Posted on 04/18/2008 4:14:07 PM PDT by kjenerette
To clarify:
We’ve had our PRESIDENTIAL primary. South Carolina is one of the first. On June 10 we will have our primary for all State and Federal offices.
You are razor sharp on the issues & that is one hell of a resume.
You'll make a good'un.
Those aren't points, they're accusations based on opinion. There are no reasons given to back them up.
Ok then, she's in a primary fight against a Republican incumbant. Now I understand.
Awesome! Thanks for serving!
Cool...again, thanks for your service.
Thanks Katie,Here’s a bump:)
Um...what? :-/
Congress will control the amount of the prebate, therefore they will control how much money you get each month in a way the current IRS does not.
Imagine the possibilities. First, they decide that the rich shouldn't get gubmint money for their groceries (something I wholeheartedly agree with) and no more prebate for Bill Gates or Rush Limbaugh. Then, they start defining "rich" downward, something they've been happy to do before--remember in 2004 when Kerry's definition of "wealthy" would have included a Chicago firefighter and his wife the elementary school teacher?
Then, of course, the horror stories about how the prebate isn't enough for the poor will start, so theirs gets bumped up...and then the povery level gets moved (that's what Clinton did to "lift" millions out of poverty), the amount of the prebate starts getting tied to stuff other than the poverty level (smoking, weight, use of public transport, size of car, size of carbon footprint, etc.)
Get the picture?
See post 71 for my explanation to higgmeister on why the Fair Tax would lead to Congress monkeying with people’s incomes and would be a vast net increase in government power.
Hope your jump went well!
Well, I can back them up. Constitutionalist, I'm not sure if Boortz has addressed these specific problems, but I think you'll see from what I'm about to write that I feel perfectly justified not caring what Mr. Boortz thinks. You see, if someone tells me it's a good idea to put a rabid wolverine in my trousers, and I decide it isn't, I don't really need to hear a rebuttal in order to be intellectually fair. The Fair Tax is the conservative version of a rabid wolverine down the front hatch.
Let's leave my first point ("The system is a ready made Dem talking point because it will shaft the middle class") for last. In fact, I'm willing to admit I should have written that one differently, though I do stand by it in its current form. Let's tackle the second and third points:
"Congresscritters will get to have a big say in one's monthly income, leading to even easier mass social experimentation."
Congress will control the amount of the prebate every family receives from the government, therefore they will control how much money you get each month in a way the current IRS does not.
Imagine the possibilities. First, they decide that the rich shouldn't get gubmint money for their groceries (something I wholeheartedly agree with) and no more prebate for Bill Gates or Rush Limbaugh. Then, they start defining "rich" downward, something they've been happy to do before--remember in 2004 when Kerry's definition of "wealthy" would have included a Chicago firefighter and his wife the elementary school teacher?
Then, of course, the horror stories about how the prebate isn't enough for the poor will start, so theirs gets bumped up...and then the povery level gets moved (that's what Clinton did to "lift" millions out of poverty), the amount of the prebate starts getting tied to stuff other than the poverty level (smoking, weight, use of public transport, size of car, size of carbon footprint, etc.)
Get the picture?
That brings us to the third point:
"Any system that requires sending a monthly gubmint check to all or most Americans would have the Founders spinning in their graves like Dremel tools."
This is the number one problem with the Fair Tax, one that leaves it outside the realm of conservatism and proper governance even if it was workable in every other respect. The Fair Tax proposal requires that we establish the largest government entitlement program in our history, perhaps even world history, an entitlement that every American adult would be involved in whether they like it or not.
If anybody wants to tell me why the federal government paying for Bill Gates' groceries is conservative, now's a good time.
Now, here's that first point again, edited:
"The system is a ready made series of Dem talking points."
Let's say I'm a Dem running against a GOP Congressional candidate, who we'll call Candidate Smith. Without even breaking a sweat, I can come up with EIGHT TV/radio ads to run against my opponent:
"Candidate Smith says that after his sales tax plan passes, you'll pay 30 cents more on the dollar for everything."
"Candidate Smith says that after his sales tax plan passes, you'll pay $1.30 after tax for a $1 item. But get this: He says that's a 23 percent tax. Candidate Smith can't even do math, vote to re-elect Congressman Bedfellow."
"Candidate Smith's sales tax plan would eliminate the mortgage tax deduction, but leading economists say that would send home prices into free fall. Can you really afford to have your home's value go down even further?"
"Are you retired or looking forward to retiring soon? You've paid income taxes all your life, but now Candidate Smith has a sales tax plan that will shake you down for even more money during retirement, and ruin all your hard work and financial planning."
"Candidate Smith says his sales tax plan will eliminate the IRS, but what he hasn't told you is that we'll need a whole new bureaucracy of auditors to make sure small businesses and private citizens are abiding by the new sales tax laws."
"Should federal money go to buy Bill Gates and Paris Hilton's groceries? Candidate Smith's sales tax plan includes a government giveaway program that would pay them to ease the burden of paying the same taxes as you."
"Candidate Smith keeps up his untrue attacks on Congressman Bedfellow. Smith says that Bedfellow supports government giveaways, but Smith has proposed the biggest giveaway of government cash in history, one that would lead to your tax dollars going in Paris Hilton's pocket. Bedfellow supports more federal money for schools and college aid, not buying groceries for millionaire party girls."
"If you filled up today, you paid $3.43 for each gallon of gas. Under Candidate Smith's new sales tax plan, you'd pay $4.46. Candidate Smith says that's a tax break for families."
Get the picture? And unlike most Dem talking points, every single one of those would be truthful.
Sorry, no wolverines down the trousers for me.
If income is no longer reported, how can Congress make that distinction? They can't, so this won't happen.
Then, of course, the horror stories about how the prebate isn't enough for the poor will start, so theirs gets bumped up...and then the povery level gets moved (that's what Clinton did to "lift" millions out of poverty), the amount of the prebate starts getting tied to stuff other than the poverty level (smoking, weight, use of public transport, size of car, size of carbon footprint, etc.)
Now you have a point. Yes, the poverty level will become a political football. I'd rather not have the prebate system at all with just a straight sales tax rate. But on balance, I favor the Fair Tax because of the dramatic decrease in government control over our daily lives.
What I don't see happening is the other stuff you imagine will take place. (smoking, weight, use of public transport, size of car, size of carbon footprint, etc.) This tax is based on one thing, retail expenditures, and it's collected at the retail point of sale. What, the guy at the grocery store is going to know the MPG of the vehicle you drove down there, and adjust your tax bill accordingly when you check out? Not likely.
This really gets to the point of why HR25 is a desirable alternative to income taxation. It eliminates the control freaks' favorite weapon against free citizens- the invasive nature of the tax code. I could say a lot more about this, but I'll leave it to you to ponder.
This is the number one problem with the Fair Tax, one that leaves it outside the realm of conservatism and proper governance even if it was workable in every other respect. The Fair Tax proposal requires that we establish the largest government entitlement program in our history, perhaps even world history, an entitlement that every American adult would be involved in whether they like it or not.
If you're going to define a prepaid tax expenditure offset as a "government entitlement", then we simply can't have a conversation. That's simply asinine.
Do you claim the $500/ child tax credit? I do, I have 2 kids. So now by your definition I'm a "welfare recipient" because I avoid as much of the income tax burden as I can? Right. Good luck selling that logic.
"The system is a ready made series of Dem talking points."
As for the Dem talking points, if a candidate is so mealy mouthed and weak that he can't articulate his positions, he needs to get a job. It's extremely simple to put an income tax advocate on the defensive, there are sixty thousand + pages of ammo!
"Candidate Smith says that after his sales tax plan passes, you'll pay 30 cents more on the dollar for everything." "Candidate Smith says that after his sales tax plan passes, you'll pay $1.30 after tax for a $1 item. But get this: He says that's a 23 percent tax. Candidate Smith can't even do math, vote to re-elect Congressman Bedfellow." "Candidate Smith's sales tax plan would eliminate the mortgage tax deduction, but leading economists say that would send home prices into free fall. Can you really afford to have your home's value go down even further?" "Are you retired or looking forward to retiring soon? You've paid income taxes all your life, but now Candidate Smith has a sales tax plan that will shake you down for even more money during retirement, and ruin all your hard work and financial planning." "Candidate Smith says his sales tax plan will eliminate the IRS, but what he hasn't told you is that we'll need a whole new bureaucracy of auditors to make sure small businesses and private citizens are abiding by the new sales tax laws." "Should federal money go to buy Bill Gates and Paris Hilton's groceries? Candidate Smith's sales tax plan includes a government giveaway program that would pay them to ease the burden of paying the same taxes as you." "Candidate Smith keeps up his untrue attacks on Congressman Bedfellow. Smith says that Bedfellow supports government giveaways, but Smith has proposed the biggest giveaway of government cash in history, one that would lead to your tax dollars going in Paris Hilton's pocket. Bedfellow supports more federal money for schools and college aid, not buying groceries for millionaire party girls." "If you filled up today, you paid $3.43 for each gallon of gas. Under Candidate Smith's new sales tax plan, you'd pay $4.46. Candidate Smith says that's a tax break for families."
Since his daughter’s blog is not allowed, try this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1917214/posts
Is Rep. Brown leaving or are you taking him on?
You got company billybob!!!
Perhaps you should link up with these folks.
www.iraqvetsforcongress.com/
Airborne!! All the way!! and remember, feet and knees together.
How in the world are you (Mrs.jenerette) going to get past all this baggage with Van?!?!
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