler

Perhaps we need a new “PLEASE SEND A GUN TO DEFEND A BRITISH HOME” program.


19 posted on 02/06/2008 3:22:34 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: Leisler
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

20 posted on 02/06/2008 3:23:32 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist )
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To: Leisler
The Army ran out of Minimi Guns?


21 posted on 02/06/2008 3:24:53 PM PST by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: Leisler

Sorry, but I can’t loan them any of mine.


22 posted on 02/06/2008 3:26:59 PM PST by Kirkwood
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To: Leisler
Why would British troops need guns of any kind? Good British citizens aren't allowed to have guns and now there is no crime, no murders, robberies or anything to worry about.

And it's not like England has ever been attacked before nor will it ever be. WWII? Never happened. Winston Churchill? It's more obvious every year that he was nothing more than a myth while Chamberlain was the greatest statesman the world has ever known.

Besides, if there ever would be trouble, the muslims will come to Britain's rescue and make everything all better again.

23 posted on 02/06/2008 3:36:39 PM PST by GBA ( God Bless America!)
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To: Kirkwood

Hillary, Obama and Johnny will be along in a few months to relieve you of your weapons, your “extra” money and your freedom of speech. I feel safer already!


24 posted on 02/06/2008 3:39:04 PM PST by GBA ( God Bless America!)
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To: mamelukesabre
Not quite as bad as the Stalingrad method of giving ye defenders a few rounds and sending them on attack knowing the guns of dead comrades lie ahead and a machine gun is at your back.

Hmmm...ran out of breath typing and reading that one.

25 posted on 02/06/2008 3:39:33 PM PST by mcshot (Missing my grade school desk which protected from nuclear blasts.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
Are they still manufactured or are they using existing stocks?

That Minimi they want is our M249 SAW, still made by FN.

26 posted on 02/06/2008 3:40:57 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: GBA

“Hillary, Obama and Johnny will be along in a few months to relieve you of your weapons...

They have to find them first.


27 posted on 02/06/2008 3:44:48 PM PST by Kirkwood
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To: Kirkwood

Same here.


28 posted on 02/06/2008 3:49:26 PM PST by GBA ( God Bless America!)
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To: LibWhacker
So they put in a call to Uncle Sugar: “Send us lots of guns, please (for free, of course!)”

Oh...it wasn't free. Britain had to give America a great deal. Just not in cash.

29 posted on 02/06/2008 3:49:42 PM PST by Androcles (All your typos are belong to us)
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To: Leisler
I find it incredible that the U.K., the former home to the great Royal Ordnance system, is now down to begging just to borrow a few machine guns?

I hope that this will serve to remind us all as to how far a great power can fall in such a short period of time.

30 posted on 02/06/2008 3:50:54 PM PST by snowsislander
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To: TC Rider

So is a Ma Deuce called a Mum Deuce in Britain?


31 posted on 02/06/2008 3:53:47 PM PST by hawkboy (RINOS only deliver for the left!)
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To: Leisler
Hey Folks,
This is the "SUN" newspaper. Page two is normally true to life. Everything else in this rag you should take with a grain of salt.
A Big Grain of Salt.
Quote about "the borrowers", 99.99% chance it was made up.
These folks would make Dan Rather blush.
32 posted on 02/06/2008 4:01:39 PM PST by SWO
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To: Leisler
Nothing funny about it. This is exactly where we will be soon. Earlier in the week someone posted a list of all of our combat aircraft that need IMMEDIATE fixing or replacing. The next few years is going to be shockingly expensive just to keep what we have. I’m sure Obama and Hillary are all over that.

The UK and the rest of Europe has been getting by the cheap on national defense because we have been there to take up the slack. All there monies have gone to social programs and there simply are none left for national defense. It’s exactly where we are headed in 2009. Hold on to your girdles.

33 posted on 02/06/2008 4:01:59 PM PST by Dogbert41
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To: Anti-Bubba182

I’m not sure if anyone is making new M2s, but I bet there are 10 of thousands in cosmoline somewhere.


34 posted on 02/06/2008 4:02:46 PM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution ? 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: TC Rider

I heard that somewhere also, but I am not sure. No doubt more could be made if needed.


35 posted on 02/06/2008 4:05:11 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: TC Rider
I’m not sure if anyone is making new M2s, but I bet there are 10 of thousands in cosmoline somewhere.

I hope you're right, but I'm willing to guess that either Clinton had them melted into scrap, or some Pentagon officer ordered them destroyed. He then tried to get a job with whoever was attempting to design a replacement that decade.
36 posted on 02/06/2008 4:08:02 PM PST by Tailback
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To: TC Rider
General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products would love to sell you as many brand new Ma Duces as you like.
37 posted on 02/06/2008 4:14:14 PM PST by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: Leisler

I'd be happy to store a couple of M2s for 'em. Heck, I'd even clean 'em and make sure they were operable every so often. They need 'em, I just pop 'em down to Fedex. Signature required, of course.

38 posted on 02/06/2008 4:26:38 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: PeteB570

We’re doin it with aircraft, seems they ran out of Nimrods....


39 posted on 02/06/2008 4:28:54 PM PST by Uriah_lost (This space closed for a respectful mourning period...)
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To: Leisler
Photobucket 90 years old and still going strong.
40 posted on 02/06/2008 4:45:11 PM PST by yarddog (`)
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To: Leisler
The Army has also run out of the 7.62mm GPMG and Minimis.

Supply has collapsed partly because of a dispute with the manufacturers, Manroy – which also provides weapons to Saudi Arabia.

Doesn't Britain have a history of arming enemies before equiping their own troops?

I know; S.A. is our friend. How do I know? GWBush tells me so.

41 posted on 02/06/2008 6:37:18 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: mcshot
I read somewhere that when the ruskies really got desperate, they sent hoards of new recruits after german soldiers with orders to capture all weapons. The catch was that only every other russian soldier had a firearm. The ones without firearms were instructed to follow one with a firearm and pick it up when the guy got shot. And in some instances I guess they sent soldiers after germans WITHOUT weapons at all. A thousand unarmed soldiers were ordered to charge 50 or so germans and take their weapons from them...with their bare hands.
42 posted on 02/06/2008 6:38:49 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

No, the British are not allowed to have firearms for self defense.

Which is why when needed, they will whine that no one loves them.


43 posted on 02/06/2008 6:43:37 PM PST by alarm rider ("The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -)
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To: Clock King

Add cops to your “never date” list. They are reported to be impervious to lie detector tests.


44 posted on 02/06/2008 6:44:08 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: Captain Rhino
it is a little bit disappointing to read that DoD is not being very helpful to our ally.

Depends on which ally you mean.

The one surreptiously building training camps for Taliban fighters in Afghanistan; or, the one raiding & invading our southern border?

Didn't we give 'sell' all of our 'spares' to Vicente, to give to the drug cartels, to better shoot our Border Patrolmen

45 posted on 02/06/2008 6:46:19 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (If Liberalism doesn't kill me, I'll live 'till I die!)
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To: Leisler
The once Great Britten cannot supply heavy machine guns to their Army. Dang what is the world coming too? It’s a rhetorical question.
46 posted on 02/06/2008 6:55:24 PM PST by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
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To: Dogbert41
Is this what you were referring to or is it worse than I thought?

Original Message -——
From: Michael M. Dunn
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:22 AM
Subject: Note from AFA President — A/C Restrictions and CSAF White Paper

January 16, 2008
AFA members and Congressional Staffers, many of you have commented favorably on the “elevator speech numbers” I sent you.

It’s January ... so here are some revealing data on the “State of the Air Force.”

Fighter Aircraft - average age: 20 years; average flight hours 5400+

Bomber Aircraft - average age: 32 years; average flight hours 11,400+

Tanker aircraft - average age: 44 years; average flight hours 18,900+

C2 Fleet - average age: 22 years old; average flight hours 32,000

ISR Fleet (excluding UAV) - average age: 30 years old; average flight hours 18,000

Key Groundings/Restrictions

F-15A-D - 163 of 441 are grounded for structural issues

B-52 - 6 are grounded - past due PDM grounding date - authorized a one-time flight to the bone-yard.

EC-130 - 2 of 14 are grounded due to center wing box cracks

C-130E - 3 are grounded and 13 are restricted due to Service life and wing cracks

KC-135Es - 26 of 86 are grounded due to engine strut corrosion.

AC-130U - 4 of 17 are restricted due to lack of 30MM weapons

B-2 - entire fleet is restricted due to windshield bolt hole cracks

C-5s - 39 of 108 are restricted due to crown skin restrictions (weight limiting)

Additionally:

219 of 223 F-15Es have training restrictions due to vertical stab structural issues

Majority of Block 25/30/32, block 40/42, and block 50/52 F-16s need structural modifications

All 356 A-10s will need new wings and new aircraft skin - many have landing gear issues ... and all need new engines.

C-130Hs have Center Wing Box issues

C-32As have bulkhead structural issues.

Looking across the FYDP - between 2008-2013 - the Air Force will divest itself of 749 aircraft and procure only 698 aircraft (260 of which are UAVs).

To give you the idea of the scale of all of this:

When the AF grounded its 600+ F-15 fleet, it grounded more aircraft than the entire F/A Navy. The F-15s it presently has grounded equate to a bit more than 3 aircraft carriers of aircraft.

The 356 A-10s that need renovations equates to more aircraft than the fixed wing USMC

The Air Force has about 5800 aircraft ... and presently about one-third are either grounded or restricted in one way or another
The central important part of this data is that this is not a third-world Air Force ... And the question we should ask ourselves, why don’t we fund it to ensure our children and grandchildren are safe and secure?

2nd Subject -

Chief of Staff White Paper - Gen Moseley published an exceptional White Paper ... which lays out the strategic foundations for the Air Force of the future. If you haven’t seen it, you can find it on the AFA website: http://dailyreport.afa.org/NR/rdonlyres/868196FC-AABB-4230-84EA-F5358B0C4B34/0/CSAF_white_paper.pdf

My favorite quotes in it are:

“No modern war has been won without air superiority. No future war will be won without air, space and cyberspace superiority.” Page 2.

“With the oldest inventory in history, battered by 17 years of continuous combat, the Air Force’s ability to fulfill its missions is already being tested.” Page 2

“... our reliance on assured access to space will increase exponentially.” Page 8

“The Air Force is smaller in December 2007 than it was in December 1941.” Page 10
For your consideration.

Mike

Michael M. Dunn, Lt Gen (Ret)
AFA President/CEO

47 posted on 02/06/2008 8:06:53 PM PST by B4Ranch (("Life is a food chain; if you're not at the top, you're on the menu." ))
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To: LibWhacker

Screw Great Britain. Eventually, New York City will be renamed as New London.


48 posted on 02/06/2008 8:14:53 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
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To: rfp1234
“No, the whole premise is silly, and it’s very badly written.”
49 posted on 02/06/2008 8:23:00 PM PST by dighton
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To: Leisler

All they need is 400 guns? Heck, for some American citizens that’s a small collection. lol


50 posted on 02/06/2008 8:34:13 PM PST by TigersEye (McCain is unfit for office. See my profile page.)
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