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Texas defends separation of polygamist sect kids from moms
MyWay ^ | 4-15-08 | MICHAEL GRACZYK

Posted on 04/15/2008 5:15:25 PM PDT by tripod

ELDORADO, Texas (AP) - State officials Tuesday defended their decision to suddenly separate mothers from many of the children taken in a raid on a polygamist ranch in West Texas. Texas Children's Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said the separation was made Monday after they decided that children are more truthful in interviews about possible abuse if their parents are not around.

(Excerpt) Read more at apnews.myway.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: allsafefrompervs; allyourkidsare; belong2government; childmarriage; cult; custodydispute; pervs; polygamy; sect
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It is outrageous for the state to put these 400 children on cots in a coleseum supervised by total strangers. Since they are supervised why can't their mothers be with them too?
1 posted on 04/15/2008 5:15:25 PM PDT by tripod
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To: tripod
It would appear that at least some of the mothers may have previously permitted their 13 and 14 year old daughters to have sex with 50 year old men.

If that is the case, these "mothers" should never see their children again.

2 posted on 04/15/2008 5:17:46 PM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: trumandogz

I agree with you about the child abuse. But certainly not all of these 400 children have been abused. And, there isn’t going to be any abuse while under state supervision. I don’t buy the state’s argument that the children won’t talk with mothers around. They are going to be interviewed privately anyway. I think this is a powergrab by Social Services which is notorious for violations of parental rights.


3 posted on 04/15/2008 5:21:44 PM PDT by tripod
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To: tripod

I’ve been pretty tough on the authorities here. There are some things I understand and others I don’t. For instance, I think there were likely abuses taking place on the farm. So far that hasn’t been proven, but it does seem plausible at this point.

The infractions seem to involve the young women, that they are exploited sexually for the pleasure of the adult males.

What I don’t quite understand is why the boys are being isolated from their moms. I there a reason for this?

Folks, while I do think some bad things were going on out there, I am by no means convinced that every child was being abused, that every adult was involved.

At this point we have signed off on every child being ripped from their parents. I remain unconvinced that is warranted.

Give me a plausible reason, and I might change my mind.


4 posted on 04/15/2008 5:24:00 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (McCain is rock solid on SCOTUS judicial appointments. He voted for Ginsberg, Kennedy and Souter.)
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To: tripod

5 posted on 04/15/2008 5:24:35 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: tripod

No doubt some DNA tests are in order ~ just to make sure the kids belong to the mothers.


6 posted on 04/15/2008 5:25:07 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: tripod
First, I have no sympathy for a woman that pimps her teenage daughter to 50 year old men.

Second, CPS can be overreaching.

Third, I would have to agree that these kids will be more open if they are outside of the presence of their mothers

Once each mother is cleared of any wrongdoing, mother and child should be reunited.

And if any of the women did hand over their pubescent daughters to adult men, they should go to prison for life.

7 posted on 04/15/2008 5:27:52 PM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: DoughtyOne

I agree. And, I think it is a wholesale violation of rights - parents’ and childrens’. Again, if supervision is in place children and their mothers ought to be allowed to be together until things are sorted out and specific cases identified where state intervention is justified. Some dangerous precedents are being set in this case my friends.


8 posted on 04/15/2008 5:29:12 PM PDT by tripod
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To: DoughtyOne

I don’t know. I think they have to separate them, and then go on a case-by-case basis, and that could take awhile (400!!). I think it’s going to be hard to get a straight story as it is, let alone with Mama watching over it all.

Personally, I’m just grateful it didn’t all end in a big fireball.


9 posted on 04/15/2008 5:33:40 PM PDT by MizSterious (The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
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To: BenLurkin

Is that how the Texas sherrif gets around?


10 posted on 04/15/2008 5:34:10 PM PDT by tripod
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To: tripod

Given what these mothers (in name only) allowed to happen to some of these children, that’s an incredibly stupid thing to say.


11 posted on 04/15/2008 5:34:45 PM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: tripod
Isn't all of this based on some anonymous calls from an unidentified girl/woman?

(As if teenage girls never lied to get adults in trouble before.)

Sounds like a witch-hunt in progress.

12 posted on 04/15/2008 5:35:24 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: tripod

I’m going to have to agree with you on that.


13 posted on 04/15/2008 5:36:09 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (McCain is rock solid on SCOTUS judicial appointments. He voted for Ginsberg, Kennedy and Souter.)
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To: tripod

Have they found the kid that made the anonymous phone call?

I can’t get past that part.

I don’t know anything about these people but the whole thing reminds me of the old movie “The Children’s Hour” in which false lesbian allegations of lesbianism from a young girl ruin some womens’ lives.

It was to show how dangerous an unformed and undeveloped young mind is.


14 posted on 04/15/2008 5:37:57 PM PDT by fishhound (Boycott the Olympics in China.)
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To: Age of Reason

Yes, unidentified and still not discovered 16 year-old girl.


15 posted on 04/15/2008 5:38:54 PM PDT by John W (We're all gonna die!!!!)
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To: tripod

oops
“in which false lesbian allegations of lesbianism”

should read...

in which false allegations of lesbianism


16 posted on 04/15/2008 5:39:04 PM PDT by fishhound (Boycott the Olympics in China.)
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To: tripod
Why can't their mothers be with them too?

You got to be kidding, right?

17 posted on 04/15/2008 5:39:09 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: Melas

Tell me that every mother or for that most of these mothers, were malfeasant. I don’t buy it. Hang the ones who are but, process this case in a way which is fair to those who are innocent. Including the children. The men are out of the picture. Put the children together with their mothers in supervised settings. The truth will come to light and those responsible will be punished. Wholesale violations of rights aren’t the way to go.


18 posted on 04/15/2008 5:39:23 PM PDT by tripod
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To: MizSterious

I do not think the moms should be in the interview process, but I do think it is very critical that a panel of individuals, who understand how the dynamics of childhood questioning, are.

We don’t want to wind up with 800 moms and dads that get the McMartin treatment.


19 posted on 04/15/2008 5:39:27 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (McCain is rock solid on SCOTUS judicial appointments. He voted for Ginsberg, Kennedy and Souter.)
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To: tripod

Maybe some of these women will be more willing to discuss the crimes committed by their men now - instead of trying to cover them up.


20 posted on 04/15/2008 5:39:28 PM PDT by PFC
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To: tripod
MOTHERS, love, honor and obey your spouse; the spouse who Spiritual Marries rapes and impregnates your minor daughters! Don't forget to have your unmarried minor daughters apply for the welfare but never reveal the Spiritual studs! These people are despicable! Hurray for Texas!
21 posted on 04/15/2008 5:39:50 PM PDT by ricks_place
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To: trumandogz
And if any of the women did hand over their pubescent daughters to adult men, they should go to prison for life.

(Scratching my head) Hand over to be "molested" or as brides?

In many states, isn't it legal for an underage boy or girl to marry an older spouse with parental permission?

22 posted on 04/15/2008 5:40:34 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: PFC

Where is most of the information on this case coming from? Are those sources freepers would normally trust on other issues?


23 posted on 04/15/2008 5:41:06 PM PDT by John W (We're all gonna die!!!!)
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To: Rudder

Hell no I’m not kidding. There is a wholesale violations of rights occuring here. Supervision is the key. Reunite and supervise until it is sorted out. That’s the way to go.


24 posted on 04/15/2008 5:42:21 PM PDT by tripod
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To: John W
I think people are ready for any excuse to persecute these people because they live a different lifestyle.
25 posted on 04/15/2008 5:42:27 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: DoughtyOne; All
"The infractions seem to involve the young women, that they are exploited sexually for the pleasure of the adult males."

I don't think this is/was a sex cult. This is an LDS sect (religious cult if you will) that has certainly gone too far. The marriage of a child under the age of consent shouldn't be condoned. Nor is it proper.

It was at one time standard LDS teaching that a person couldn't obtain "Exaltation" without engaging in Celestial Plural Marriage in an LDS Temple. Hence the temple on the ranch in Texas.

The main LDS church renounced polygamy over a 100 years ago. Even when polygamy was accepted, only a tiny percentage of members engaged in it, though it was supposedly required

It also seems the state has gone too far by not allowing the mothers to stay with their children. What is this? guilt by association?

It really takes someone who knows about LDS church history to put all of this into context. It's not a simple case of sex abuse.

26 posted on 04/15/2008 5:43:39 PM PDT by nralife
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To: nralife
The main LDS church renounced polygamy over a 100 years ago.

Under government duress.

27 posted on 04/15/2008 5:44:44 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason

The anonymous call is very troubling, and so far no one has explained just how this justified the raid.

That said, IF allegations are true, I’m glad they acted quickly and without loss of life. Other raids have not turned out as well.


28 posted on 04/15/2008 5:44:51 PM PDT by MizSterious (The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
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To: Age of Reason

In Texas, i believe that age where a minor can get married with parental permission in 16.

But, perhaps there was sexual abuse of these children before they were pawned off to be married.


29 posted on 04/15/2008 5:45:53 PM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: DoughtyOne

I wonder about that too. If the allegations are true, it’s probably all justified—but where is that anonymous caller, and why won’t she come forward?


30 posted on 04/15/2008 5:47:21 PM PDT by MizSterious (The Republican Party is infected with the RINO-virus)
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To: tripod
No precedents have been set yet and I think once this is adjudicated we are going to find that this looks a lot more like Branch Dividian do over then some holy crusade. The start of it is at the least questionable they have one complaint from a 16 year old child and now we have 400+ in custody. Why? Was the search warrant written in such broad and nebulous terms that they could grab what is basically a small towns entire child population while we're looking for her?
31 posted on 04/15/2008 5:48:30 PM PDT by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: DoughtyOne

We really don’t know about the boys. Not enough information.

Common sense rules.

The boys could be aware of what is going on. At least in some instances, involving the young girls and older men. They could have information or be witnesses to some things that would help the investigation.

I watched a program once wherein young Morman men told of how they were mistreated by being forbidden to interact with the young girls that had been programed to be used by older men. The young men/boys were mal treated to such an extent that they were either banned from the group and thrown out on their own with nothing to help them live or adjust in the real world, or they ran away.

Think about it. A young teen or older teen boy starts being interested in girls (the norm, anyway), right? Yet in this group they are treated like dirt because the cult is run for the older men to take the girls for themselves almost as soon as they hit puberty.

I believe we know only the tiniest tip of the iceberg so far.

If you find yourself thinking too conventionally...that is, what you are used to in normal society, but only ONE ABERRATION, like girls being used by older men, you could easily overlook that this entire thing is totally screwed up and manifests itself in many, many ways.


32 posted on 04/15/2008 5:49:08 PM PDT by txrangerette (Just say "no" to the Obama Cult and the Clinton Machine!!)
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To: nralife

I believe it’s fair to point out the doctrinal beliefs concerning this matter. I generally try to avoid attaching societal labels to religious practices, but in this instance I am compelled to do so, by thinking it sexual abuse.

I believe a reasoned comeback would state that procreation was the ultimate goal. While that may be true, I can’t dismiss the reality of what has been taking place, to view it in the terms of those who would defend the practice.

BTW, I’m no trying to say you support what has been taking place.

Thanks for the comments.


33 posted on 04/15/2008 5:50:48 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (McCain is rock solid on SCOTUS judicial appointments. He voted for Ginsberg, Kennedy and Souter.)
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To: Age of Reason
Sounds like a witch-hunt in progress.

I can't recall: is it the one that floats or the one that sinks that's the witch?

34 posted on 04/15/2008 5:51:51 PM PDT by budwiesest (The Dems couldn't have picked two worse candidates if they tried.)
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To: tripod; trumandogz; DoughtyOne; muawiyah; BenLurkin; MizSterious; Melas; Age of Reason; ...

Frankly, my spider-sense is tingling. I’m beginning to think this whole thing may or may not have been a carefully premeditated put-up job by the sect’s shadowy leaders. I’m not saying everybody’s in on it but the State of Texas has clearly bitten off more than it can process. It’s looking like there is no evidence of anything blatantly abusive. All the mothers (the more telegenic ones, that is) are weeping for the cameras on cue, claiming mistreatment by the state and begging for their babies back. Nobody’s going to talk. They will never find the mysterious girl claiming abuse because there isn’t any.

The civil liberties gang is starting to circle the wagons around them and they are playing the media like a fiddle. I’m afraid this is going to be a big, big PR disaster for TX and likely the same thing will happen that happened in UT when an aggressive Governor went after the FLDS back in the fifties; bad press and electoral retribution with the result that Mormon polygamists became radioactive and the authorities looked the other way from then on.

Maybe this wasn’t pre-planned but it might as well have been. After all this time not a single man has been fingered and nobody is singing, save to denounce the State.


35 posted on 04/15/2008 5:53:43 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: tripod

The rights of children to be protected trumps parental rights in every court in the nation.


36 posted on 04/15/2008 5:54:32 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: tripod
Tripod I am in complete agreement with you.

I suspect most of these mothers are good mothers. The authorities need to go after the perps, and I doubt they will develop much if any evidence that will hold up in a court of law in child interviews. And, if they have an informant that will testify they should use the info to separate the abused ones and keep the other mothers with their children. This is heading for a PR disaster for the Lone Star state.

My question is this: If polygamy is a crime in the various states, why aren't they taking action to close down the temples??

37 posted on 04/15/2008 5:54:38 PM PDT by elpadre
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To: MizSterious

IMO, it’s going to be revealed over time that supposed call from a 16 year old was fictitious. The defense is going to give the prosecution hell over it.

If that is true, the judge may throw the book at some public officials.

IMO it’s very likely that some CPS employee thought they were doing the right thing by falsifying a report.

If the man that was supposedly involved with the sixteen year old can prove he had not been to the farm in a number of years, it’s going to get real dicey.


38 posted on 04/15/2008 5:57:35 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (McCain is rock solid on SCOTUS judicial appointments. He voted for Ginsberg, Kennedy and Souter.)
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To: tripod; trumandogz; DoughtyOne; muawiyah; BenLurkin; MizSterious; Melas; Age of Reason; ...

Apropos of the media and the 1950’s incident. I saw a news special that interviewed a handful of former children of the long-ago raids and they were all denouncing the authorities rather than their “fathers.”

There are plenty of anti-polygamy survivors and activists weighing in too, but I’m afraid the polygamists are going to be able to play victim here.


39 posted on 04/15/2008 5:58:29 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: Rudder

I have yet to see one single charge involving a parent and their son. Perhaps you can tell us what those charges were.


40 posted on 04/15/2008 5:58:33 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (McCain is rock solid on SCOTUS judicial appointments. He voted for Ginsberg, Kennedy and Souter.)
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To: trumandogz
"It would appear that at least some of the mothers may have previously permitted their 13 and 14 year old daughters to have sex with 50 year old men."

That simply defies belief.

I have not followed the story enough to know where that info comes from, but it is horrifying to even consider that there is an element of truth to it.

41 posted on 04/15/2008 5:59:58 PM PDT by Radix (How come they call people "Morons" when they do not know as much? Shouldn't they be called "Lessons?)
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To: DoughtyOne

You are free to think whatever you please about the phone call. So am I. We differ.


42 posted on 04/15/2008 6:02:35 PM PDT by txrangerette (Just say "no" to the Obama Cult and the Clinton Machine!!)
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To: tripod
Tell me that every mother or for that most of these mothers, were malfeasant

You and I both know that's not true. The problem is that we're not just talking about mothers and children, but abusers/exploiters and witnesses. Until the wheat is sorted from the chaff we can't have the mothers who're knee deep in the illegalities influencing these young witnesses. It's just plain old common sense.

43 posted on 04/15/2008 6:03:41 PM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: tripod

“It is outrageous for the state to put these 400 children on cots in a coleseum supervised by total strangers. Since they are supervised why can’t their mothers be with them too?”

Because their mothers didn’t bother to protect them when they had the chance!


44 posted on 04/15/2008 6:09:42 PM PDT by annelizly
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To: sinanju

I may be wrong, but I believe we’ve found some children who were married off at ages illegal in Texas.


45 posted on 04/15/2008 6:13:14 PM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: DoughtyOne
IMO, it’s going to be revealed over time that supposed call from a 16 year old was fictitious. The defense is going to give the prosecution hell over it. If that is true, the judge may throw the book at some public officials

Can't happen. It's the law in Texas that every allegation of child abuse, even from anonymous sources MUST BE investigated. No exceptions.

46 posted on 04/15/2008 6:14:55 PM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: tripod
ELDORADO, Texas (AP) - State officials Tuesday defended their decision to suddenly separate mothers from many of the children taken in a raid on a polygamist ranch in West Texas. Texas Children's Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said the separation was made Monday after they decided that children are more truthful in interviews about possible abuse if their parents are not around.

Normally the alleged perpetrator would be arrested and taken to trail. Taking away 401 children from their parents smacks of Nazi Germany Fascism to me. This is a repeat of a questionable attack on a Christian sect in Waco. Just as in Waco all we read about in the MSM is alleged sexual deviance. That justifies radical action against another Christian Sect.

But what we see and learn is that we killed many innocent women and children in an unjustified and overzealous attempt to get one man. Are we doing that again in Texas, only under a Republican Administration? Is it okay to destroy the lives of 401 children and parents because we do not understand or like or approve of their life style? Who are the real criminals -- Marleigh Meisner?

47 posted on 04/15/2008 6:16:38 PM PDT by olezip
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To: tripod

It seems that terrorists have more rights than this group of citizens.


48 posted on 04/15/2008 6:21:31 PM PDT by prov1813man (While the one you despise and ridicule works to protect you, those you embrace work to destroy you)
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To: olezip

There was no ‘alleged’ sexual deviance at the Branch Dividian site—— there’s many interviews from the kids (now adults) and yes, it happened (I’m not saying the other is OK). Just that the kids who survived are very damaged from what was done to them at the hands of DK.


49 posted on 04/15/2008 6:24:34 PM PDT by najida (On FR- Everyman is Brad Pitt, Everywoman is Aunt Bea)
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To: sinanju
I will always circle the wagons for civil liberties. Your post is the first one I have seen that trys to insinuate that the leaders of the cult were smart enough to kick this all off. I do not believe that.
50 posted on 04/15/2008 6:24:55 PM PDT by nomorelurker (keep flogging them till morale improves)
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