Beam me to Planet Gore !
Posted on 05/12/2008 1:37:03 PM PDT by shrinkermd
I did not listen to Rush’s entire show. The part I did here, was a “look-down-your-nose-sneer” at Senator McCain’s concern and proposals about climate change. I know this is problematical with those believing we are on the edge of a catastrophe and those who feel this is all hokum.
Seemingly, faith has replaced all reason in assessing the problem.
In actual fact the problem is really quite simple. What the European and other governments want to do is to hold the concentration of carbon dioxide to 450 parts per million. Presently, it is 380 ppm. At the beginning of the industrial age it was 280 ppm. As far as I can tell these are facts. My source is a recent article by Fred Pierce in the New Scientist. That link is: here.
The actual problem is not clearly a scientific problem and there are disputes as to the meaning of the rise of carbon dioxide in the earth’s atmosphere. A few excerpts from the above article include the following:
”…European governments are pressing for an agreement that would keep atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide below 450 parts per million. This compares with pre-industrial levels of 280 ppm and current levels of 380 ppm. This, they argue, will prevent warming by more than 2 °C, and so avoid "dangerous" climate change.
”Yet many climate scientists wince at this. First, because the European governments like to claim that the IPCC backs these targets, when in fact the IPCC goes out of its way to say that setting targets is a job for politicians. And second, because nobody knows either whether 450 ppm will hold warming below 2 °C, or whether this amount of warming will turn out to be safe. "It's horrifying when you see things boiled down to simple terms like a 2 °C warming. That will mean hugely different things for different places," Palmer says.
One reason the IPCC's official reports are slow to bridge this gap is the panel's policy of only considering published peer-reviewed research that is available when its review process gets under way. This means the current report, published last year, takes no account of research published after early 2005.
An increasingly scary debate about the state of the Greenland ice sheet is almost entirely absent in the 2007 report, for instance (see "What if the ice goes?"). Other recent research suggests that warming may be accelerating beyond IPCC predictions: first, because higher temperatures are releasing greenhouse gases from forests, soils and permafrost; and second, because the ocean's ability to absorb CO2 seems to have declined in the past decade.
"An increasingly scary debate about the state of the Greenland ice sheet hardly figures in the IPCC's 2007 report"
Equally worrying is the fact that climatologists are losing confidence in the ability of existing models to work out what global warming will do to atmospheric circulation - and hence to local weather patterns like rainfall. The most recent IPCC report made a number of regional predictions. It felt able to do so because it was generally assumed that if most models agreed on future climate in, say, the Amazon rainforest or western Europe, then they were probably right.
From my perspective Rush is more interested in pandering to his base with oversimplifications and relying on ridicule as argumentation.
I frankly, don’t know how serious this problem is, but there is a problem—within the lifetime of many reading this post atmospheric carbon dioxide will double. As cited in this article:
One of these unknowns was highlighted last month in the preprint of a paper James Hansen of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies has submitted to the journal Science (www.arxiv.org/abs/0804.1126). Looking back 50 million years, to a time when falling CO2 levels in the atmosphere reached 425 ppm - a level we are likely to reach within two decades - he says that was the moment Antarctica got its ice cap. This suggests that the planet may have a tipping point at around that level, give or take 75 ppm, and that by going above it we could render Antarctica ice-free once again. That would raise sea levels by around 60 metres.
I think Senator McCain’s interest in this subject is based on factual considerations. What we don’t know, we don’t know but now is not the time to close off all reasonable consideration and debate.
Global Warming is quack science. The “changes” these yahoos want the US to make in industry will destroy our economy.
The atmospheric CO2 level was twenty times today's level during the Cambrian period, with no catastrophic consequences.
If global warming scientists knew 1/100th of what they say they know, they would be dangerous.
bttp
With all due respect, do you work for McCain's campaign or the RNC? This is the second such post promoting him in the last hour.
Concerning your suggestion that "climate change" is a real issue, McCain is showing himself to be full of hot air.
The whole Global Warming fraud is based upon one, overarching goal---wealth redistribution within the U.S., and from the U.S. to the Third World.
If Mcacin actually supports this nonsense, then he is no better than Hillary or Obama.
And so it goes. Don’t listen to the whole show but knows everything that was said.
Typical.
So how are crops growing on Greenland these days? I’m sure the Vikings are just waiting for it to warm up enough to move back.
The problem is that there is NO peer reviewed scientific evidence that holding the atmospheric carbon dioxide levels to any particular level will have any discernible effect on atmospheric warming.
The only thing the proponents of these types of proposals have is flawed computer models with largely fudged numbers.
We don’t even know if holding the carbon dioxide levels to a low level will have an adverse effect on the atmosphere. Anybody who says they know one way or the other is telling a lie.
The only thing we do know is that these proposals will have an extreme negative effect on the world economy in general, and the U.S. economy in particular.
A young man in a penguin suit followed him from campaign stop to campaign stop, bugging him about the subject. Finally, McQueeg sat down and listened to what the *penguin* boy had to say.
He's been a *believer* ever since. (heard this on Laura Ingram)
Are you out of your mind? THE IPCC is nothing more than a front for the enviro/wackos who want to destroy capitalism. James Hansen is a shill for the Branch Algorians who is increasingly being exposed as a fraud. The arctic ice cap returned to last years levels over the winter. Greenland is NOT melting. Antarctica is COOLING, and sea ice in Antarctica reached RECORD levels last year.
I saw McCain say the typical liberal/enviro line of ‘even if global warming is not real, it can’t hurt to cut CO2 emissions. Nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is we are strangling our energy generating capacity in the USA. No nukes, no new coal (if the SIERRA CLUB has their way), and worst of all , vast supplies of CLEAN natural gas off limits to exploration, along with oil. If the planet is COOLING, as increasing numbers of scientists believe, then our need for fossil fuels to keep us from freezing to death will increase exponentially. Without the capacity to provide more energy, war, famine, and death will foolow. Those could be the consequences if the Global warming Alarmists are wrong. Look at the situation with natural gas this year if you want proof of that. At the start of last winter, we had RECORD supplies of nat gas in storage. The winter was COLD and we drew down to below normal supplies. Our domestic production is DECREASING and LNG suppliers are selling to other countries at higher prices. Throw ina hurricane in the gulf of mexico this summer and a cold winter and the next President will be facing a freezing electorate and will have to ration nat gas. Get a clue!
The probelm is that the global warming crowd has closed off debate.
McCains statement indicates the debate is over.
No there isn't a problem. That's where you and Rush disagree. So why do you need to call it "pandering?" Can't people have an honest disagreement with liberal environmentalists and call it that, a disagreement? It's a common tactic among people on the left that you have chosen to side with - find all kinds of "motives" for idealogical disagreement.
There’s a fair amount of evidence that warming causes the CO2 level to increase - not the other way around.
Odds are good mankind could quit using fossil fuels completely, and atmospheric CO2 would continue to rise.
Atmospheric CO2 levels have been rising for the last dozen years, and there’s been no concurrent rise in temperature.
McCain’s a charlatan.
Get back to me when scientists can correctly and consistently predict next week’s weather. Then I’ll be willing to consider their predictions for next month. Meanwhile, their predictions for next year, next decade or next century mean NOTHING.
“If Mcacin actually supports this nonsense, then he is no better than Hillary or Obama.”
He does, and he isn’t.
We sit here playing “What’s tomorrows weather?” while Iran is steadily enriching uranium.
Unbelievable.
With all due respect, do you work for McCain’s campaign or the RNC? This is the second such post promoting him in the last hour.”
_____________________
Nice catch VR!
When Quack science can accurately predict weather tomorrow, I’ll be more inclined to believe their global warming spew.
If there is global warming (and there maybe, I don’t know). Man doesn’t have squat to do with it.
It is a hoax.
I don’t believe any of it. By the way, spelling counts here at FR and knowing the difference between “here” and “hear” is important.
Within my lifetime the Scientist were sure we would be facing starvation on a mass scale because of the population growth, we would be freezing to death because of global cooling, the ozone hole would expand and further endanger life on earth, acid rain would destroy the ocean, ddt would destroy birds, 56 years old.
IBTZ?
next week - huh how about in an hour!
Amen - keep those grant funds coming to the Alarmists of my Nation.
I wonder if you and McCain have seen this...
http://www.forces.org/Multimedia_Portal/index.php?selection=174
I’d like for you to see it and comment on each of the points contained therein, especially the fact that warming PRECEDES rises in CO2.
I wonder if you and McCain have seen this...
http://www.forces.org/Multimedia_Portal/index.php?selection=174
I’d like for you to see it and comment on each of the points contained therein, especially the fact that warming PRECEDES rises in CO2.
I have had enough. My write-in for President is virtually eminent.
CO2 is plant food.
If it's like last summer should be hot as hell and I am personally looking forward to it. (I love those summer nights!!)
I have worked with PhD who don't know the difference between ppm and ppmv, Do you think that the lawyer politicians have a clue?
Put down the bong and step away.
Well, faith has certainly replaced reason on the Global Warming Terrorist side. More and more real scientists have popped up and showed how the whole thing really IS bunkum. That the UCGW climate models are so poor that they wouldn’t get better than C- in any normal college undergrad math course. That famous “kockey stick” that Algore touted so energetically is an outright fraud, using wildly false data to achieve its’ published results.
So faith is all they have left.
That an entertainer like Rush should take the mickey out on them is very appropriate.
The proper response to the global warming activists - from Algore to John McCain- should be laughter, loud, derisive laughter! Algore is the Henry Gondorf of the 21st century, and John McCain is the scam’s highest ranking sucker! If it was just McCain’s money at risk, so be it, but it is not! It is our money!
(I think Senator McCain’s interest in this subject is based on factual considerations) - You “think”? Shouldn’t you “know” before endorsing McCain’s position?
(What we don’t know, we don’t know but now is not the time to close off all reasonable consideration and debate) - Unfortunately, that’s exactly what the Global Warming side wants us to do - close the debate. Don’t you know that if you don’t agree with them you’re a denier? The fact that McCain wants to increase taxes (that’s effectively what his credit trading system does) before all the evidence is in, puts him squarely with the “let’s close all debate” faction.
I must buy stock in Avon...lipstick sales are going through the roof from McCain supporters..
You and the RINO you rode in on....
Put another way -- the alarmists admit they don't really know how to build and interpret their models. They admit that the complexity is alarming. They admit (without meaning to) that there is still plenty of room, and need, for more SCIENCE to be done, rather than raping the western countries' economies.
I think Senator McCain’s interest in this subject is based on factual considerations.
You're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is, John McCain can't hardly SPELL "science", let alone understand it. He's pandering for votes from his base, which is socialists, Democrats, and fuzzy-thinking "moderates".
What we don’t know, we don’t know but now is not the time to close off all reasonable consideration and debate.
But what Algore and his ilk are DEMANDING -- and what McCain is now CAVING IN TO -- is exactly that! Shut off debate and begin the destruction of the Western economies.
Now, shrinker, I have a question for you: What about China? If McCain and the others are really serious about GW, then WHY DOES CHINA -- the second largest and growing producer of greenhouse gases -- GET A FREE RIDE???
I can only think. I guess you and many posters on this thread “know.” Faith is where you find it.
No, I am not involved with McCain or his campaign. Are you a ditohead?
All Presidential candidates and George Soros are members at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Wealth redistribution towards the goal of a One World Gov is what they're all about. They all use this warming scare as a bridge to other achievements.
McCain lost me today. For good. Let the RINOs, moderates, “Regan Democrats”, independents, disaffected Clintonistas, GOP locksteppers, immigrant lobby, global junk science lobby, beltway insiders, “maverick” enthusiasts, and the rest of his shabby coalition elect him. I won’t help.
And when McCain spews garbage like he did on O'Reilley's the other night (when he compared Anwar to the Grand Canyon), I just shake my head in disbelief: "My God! What are we doing!"
You're voting for the Pope?
Global warming is junk science, it is a fact that man made global warming is punk BS. If you believe otherwise that is your right. Rush is not pandering and McCain has finished putting the final nail into his coffin. I believe that McCain never wanted to win the election but is in it merely to disrupt the republican party and ensure a Democrat win. It is apparent to me that is his intention and I don’t believe that I am the only one who thinks this.
Is Co2 the cause or the effect? It appears you have bought in to the concept that Co2 is the cause and GW is the effect, and that’s not clear to me, nor to a lot of the climatologists in question. It is quite possible that warming is the cause, and Co2 is the effect, as the oceans lost their ability to retain Co2 as they warm up.
Let’s see you believe concern about global warming is “junk science” and Senator McCain wants to destroy the Republican Party rather be elected President.
Hmmmm...
He's pandering without shame. SOP for McQueeg.
This part you have right. But the "faith" is entirely on the side of the chicken littles. To be truly scientific, a hypothesis should be falsifiable. The global circulation models in use -- all of them -- are considered above falsification because "something must be done know to avoid consequences 20 or more years into the future." Thus, whether they are accurate or not, they must be taken by faith.
That ain't science: that's religion.
To date, by the way, none of the GCMs that have been around long enough to have some semblance of historical data entered into them have produced anything at all accurate beyond one month's time into the future. Not one. Temp, precip, doesn't matter. They are worthless as prognosticators.
Now, in view of the above, should we not gain more FACTS before acting rashly?
And oh, by the way, why is it cooling so rapidly in defiance of what the chicken little types would have us to believe?
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