Posted on 04/29/2008 10:31:09 PM PDT by Loud Mime
Preface: As I am rereading Plato's "Republic" I marvel at how the knowledge we need is sitting on our bookshelves. I've provided this segment for your reading, so you may read what our Founding Fathers read. And above all, I said, and as the result of all, see how sensitive the citizens become; they chafe impatiently at the least touch of authority and at length, as you know, they cease to care even for the laws, written or unwritten; they will have no one over them. Yes, he said, I know it too well.
Such, my friend, I said, is the fair and glorious beginning out of which springs tyranny. Glorious indeed, he said. But what is the next step? The ruin of oligarchy is the ruin of democracy; the same disease magnified and intensified by liberty overmasters democracy --the truth being that the excessive increase of anything often causes a reaction in the opposite direction; and this is the case not only in the seasons and in vegetable and animal life, but above all in forms of government. True. The excess of liberty, whether in States or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery. Yes, the natural order. And so tyranny naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme form of liberty? As we might expect. That, however, was not, as I believe, your question-you rather desired to know what is that disorder which is generated alike in oligarchy and democracy, and is the ruin of both? Just so, he replied. Well, I said, I meant to refer to the class of idle spendthrifts, of whom the more courageous are the-leaders and the more timid the followers, the same whom we were comparing to drones, some stingless, and others having stings. A very just comparison. These two classes are the plagues of every city in which they are generated, being what phlegm and bile are to the body. And the good physician and lawgiver of the State ought, like the wise bee-master, to keep them at a distance and prevent, if possible, their ever coming in; and if they have anyhow found a way in, then he should have them and their cells cut out as speedily as possible.
food for thought....
Pre-Founder’s Quote PING
Plato was both good and bad. He was good at spotting the problems with various forms of government including democracy; but his proposed solution was to make the state even more oppressive and put philosophers in charge of it.
As a member of the 60s generation, which (IMHO) has brought about the greatest upheaval in our modern society, we are well on our way, in fact are already in the claws of slavery. We are slaves to selfishness and laziness. We know to do right, but we don’t have the will to do it, or to fight against the grain to stand up for righteousness and being our brother’s keeper. We’d rather let government do it and sit back and enjoy the ride, complaining all the way. I hope that we freepers have the guts to do the right thing and take on the challenges to change society back to the Judeo-Christian standards that made our country great.
I have problems with Plato’s solutions. His observations were keen....but I like Aristotle better.
I’m still studying these two men.
Classical studies are invaluable to understanding Man and government. That is why it has been so largely stricken from the government-run education system. That is also why Attic Greek history was referred to by the writers of the Federalist Papers as an example of why national unity must be accomplished through the US Constitution.
When a society relies on government more than itself we must change society, not government.
If I could change anything it would be our education system. It is destroying our nation.
I picked up a copy of “The Story of Philosophy” by Will Durant...from a junk dealer at a local flea market. The book was printed in 1927, I believe. (I love old books)
That book has been a pleasure to read.
At a local Starbucks one college student saw it sitting on my table and commented that he had just finished studying it. He had never seen an older copy. Darn....there’s still hope.
When I die somebody is going to get one heck of a library. ;^)
In such a condition, we could vote away our rights, such as the 2nd Amendment, because a school shooting seemed like it was just too terrible to not have a response to it. When the law was enacted, it was for self protection because it is a God given right to protect yourself and family. It's a shame to give up something that is universally important, for a transient reason. If we get 51% to oppose a right, you loose it. If the majority wanted to, we could vote slavery back into existence with 51%. A republic wouldn't allow a change unless the current law was obviously unfair.
The reason America is getting worse by the day, is we think we are a democracy and can vote each year, 2 years, or 4 years to change what we just changed a while ago. Being a nation of laws means the laws are passed for everyone and are universal to human nature. Why change something that is proven good for everyone, just because it's inconvenient at the time? By allowing transient laws, we open ourselves up to the whims of the day and eventually we will give up everything for peace and order.( dictator)
Another book you may enjoy is the Student's History of Philosophy, by Arthur Kenyon Rogers. I'm sure you could find a copy through abebooks.com.
I studied to be a K-12 English teacher, went through the entire program, got my degree and certificate, but never taught professionally. But, as a result, I find myself reading many old high school and college text books on American literature, rhetoric and composition, history, and philosophy. The books used before FDR are undoubtedly (IMO) far better than those used after FDR. I attribute this to two factors. 1. The influence of John Dewey, whose social construct (to borrow the Left’s Marxist terminology) of education, which believed that Man could be perfected through education and socially engineered to become virtuous through state-run schools (still lauded, though roundly trounced by the Germans, who were the most educated people on the planet when they undertook their two attempts to conquer Europe), and 2. FDR's braintrust, which glorified academe and began the idol-worship of university degrees. This had a trickle-down effect into education, where PhDs were forced to invent new approaches to education and to implement them in government-run schools. I, myself, was a victim of the “Open Classroom” experiment that lasted for a few years. I'm still trying to fill the educational gaps from my government-run education.
Four quotes of Aristotle I understand and agree with.
Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotisms.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
What it lies in our power to do, it lies in our power not to do.
The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal.
Democracy is the most dangerous of all forms of government, because there is nothing to restrain the mob. The mob has no conscience.
A fact the Founders knew all too well, yet a trap they fell into anyway.
(sigh)
Thus died the Republic.
Carolyn
I hope he enjoys and appreciates it.
My understanding is that Plato’s Republic is not a form of government as we know it. His ‘republic’ was more of a nation or a nation’s government.
I’m careful with my philosophical judgments. I’m no expert, just a student.
I do not believe the founders fell into the trap; Franklin warned the citizens against their own shortfalls and Jefferson knew the need for constant revolutions.
The founder’s design lacked two important elements: term limits and English as our official language, which Noah Webster trumpeted from the Constitution’s ratification.
The design was good. Our nation’s drift from virtue has been the killer.
From the Declaration of Independence...
These are universal truths that would work no matter what the country or time frame. If we allow "tweaking" of these universal principals, we end up losing them forever.
The ignorance of these constant truths is what depresses me daily. To look at a Democrat is like looking at a moron that keeps sticking bobby pins in electric sockets. Lets raise taxes so we can have more money. Lets lose a war so we can lose the next one, when attacked. Lets kill babies to save women. Lets legalize dope so we can all be morons without fear. Lets be friends with N. Korea and see if they will like us more. Lets stop drilling for oil so we can be energy independent. The list is mind boggling.
I visualize democrats as people who get others to stick bobby pins in electric sockets.
We differ, but not by much.
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