Posted on 03/24/2008 11:12:54 AM PDT by Wuli
"Today I endorse Barack Obama for president of the United States. I believe him to be a person of integrity, intelligence and genuine good will. I take him at his word that he wants to move the nation beyond its religious and racial divides and to return United States to that company of nations committed to human rights. I do not know if his earlier life experience is sufficient for the challenges of the presidency that lie ahead."
(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...
what i hate is how easily so many catholics align themselves with marxists
a Catholic, as an individual, receives not any hate from me
their positions, on matters of so-called ‘social justice’ receive its just rebuke from me
Mr. Kmiec: “Today I endorse Barack Obama for president of the United States. I believe him to be a person of integrity, intelligence and genuine good will...”
Mr. Kmeic I defend your right to say that.
Having said that, you, sir, are an idiot.
Bravo El Cid.
Here is a more enlightened position of what Christians should have for Fauxbama’s Marxist Church and the teachings of liberation theology:
http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=2Peter+2
Yeah, right. Whatever.
There is a fine line between Catholic social justice and liberation theology (which is heresy)which many Catholics cross to justify their godless liberal ideas.
I wouldn’t doubt it, but do you know that for a fact? (Not that it matters to some Catholics . . . almost all the Kennedys, Kerry, Leahy, Daschle, Biden, etc.)
Please see Post#31. Your answer is there.
“There is a fine line between Catholic social justice and liberation theology (which is heresy)which many Catholics cross to justify their godless liberal ideas.”
it is a ‘line’ that many Catholic intellectuals have morphed into a distinction without a practical difference in the political arena or in national government economic policy
putting a theological spin on robbing from some to give to others does not make it any less marxist
“it is a ‘line’ that many Catholic intellectuals have morphed into a distinction without a practical difference in the political arena or in national government economic policy
putting a theological spin on robbing from some to give to others does not make it any less marxist.”
You are 100% correct about this and these heretics need to be brought to task.
This is sticky. Is excommunication simply a mortal sin that can be forgiven in the confessional? I don’t think so. What makes him excommunicant rather than simply unable to receive communion is the public acknowledgment of his public disobedience—which may or may not follow. If he lives in the Diocese of Santa Fe, it may well follow. If he doesn’t, who knows?
Point well taken here. Of course it has something to do with Catholicism or the description wouldn’t have appeared in the headline. But it’s an argumentam ad auctoritas (I think that’s the term), a classical logic fallacy, claiming, in this case, that the arguer’s religion, degrees, profession, and/or place of employment validate his simple claim (”I’m voting for Obama because . . .”). In that respect, it has nothing to do with Catholicism or U. S. Constitutional Law, or Catholic University, or common sense.
“You are 100% correct about this and these heretics need to be brought to task.”
that - bringing “these heretics” “to task”
does not now and, as far as i can see, is not about to occur at any major Catholic education institution in America
so, when will the faithful in the parish pews recognize it and do something about it?
I’ve already stipulated that he is a Catholic. But what are you citing that this decision is based in Catholicism? Otherwise, how would Kmiec have been such a conservative for his adult life prior to yesterday?
The time is now.
There doesn't have to be.
I think your argument is an “argumentam ad auctoritas”
someone states an opinion
and states where they see, in their thinking, intellectual foundation for taking that opinion
yet, to you
that foundation (KMIEC’S CATHOLICISM) is not part of the source, in them, of their opinion
which says you know their mind better than they do
(they know not what they think)
or, as i said, you have made an “argumentam ad auctoritas”
You raise an interesting question: how are Catholics (or other religious believers) counted in a census?
Each Catholic parish keeps permanent documentation of baptisms, confirmations, marriages, and burials. This does not amount to a "membership list" for the parish, since obviously most people are not baptized, confirmed, married and buried at the same parish, the same diocese, or even the same country.
A parish census is, as far as I know, no more than a print-out of who's on the parish mailing list, i.e. who gets sent a notice that Council of Catholic Women is having a bake sale to support the Pregnancy Aid Center, the Parish Nurse is reminding everybody to get a flu shot, etc.
My husband has been getting these mailings for years, even though he is not a Catholic; and I have NOT been getting them although I have been a member of the parish for 19 years--- an omission probably explained by the fact that I make my weekly donations by cash and not by check.
As to the matter of excommunication latae sentenciae -- one incurs automatic excommunication, for example, by procuring an abortion, but nobody has ever polled the parish to find out who has had an abortion, nor is there a system of surveillance and informers, so how would anyone know?
Like everything else in the Church, the whole thing is based on voluntary compliance. In fact, it always amazes me that some people think the Catholic Church is a hyper-legalistic institution, when in fact it is run on the basis of reasonably efficient anarchy.
Private polling does little better, since Gallup and Zogby and the New York Times typically ask people what religion they "identify with," or what religion "they were raised in," which doesn't take account of people who were "raised" as Jehovah's Witnesses but are now daily communicants at St. Leo's, or who "identify with" Catholicism because their name is Murphy (!)
Last week the big Pew Rsearch Center survey of 35,000 adults showed that over 1 in 4 had left the religion they were raised in, and switched to a different church. Over half of the switchers had switched more than once.
I don't think any of the membership census data show the complexity of people's religion affiliation, let alone their level of belief and practice.
“But what are you citing that this decision is based in Catholicism?”
it is Kmiec who cites his Catholicism as part of the foundation for his opinion
some Catholics can say he is not a respectable Catholic
but, those elements of Catholicism Kmiec cites - it’s “social justice” teaching - are not disputed as not part of Catholicism
neither is it disputed that the dominant allies of that thinking, in the political sense and the political arena, here and in Europe, are marxists
a “conservative” with marxist views - theologically derived or otherwise - is both an oxymoron and a schizophrenic
see new post/thread - Catholic opposition to Kmiec at
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1990844/posts
Is Kmeic part of OPERATION CHAOS??? Why would he do this??
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