Posted on 07/31/2008 4:27:41 PM PDT by LAforme2008
Female transsexuals may have their genes to blame for feeling like they belong to the wrong sex.
Scientists identified a specific gene variant in female-to-male transsexuals that meant they had been exposed to higher levels of sex hormones during their early development.
Almost half the female-to-male transsexuals in the study carried the gene variant.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
Whatever its underlying cause, it is very real and those that experience do not do so from mental illness, but from their earliest age recognized that they were very different than the other boys around them.
Not all are drag queens and flamboyant "fags"
Others just want to appear on the outside, who they know they are on the inside, and have known since 3 -4 years of age.
BTW - where did you go to med school?
Explains a lot about Barbara Boxer and Hillary Clinton.....
People have either XX or XY genes that make them either man or woman. True there are the rare hermaphodites in between, but you can’t compare that to transsexualism or cross-dressing.
“Like bell-bottom, hip-hugger, or embroidered?”
Or Gene Simmons, Gene Autry ...
One's anatomy plays a huge role in how the world see's that person and how that person is required to interact with the world, but one's anatomy and chromosomes do not determine who they are.
Is it simply breasts and a vagina that make a woman significantly different in personality than a man?
Why do women like the things they like and do the things they do? Is it because they have a vagina? Obviously not.
There is something innately different about women. I don't mean anatomically or physiologically. I mean with how they interact in the world.
Babies are born with defects all day long. Some of those defects are very visible.
Why is it impossible to understand or believe that a baby could be born male, but innately they are female? It's no fault of their's.
Freddie Mercury drag queens and cross-dressers are offensive to me, and I believe they do so to shock, or excite certain segments of society. I think they do a gross disservice to those people that were born into bodies and lives that they did not feel at home in. Their personalities did not match who they were on the inside and they simply wished to live life, and express themselves in a manner that was more comfortable with who they really are.
Would you consider a baby born with some visible physical defect, a freak? Why then someone that is born into a body that does not reflect their personality and interests?
“One’s chromosomes determine anatomy.”
—Agreed.
“Your anatomy does not determine who you are.”
—Sorry, I don’t buy that secular humanist pap.
“One’s anatomy plays a huge role in how the world see’s that person and how that person is required to interact with the world, but one’s anatomy and chromosomes do not determine who they are.”
—Anatomy is the physical reality of a man or woman’s identity. It’s not to be confused with free will. If a man wants to think he’s a woman, he can choose to do that, but it doesn’t negate the physical reality of his XY chromosome. He is living in a delusion.
“Is it simply breasts and a vagina that make a woman significantly different in personality than a man?”
—Along with the physical reality of anatomy, there is also the mental and spiritual realm.
“Why do women like the things they like and do the things they do? Is it because they have a vagina? Obviously not.”
—Having a vagina is only part of it. Don’t forget about the mental and spiritual parts of a whole person.
“There is something innately different about women. I don’t mean anatomically or physiologically. I mean with how they interact in the world.”
—Innately means they were born with an XX chromasome. And yes, I agree women are innately different than men.
“Babies are born with defects all day long. Some of those defects are very visible.”
—Agree. But most transsexuals don’t have this issue. They are either clearly XX or XY. The deviation most likely is mental or spiritual.
“Why is it impossible to understand or believe that a baby could be born male, but innately they are female? It’s no fault of their’s.”
—Because innately a person is born either XX or XY, unless there is a genetic defect of the hermaphrodite. The case there is very rare.
“Freddie Mercury drag queens and cross-dressers are offensive to me, and I believe they do so to shock, or excite certain segments of society. I think they do a gross disservice to those people that were born into bodies and lives that they did not feel at home in.”
—I don’t think Freddie Mercury was an actual transsexual. He didn’t have the surgery, did he? I though he was only a theatrical homosexual. Are you mixing up cross-dressers with transsexuals?
“Their personalities did not match who they were on the inside and they simply wished to live life, and express themselves in a manner that was more comfortable with who they really are.”
—This is a mental/spiritual issue, which has nothing to do with genetics.
“Would you consider a baby born with some visible physical defect, a freak?”
—Not so much a ‘freak,’ but an anomaly. Having a mix-up concerning XX and XY is not normal. But most transsexuals don’t have this problem.
“Why then someone that is born into a body that does not reflect their personality and interests?”
—For the majority of transsexuals, the problem is mental and spiritual. People have the free will to choose their interests, and the personality is also a reflection of mental state. Just because a man wishes he could be a woman doesn’t make is so, even after surgery. The reality of anatomy cannot be denied.
The woman who had surgery to “make her a man” recently had a baby. She may think she’s a man, and media and society may call her a man, but she had a baby. She’s a woman—a very confused woman. That can’t be denied.
“Your anatomy does not determine who you are.”
—Sorry, I don’t buy that secular humanist pap.
Let me add this, too. The creator made us man or woman. We aren’t God. We didn’t get a choice between XX or XY when we were forming in our mothers’ wombs.
“Your anatomy does not determine who you are” in regards to gender is rebellion against the creator.
“Let me add this, too. The creator made us man or woman.”
Not everybody believes that there is a “creator” or a “god.”
“Not everybody believes that there is a “creator” or a “god.””
You are 100% correct. We have the free will to believe or not believe in God.
But that still doesn’t negate the fact that people are born either XX or XY, aside from rare exceptions otherwise.
“One’s chromosomes determine anatomy. Your anatomy does not determine who you are.”
It can even be more complicated. Example: Women, who have androgen insensitivity syndrome. They have breasts and a vagina, but they are actually XY. Why? There is a gene on the X chromosome called AR, the androgen receptor. In their case, the gene is an anomaly, and will not allow the transport of androgen across the cell membrane. They do identify as women.
Yet, another example: Women with complet gonadal agenesis, who are XY, and have a vagina, uterus, and fallopian tubes, but no gonads. They fail to develop breasts, and require hormone therapy to physically mature. They also develop a female gender identity.
Then, let’s examine the case of girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia. There is a genetic anomaly, that blocks the production of cortisol. The result is high levels of androgens in the fetal blood stream. Typically, these individuals exhibit various degrees of physical masculinization (fusing of the labia, enlargement of the clitoris, etc.) Behaviorally, they are referred to as tomboys, and some research has indicated about 40% of them are lesbian. In extreme cases, the labia will completely fuse, and the clitoris will become a phallus. The child will most probably identify as a boy, even though they are XX.
In short then you're saying, "God makes babies and God does not make mistakes. Therefore claiming to be a woman makes God a liar and for him to change would be a sin against God."
Explain all the birth defects that exit in the world. Including chromosonal mistakes that exist in determining what anatomical gender a person is?
Yes, God is responsible for the soul of a person, which is the seat of their personality. The soul is where the intellect, likes, dislikes, &etc come from.
You mean to tell me that with all the defects that occur in a fallen world including chromosonal defects, that it is not possible for the soul of a person, that is essentially feminine in nature, to occur in a foetus that develops as a male? Bullshit!
Transsexual don't decide as a passing thought, "Wouldn't be fun to be a woman?"
They struggle all their lives with the fact that they are essentially different than the other people that anatomically look like them. People with dicks.
They're not good at sports, they don't fit in with crowds of men. They have no innate interest in the things that men do, I could go on almost endlessly. However, put them in a room full of women and they fit right in. They excel. Why? Because they are amongst their own.
Are they pussies or wimps -- YES!, but only because they've got a swinging dick. Who they are on the inside is not who they are on the outside. Anatomical women are not pussies and wimps. Why? Because their bodies are inline with who their soul is on the inside.
Transsexuals spend years trying to hide, run from, and suppress the fact that they are not like all the other guys. They try harder. They compete harder, they join the military, they get tattoos, they fight. Not because they like those things, but because they are trying to convince themselves and others that they are just the same, when deep inside they know they are not.
And after years of failing to fit in many turn to suicide. The braver ones, that openly express who they are inwardly, are often killed by those that are freaked out by them. Would you kill an 9-legged baby -- one of God's mistakes or would you fix her through science and medicine?
Shit happens it's a fallen world people are born all the time with defects. It's not mental. Drugs, counseling, repentance, and hanging out with the guys more often does not fix it. I should know. I'm 44 years old. I still got my swinging dick and my tattoos, but inwardly I'm not like the rest of you. I've understood since I was 3 years old.
I'm a christian too. A very conservative one too, but I can't change the fact of who I am. Repentance didn't fix me.
I would still rather be in the kitchen with the women.
Its where I fit in. Trying living in two worlds for 44 years sometime. Its not easy.
Anyhow I'm out. Call me a pussy to my face and I'll kick your a$$.
Give me shit in this forum or any other forum and I will hunt you down in your little world and beat you.
“Obviously you are a christian.”
—Yes, I am.
“In short then you’re saying, “God makes babies and God does not make mistakes. Therefore claiming to be a woman makes God a liar and for him to change would be a sin against God.”
—No, please don’t put words in my mouth. I do agree God doesn’t make mistakes, but a man claiming to be a woman makes the man a “liar”. A man cannot change into a woman, and thinking he can is a delusion.
“Explain all the birth defects that exit in the world. Including chromosonal mistakes that exist in determining what anatomical gender a person is?”
—This is an imperfect, fallen world. As I said before, there are the few chromosomal anomalies—like the ones described in post 32—but most transsexuals don’t suffer that type of physical deviation.
“Yes, God is responsible for the soul of a person, which is the seat of their personality. The soul is where the intellect, likes, dislikes, &etc come from.”
—God gave us a soul. He gave us responsibility for it on Earth through free will.
“You mean to tell me that with all the defects that occur in a fallen world including chromosonal defects, that it is not possible for the soul of a person, that is essentially feminine in nature, to occur in a foetus that develops as a male? Bullshit!”
—No need to cuss at me, please don’t. I agree there are people that are truly suffering a chromosomal anomaly, but they represent the rare case and are outside of what I’m talking about here. For the most part, I think that recent campaigns to link sin (addiction, homosexuality, gender confusion, etc.) to genetic causes are attempts to rationalize, normalize and excuse destructive behavior. Alot of deviant behavior today is chosen behavior, not a result of genetic anomalies.
“Transsexual don’t decide as a passing thought, “Wouldn’t be fun to be a woman?”
—I never thought that.
“They struggle all their lives with the fact that they are essentially different than the other people that anatomically look like them. People with dicks.”
—I can imagine it would be a struggle.
They’re not good at sports, they don’t fit in with crowds of men. They have no innate interest in the things that men do, I could go on almost endlessly. However, put them in a room full of women and they fit right in. They excel. Why? Because they are amongst their own.”
—They choose that. But the truth is they aren’t women.
“Are they pussies or wimps — YES!, but only because they’ve got a swinging dick.”
—It’s wrong to call them names.
“Who they are on the inside is not who they are on the outside. Anatomical women are not pussies and wimps. Why? Because their bodies are inline with who their soul is on the inside.
Transsexuals spend years trying to hide, run from, and suppress the fact that they are not like all the other guys. They try harder. They compete harder, they join the military, they get tattoos, they fight. Not because they like those things, but because they are trying to convince themselves and others that they are just the same, when deep inside they know they are not.”
—They need help.
“And after years of failing to fit in many turn to suicide. The braver ones, that openly express who they are inwardly, are often killed by those that are freaked out by them. Would you kill an 9-legged baby — one of God’s mistakes or would you fix her through science and medicine?”
—Yes, they need help.
“Shit happens it’s a fallen world people are born all the time with defects. It’s not mental. Drugs, counseling, repentance, and hanging out with the guys more often does not fix it. I should know. I’m 44 years old. I still got my swinging dick and my tattoos, but inwardly I’m not like the rest of you. I’ve understood since I was 3 years old.
I’m a christian too. A very conservative one too, but I can’t change the fact of who I am. Repentance didn’t fix me.”
—Repentance is admitting you are a sinner (like me, like everyone). Did you ask Jesus Christ to save you? This is the most important question. Are you truly one in His body?
“I would still rather be in the kitchen with the women.
Its where I fit in. Trying living in two worlds for 44 years sometime. Its not easy.”
—That is your personal challenge in this world. For the most part, everyone has their personal demons to deal with. We have the proverbial “thorn in the side” in some form or another. Please don’t give up the fight and succumb.
“Anyhow I’m out. Call me a pussy to my face and I’ll kick your a$$.”
—I appreciate your honesty and being up front. But I’m not going to call you any name or think badly of you, so you don’t need to threaten me.
“Give me shit in this forum or any other forum and I will hunt you down in your little world and beat you.”
—Ditto. I’m not going to give you a hard time, and ask you not to give me one. I would much rather continue the good discussion we’ve been having.
I want to add...
I can’t know exactly how you feel, considering I don’t have the same challenge as you. But I have faced huge challenges, and still do.
Do you mind if I pray for your godly guidance, wisdom, strength and confort?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
Intersexuality is the state of a living thing of a gonochoristic species whose sex chromosomes, genitalia, and/or secondary sex characteristics are determined to be neither exclusively male nor female. An organism with intersex may have biological characteristics of both the male and female sexes...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome
Klinefelter's syndrome, 47,XXY or XXY syndrome is a condition caused by a chromosome aneuploidy. Affected individuals have at least two X chromosomes and at least one Y chromosomes...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), also referred to as androgen resistance syndrome, is a set of disorders of sexual differentiation caused by mutations of the gene encoding the androgen receptor... A person with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) has a female external appearance despite a 46XY karyotype and undescended testes, a condition termed "testicular feminization" in the past.
These are some of the most common physical / biological examples. With known examples like these, I think it's possible that some people can have brains that are wired for the opposite gender, or are not completely wired male/female. We just can't confirm what's is in really in someone's mind yet (maybe a good thing considering possible government misuse). But it doesn't make these people liars, or mean that they should just shut up and suffer in silence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
Intersexuality is the state of a living thing of a gonochoristic species whose sex chromosomes, genitalia, and/or secondary sex characteristics are determined to be neither exclusively male nor female. An organism with intersex may have biological characteristics of both the male and female sexes...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome
Klinefelter's syndrome, 47,XXY or XXY syndrome is a condition caused by a chromosome aneuploidy. Affected individuals have at least two X chromosomes and at least one Y chromosomes...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), also referred to as androgen resistance syndrome, is a set of disorders of sexual differentiation caused by mutations of the gene encoding the androgen receptor... A person with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) has a female external appearance despite a 46XY karyotype and undescended testes, a condition termed "testicular feminization" in the past.
marking this thread
“These are some of the most common physical / biological examples. With known examples like these, I think it’s possible that some people can have brains that are wired for the opposite gender, or are not completely wired male/female. We just can’t confirm what’s is in really in someone’s mind yet (maybe a good thing considering possible government misuse). But it doesn’t make these people liars, or mean that they should just shut up and suffer in silence.”
You posted good examples of the chromosomal anomalies, which are genuine physical conditions outside the norm people have to deal with. I mention those in my earlier posts.
These are rare conditions that are separate from the campaign to redefine gender as something subjective that can be chosen by mentally ill or spiritually confused people living in delusion.
It’s wrong to tell people with serious problems that they can’t help themselves because they were born that way if it’s not true. That’s not loving.
I don’t believe anyone facing these issues should shut up and suffer in silence. They need help and support in truth and love.
You still think that chromosome determine the innate (not carnate) nature of a person's soul even though you repeatedly admit that it is God that puts the soul of a person into that person.
All that DNA and chromosomes can do is determine who you are anatomically. It has no bearing on who you are as a person. Consider all the things that YOU ViLaLuz like and dislike. Consider all the innate (not carnate) characteristics of who you are. Personality, etc. You mean to tell me that your chromosomes determined who you are? The very unique ViLaLuz is no more different than the next person, because you have the same chromosonal makeup as the next person?
If you are determined by your chromosomes and by extension your DNA, then who you are as a person could be flawed and could need fixing -- no?
Who are you? Consider how unique you are -- and you say that you're nothing more than an XY chromosome. Those two characteristics determined that you love pizza and hate sushi. That you are good at mechanics but suck at sewing. That when you are standing in the kitchen with your wife and her friends you feel like an alien, an outsider, but in the company of other men you're at home.
Again I ask, who are you? Are you nothing more than conditioned responses to the world you live in because you were born with a penis? Are you fluid and changeable to your surroundings? Your chromosomes don't determine who you are in your soul. God does and yet it is still a fallen world. You may have been born with a penis because you were born with an XY chomosome, but are you who you really are because of the anatomical thing between your legs.
Anyhow, I hope you see my point.
It is a fallen world and people are born with defects all the time. We fix them when we can.
Trust me its not mental. Hanging out with the guys more often doesn't fix it. In fact it worsens the problem. It exacerbates it. It provides a sharp contrast between who guys innately are and who a trannsexual is. They are forced to pretend that they are one of the guys.
Part of my crankiness in this morning's response was that I was up late providing security for a Rock Concert. Afterwards I had to stand around with the guys and drink beers and smoke cigars as we BSed about cars, jobs, wives etc -- all the things that guys innately do, and all the while I'm reminded that "I don't fit in."
And I haven't fit in since I first understood at age 3.
It doesn't go away. You cant repent it away.
What if at some point someone convinced you that who you are (ViLaLuz) was a sin and needed to be repented of. Could you do it. Would God accept your repentance? Would he make you someone else.
Who one is, is not a mental choice, "Oh I wish I were a woman."
One realizes "I'm different. I don't fit in with the guys. I get along with women better." etc. Anyhow, I'm done.
YOu can pray for me all you want. I will likewise pray for you, and for the church, that you might understand the issue more accurately and judge with righteous judgment.
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