Posted on 06/21/2008 6:24:50 AM PDT by vietvet67
The federal government's attempt to stop a group of gold-standard activists from minting an alternative to the greenback is about to face its first legal test.
A dozen people around the country filed suit in U.S. District Court in Idaho this week demanding the return of all the copper, silver, gold, and platinum coins — more than seven tons of metal in all — that the FBI and Secret Service seized in November during raids of a mint in Idaho and a strip mall storefront in Indiana.
The Justice Department had decided that the coins, many of which bear the familiar symbol of Lady Liberty and the phrase "TRUST IN GOD," were being illegally marketed as government-sanctioned currency, according to the sworn affidavit of an FBI agent.
The creator of the coins, Bernard von NotHaus, who lives in Miami, claims that the federal government is trying to shut down production of his liberty dollars, as the coins are called, because of the competition they pose to the greenback. In recent years, his precious metal coins have outperformed the dollar, whose value has plunged in relation to gold.
The raids in November were the result of a two-year undercover investigation of Mr. Von NotHaus and how he sold liberty dollars. The Justice Department has not followed up with any criminal charges against Mr. Von NotHaus or the regional distributors of his coins.
In the suit filed in Idaho, the various plaintiffs say the federal government has no right to continue holding onto their coins any longer.
While it is common for agents to warehouse property seized during criminal investigations, such as firearms or surveillance equipment, the plaintiffs say coins of precious metal should be off-limits.
(Excerpt) Read more at nysun.com ...
Another great idea that is destined to never see the light of day.
I bet he never sees his precious metals again.
What a sad tale!
ping
The fiat money federales can’t take competition and will ALWAYS go after those who pose a threat to the most destructive and — for them — PROFITABLE scam in human history. And even if this gets to a jury — not likely — the chances of the defense finding even ONE juror who understands any of this runs between slim and none BECAUSE THE JUDGES IN THESE CASE ALWAYS PROHIBIT ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS!
*********
(I wrote this a number of years ago when things were NOT going well with the economy. Trust me: They WILL get ugly once again as man — or certain men — cannot resist playing God. We continue to violate the universal, immutable laws of economics at our great peril.)
Despite the apparent economic strength of the American economy, history proves that EVERY house of cards eventually comes down. And the higher the card house, the harder the fall when it finally comes. And when it does, the more freedoms we will voluntarily surrender to “restore order.” It was the Founders’ concern about this historically valid problem which prompted their attempt — now ignored — to keep American “money” sound and honest.) Dick Bachert 1998
* * * * * * * *
The Forgotten History of Money
This is the fascinating story of the efforts by certain of the Founding Fathers to prevent the economic distress we find all about us today. It is also a sad story on the basis that modern, “sophisticated” Americans have abandoned the corrective institutional mechanism that remains in place to this day. As you read it, think about a world with many fewer S&L, banking and political scandals and economic problems now considered the norm.
“Blood running in the streets. Mobs of rioters and demonstrators threatening banks and legislatures. Looting of shop and home. Strikes and unemployment. Trade and distribution paralyzed. Shortages of food. Bankruptcies everywhere. Court dockets overloaded. Kidnappings for heavy ransom. Sexual perversion, drunkenness, lawlessness rampant. The wheels of government are clogged, and we are descending into the vale of confusion and darkness. No day was ever more clouded than the present. We are fast verging on anarchy and confusion. (George Washington in a 1786 letter to James Madison, describing the effects of fiat paper money inflation then ravaging America in the pre Constitutional period.)
“The annihilation (of the paper money) was so complete that barber shops were papered in jest with the bills; and sailors, on returning from cruises, being paid off in bundles of this worthless money, had suits made of it, and with characteristic lightheartedness, turned their loss into frolic by parading through the streets in decayed finery which in its better days had passed for thousands of dollars.” (Contemporary writer, Breck, 1786)
“Paper money polluted the equity of our laws, turned them into engines of oppression, corrupted the justice of our public administration, destroyed the fortunes of thousands who had confidence in it, enervated the trade and husbandry, and the manufactures of our country, and went far to destroy the morality of out people.” (Peletiah Webster, 1786)
At the drafting of the U.S.Constitution, there were many “Friends of Paper Money” present. On August 16, 1787, when the discussion arose on Article 1, Section 8, the proposed wording was this: “The Legislature of the United States shall have the power to...coin money...and emit bills of credit of the United States.”
A hot argument ensued on the power to emit bills of credit, which is another way of saying “printing paper money”.
Here are the actual words James Madison wrote describing the debate in his diary: “Mr.G.Morris moved to strike out *and emit bills of credit.* If the United States had credit, such bills would be unnecessary; if they had not, unjust and useless.
MADISON: Will it not be sufficient to prohibit the making them a tender? This will remove the temptation to emit them with unjust views. And promissory notes in that shape may in some emergencies be best.
MORRIS: Striking out the words will leave room still for notes of a responsible minister which will do the good without the mischief. The monied interest will oppose the plan of the Government, if paper emissions be not prohibited.
COL.MASON: Though he had a mortal hatred to paper money, yet as he could not foresee all emergencies, we was unwilling to tie the hands of the Legislature [Legislature = Congress].
MR.MERCER:(A friend to paper money) It was impolitic...to excite the opposition of all those who were friends to paper money.
MR. ELSEWORTH thought this was a favorable moment to shut and bar the door against paper money. The mischiefs of the various experiments which had been made, were now fresh in the public mind and had excited the disgust of all the respectable part of America. By withholding the power from the new Government, more friends of influence would be gained to it than by almost anything else...Give the Government credit, and other will offer. The power may do harm, never good.
MR.WILSON: It will have a most salutary influence on the credit of the United States to remove the possibility of paper money. This expedient can never succeed whilst its mischiefs are remembered, and as long as it can be resorted to, it will be a bar to other resources.
MR.READ thought the words, if not struck out, would be as alarming as the mark of the Beast in Revelation.
MR.LANGDON had rather reject the whole plan than retain the three words *and emit bills*”.
The motion for striking out carried.
Historian George Bancroft later wrote: “James Madison left his testimony that *the pretext for a paper currency, and particularly for making the bills a tender, either for public or private debts, was cut off.* This is the interpretation of the clause, made at the time of its adoption by all the statesmen of that age, not open to dispute because too clear for argument, and never disputed so long as any one man who took part in framing the constitution remained alive.”
(Bancroft – founder of the U.S.Naval Academy at Annapolis among other accomplishments – wrote a book on this very subject entitled “A Plea for the Constitution of the United States: Wounded in the House of Its Guardians.” During WWII, FDR – a serious friend of paper money – ostensibly to supply the war effort, ordered the printing plates for many historical books smelted. Bancroft’s book was among them. A photocopy of one of the remaining originals can be found here
ROGER SHERMAN(1721 1793)should be a name familiar to every American. As familiar as Washington, Madison, Jefferson and Adams. He is the only man to have signed all 4 documents surrounding the formation of the United States of America: The Continental Association of 1774, The Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation and The United States Constitution. He was a Judge of the Superior Court in New Haven, Connecticut, serving that office with distinction from 1766 until 1788. He served as Treasurer of Yale University from 1765 to 1776. He was renouned for his high intelligence and unswerving honesty and was described by John Adams “as honest as an angel and as
firm in the cause of American independence as Mount Atlas.” He served in the U.S.Senate from 1791 until his death in 1793.
Why is Roger Sherman*s name unfamiliar? HE WAS AN ENEMY OF PAPER MONEY!! In 1751, Roger Sherman and his brother William sued James Battle for paying a debt to their shop in New Milford, Connecticut, in depreciating paper currency. Over a period of 15 months, Battle had charged “divers wares and merchandizes” amounting to 129 pounds of what
Sherman assumed were pounds of Connecticut “Old Tenor”, a stable currency whose value were well preserved by taxation taking it out of circulation. But Battle assumed the debt was denominated in pounds of ever depreciating Rhode Island currency, tendered in same, and the Shermans took a beating in the payment and sued for recovery of loss by depreciation. The Shermans lost when Battle argued that he was merely following the accepted custom of the day. In 1752, Sherman wrote his book “A Caveat Against Injustice or An Inquiry into the Evils of a Fluctuating Medium of Exchange” indicting UNBACKED PAPER MONEY.
It was this experience that Sherman brought to the Constitutional Convention and prompted him to rise on August 28,1787 and propose new, more restrictive wording to Article 1,Section 10. The standing version under consideration was worded this way: “No state shall coin money; nor grant letters of marque and reprisal; nor enter into any Treaty, alliance, or confederation; nor grant any title of Nobility.” (From Madison’s Notes of the Convention) “Judge Sherman and Mr. Wilson moved to insert the words *coin money* the words *nor emit bills of credit, nor make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts* making these prohibitions absolute, instead of making the measures allowable with the consent of the Legislature of the U.S. Mr. Sherman thought this a FAVORABLE CRISIS FOR CRUSHING PAPER MONEY. If the consent of the Legislature could authorize emissions of it, the friends of paper money would make every exertion to get into the Legislature in order to license it.” Mr. Sherman*s and Mr. Wilson*s motion was quickly agreed to and became the supreme law of the land.
Some additional quotations to ponder:
“All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from a want of honor or virtue so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation” (John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 1787)
“I deny the power of the general government to making paper money, or anything else, a legal tender.” (Thomas Jefferson)
“You have been doubtless been informed, from time to time, of the happy progress of our affairs. The principal difficulties seem in great measure to have been surmounted. Our revenues have been considerably
more productive than it was imagined they would be. I mention this to show the spirit of enterprise that prevails.” (George Washington in a letter to the Marquis de LaFayette, June 3, 1790 AFTER the United States Constitution prohibited unbacked paper money at Article 1, Section 10)
“Since the federal constitution has removed all danger of our having a paper tender, our trade is advanced fifty percent. Our monied people can trust their cash abroad, and have brought their coin into circulation.” (December 16, 1789 edition of The Pennsylvania
Gazette)
“Our country, my dear sir, is fast progressing in its political importance and social happiness.” (George Washington in a letter to the Marquis de LaFayette, March 19, 1791)
“The United States enjoys a sense of prosperity and tranquility under the new government that could hardly have been hoped for.” (George Washington in a letter to Catherine Macaulay Graham, July 19,1791)
“Tranquility reigns among the people with that disposition towards the general government which is likely to preserve it. Our public credit stands on that high ground which three years ago would have been
considered as a species of madness to have foretold.” (George Washington in a letter to David Humphreys, July 20, 1791)
“It is apparent from the whole context of the Constitution as well as the times which gave birth to it, that it was the purpose of the Convention to establish a currency consisting of the precious metals.
These were adopted by a permanent rule excluding the use of a perishable medium of exchange, such as certain agricultural commodities recognized by the statutes of some States as tender for debts, or the still more pernicious expedient of PAPER CURRENCY.” (Andrew Jackson, 8th Annual Message to Congress, December 5, 1836)
DESPITE WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT IN SCHOOL, THE HISTORICAL RECORD IS CRYSTAL CLEAR: AMERICA WAS TO HAVE BEEN SPARED THE DESTRUCTIVE EFFECTS OF AN UNBACKED PAPER MONEY SYSTEM. MOST OF THE PROBLEMS WE FACE TODAY CAN BE TRACED TO WHAT ANDREW JACKSON CALLED “THE PERNICIOUS EXPEDIENT OF PAPER MONEY”.
HISTORY TEACHES THAT AN “ARTIFICIAL” MONEY CREATES AN “ARTIFICIAL” WORLD WHERE THE PRICE FOR SOME ITEM...EVEN OUR MOST POPULAR WELFARE “PROGRAM”...CAN BE DEFERRED TO FUTURE GENERATIONS (OUR $11 TRILLION
NATIONAL DEBT) OR PAID WITH A “MONEY” CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR WHICH ROBS THE VALUE FROM THE MONEY WE MIGHT BE UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE IN OUR POCKETS AT THAT MOMENT (INFLATION). AND ONE THING YOU MUST REMEMBER ABOUT INFLATION IS THAT IT IS NOT AN “EQUAL OPPORTUNITY” DESTROYER: THOSE FIRST IN LINE TO GET THEIR HANDS ON THE NEW MONEY ROLLING OFF THE PRESSES (THE MODERN FRIENDS OF PAPER MONEY) HAVE A CHANCE TO SPEND IT BEFORE IT LOSES ITS VALUE. THE LITTLE PEOPLE (THAT’S US, FOLKS!) FARTHEST DOWN THE LINE ARE THE ONES WHO FEEL THE FULLEST EFFECTS OF THIS DESTRUCTIVE PROCESS.
ping awesome
One enterprising gentlemen went into the counterfeiting business by buying gold on the open market, minting his own sovereigns and making some pretty good bucks because of the premium.
Eventually the British government caught up with him and charged him with counterfeiting. To their embarrassment, the "counterfeit" coins had slightly more gold content than the originals. The guy wasn't a crook - just an entrepreneur who said he wanted to give his customers "good measure". The govt coughed and let him go with a Swartzeneger-type "Don't do that."
In the Von NotHaus case, it seems the government is scared of real competition. I haven't seen the guy's ads, but if he did infer they were government-sanctioned, he will have a problem with marketing hype, but nothing that warrants confiscation.
Two paragraphs caught my eye: The Justice Department has not followed up with any criminal charges against Mr. Von NotHaus or the regional distributors of his coins.
A 1999 report by the Southern Poverty Law Center said that many of the stores that accepted liberty dollars "are run by men and women connected to the radical right."
First off, it appears that the Justice boys don't see a case here. Secondly, it looks like another attack on those eeevil radical right types. You know, those who believe in REAL money.
Seven tons of precious metal has to be some big bucks, depending upon the mix, big and BIGGER. I wouldn't put it past the FBI and SS to just be greedy.
Sound money bump
So, here we are, coins made of precious metal are seized by a criminal government with no charges filed against those who have had their property seized. All on the claim that the precious metal coins are being illegally circulated, meanwhile the government circulates ONLY worthless, effectively counterfeit money in direct opposition to a constitutional mandate requiring precious metal currency. No government that operates in such a fashion has any right to expect its citizens to obey the law while the government makes a mockery of the law.
Forty five years ago as a young sailor I read “Atlas Shrugged”, now I am living it.
It could be that OUR generation will go down in history (if there IS a history of this period written by the evil men who prevail) as the one that allowed America -- the IDEA not the PLACE -- to slip from our grasp.
And at one time I believed that our grandkids might attempt to reclaim it with blood and arms. But the government schools are gradually conditioning them to accept the New World Order and what, to us, would be an unbearable existence will, to them, be the norm.
My only hope is that they won’t dig us all up so they might spit in our faces for not halting the process while we could still do so.
Sorry to be so dark about all of this – and it COULD turn around due to some event(s) we cannot even predict from here. I pray that will be so.
Guess I shouldn’t listen to Beethoven’s String Quartet 13 as I write these.
Next time I’ll play “Don’t Worry, Be Happy.”
Thanks for your post. Great info.
With gold currently at $900 per ounce, there’s not enough gold and silver to back all the paper money in circulation. How would that problem be addressed?
Wouldn’t the value of gold need to rise many multiples to cover the paper dollars?
And with the supply of gold limited, wouldn’t that hinder lending? It seems to me that the fractional banking system allows for the expansion of money for lending, thus contributing to economic expansion.
Then again, the great cities like St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, San Francisco were built under the gold standard.
Just asking.....
I believe I can hear the rustle of the Gold Bug haters and friends of paper money as they gather in the trees before descending upon this thread with their sophomoric attempts at sarcasm...
Yes, here they come now.
Apparently Morris Dees and his meddlesome minions never sleep.
fascinating - nothing in the MSM or the PM on this
More info from a previous post with the seizure warrant in pdf: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1927235/posts
A 1999 report by the Southern Poverty Law Center said that many of the stores that accepted liberty dollars "are run by men and women connected to the radical right."
Morris Dees should thank his lucky stars I'm not POTUS or Attorney General. I'd have him and his merry band of communists all rounded up, on trial for sedition, RICO, and other crimes against the USA, then convicted - faster than you can say Habeas Corpus.
Then while he and his fellow commie travelers were rotting away in some secret prison in Romania, or better yet - Uzbekistan, for those crimes I'd go after them for Federal Civil Rights violations of anyone they'd ever publicly smeared.
And at one time I believed that our grandkids might attempt to reclaim it with blood and arms. But the government schools are gradually conditioning them to accept the New World Order and what, to us, would be an unbearable existence will, to them, be the norm.
My only hope is that they won’t dig us all up so they might spit in our faces for not halting the process while we could still do so.
Hey, that last line is a wrinkle I hadn't pondered, until now!
I'm afraid that paper money appeals to the same set of irrational desires and impulses that animate the other aspects of modern utopian totalitarianism - the desire to possess the unearned. As we know all too well, this path leads not to justice, equality and happiness, but to death only.
The government needs the power to create money at will for the same dark reasons it needs the power to lie, steal, and kill - "for the public good and general welfare".
The b*stards have no shame.
Paper money is now being increasingly supplanted by electronic credits, easily manipulated and tracked and with no physical presence at all. No doubt the plan is to eliminate even worthless paper money, with its attendant production costs, and along with it, all possibility of private cash transactions. I wonder what the founders would have thought of that.
Of course the result will be an underground economy based on some form of hard currency - Liberty Dollars? But the masses will swipe their cards (Or have their implanted chip scanned) for every transaction.
This boil is coming to a head. It’s going to be very interesting in the US the next few years. Very interesting, beginning next week with SCOTUS announcement of the Heller decision.
Certainly the US constitution specifically says none of the *states* may coin as money, anything *but* gold or silver coin. But in the era of this supreme court and this activist, intrusive federal government, who could possibly confuse the sanction of the US constitution, with that of the mere government?
No state may "make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts"
But then, it is also explicit in the constitution that no state may coin money - without restriction.
Since none of these private people are US states, however, I fail to see any violation of anything, in any of it.
Personally I have no problem with bank notes, bank accounts, credit money, the Fed, any of it. My preferred means of payment is a bank credit card and my preferred store of value is diversified portfolio investment. But this sort of highhandedness is just plain silly, and it should stop yesterday. Let people use whatever they heck they want.
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