Posted on 08/15/2008 3:12:08 AM PDT by cyberslave
You both seem to know something and are alluding to it on a public forum. Either a) you are full of crap and have no idea if anything is ‘going on”, or b) you are bordering on violating OpSec by hinting at an impending attack?
Which is it?
Is she a maverick, or is she doing as the President has instructed?
Its called speculation - look into it.
There is enough published information out there to support any of the speculations postulated in this thread - except of course the Forbes inference. Enough information even for you to follow along.
You accuse one or all of us of either being full of it or committing treason - that is not a good way to make friends.
Although I have been around a bit and happen to be privy to some things, I have not alluded to anything I am privy to and I am no where near violating any of the many National Security Agreements I have signed so ease up.
Speculation from someone who admits that they’re privy to information and have signed numerous National Security Agreements? Ok.
yes - speculation.
Sometimes speculation is just speculation.
What I am privy to has nothing to do with this area, either operations or situational intel and I protest your insistence to the contrary.
You are beginning to annoy me with your accusations.
People who post speculation in a tone that implies it is fact annoy me. We’ll call it a draw if you would like.
Peace is often offered prior to an attack.
There are things going on that you don’t know.
Which of the above statements do you believe to be not factual?
Russia is Condi's specialty - it is documented in her Bio - look it up.
Peace is often offered before an attack - that also is documented and has been used by most nations prior to war.
There are things going on you don't know - yep, just because it hasn't beep published doesn't mean it hasn't happened, Freepers are good but there are things that are secret. You will find me tolerant and patient without a barb in every post.
I think we were surprised by the aggressiveness of Ivan’s move into Georgia. Frankly, what we (IMO) have to do right now is buy time and pour, and I mean pour resources into the region. We have to change our entire military posture now, and that will take time. Of course, Russia can figure we’re going to do that, so if they think they can mount a major realignment of the political structure in Eastern Europe, they might just figure they need to keep pushing.
At any rate, apparently this turkey of an agreement has been agreed to, but the russkies have agreed to all of the cease fires that have been offered, and I haven’t seen them back up or back off at all.
In fact, they seem to be aggressively intimidating the “journalists” now. I’m pretty sure I remember them advising them all to leave the military zone recently. I shouldn’t say this, but it’s almost refreshing - the bear’s declination to dance to Big Media’s tune. I mean, I can admire their brazenness, even though it’s wrong, wrong, wrong. For once someone is cutting through the crap and just doing what they want to do.
Besides, we don’t seem to deal well with peace. We need a challenge to get us all pulling in the same direction. I wish there was an easier, softer way to get us to do that, but I’ve never seen one, nor have I read about one in history.
I’m sure she’s doing what she was told to do by Bush.
I have to agree with you, Russia is going for the gold here and I wonder if Condi has the stones to further the Presidents agenda on this matter.
I’d like to see the fine print on that treaty ;)
I know we’re sending “humanitarian aid” in by the boatload and I’d like to see that “aid” used productively - I’m glad to see no jig was danced to get that started.
I wonder if Russia figured that Poland would sign the missile defense shield agreement over this? It seems we peed in their cereal over that deal.
You bet she does, but there are complications...
First and most important is that the EU is sitting on it's usual highchair and doing nothing, with the exception of France.....(now that is unusual).
I'm not seeing or hearing the support that both we and Georgia will need, and if we push the EU, we will lose any sway we have with NATO and that is absolutely critical.
I don't know if it is more a matter of time that is needed or if they are just too afraid.
Whatever the case, we need them. We simply must bring them into the fold against Russia.
Keeping in mind that Georgia effectively lost control of those provinces in 1921. The reason the issue heated up as it did was because Russia was fomenting violence directed at Georgians who both live in the area and are part of a guard, in opposition to the Russian contingent. They were too close to prevent this from occurring and fact that this situation exists, was a Russian idea to begin with that was designed to undermine any Independence movement from within Georgia.
The Independence will fail without our help, and of that there is no doubt. First task is to get the Bolsheviks back into their corners, and from that, the only best course of action is to rearm and reequip the Georgians, while at the same time, doing the same thing with everyone who is willing to come to the party.
May the best man.....woman...come out on top.
I give the peace about 26 weeks to rearm, maybe less.
We don't have a lot of time.
For what? Two separatist regions will allegiance to Russia?
Russia could care less about these districts. They want to increase their sphere of influence to what it was, and bigger, and that will come at the expense of the EU, so they must get off their cans and at least jack up the rhetoric to match the threat. These two districts, I will call them, one Islamic, the other ethnic Christian are remnant of a old ruse used by the Soviets in 1921. The Islamic area, contrary to Russian protestations was peaceful and not lobbing mortars at the Georgian troops, however the other was. That's what caused the response and the previously prepared counter response, It was all a pre-planned set up.
Georgia is just a pawn in this. The prize is to push the U.S. completely out, and intimidate the rest of the old Soviet union back into Momma's arms.
If we go, we leave the EU unprotected and they need to understand this. If we stay, there will be more confrontations, and you can make book on it because Putin has a plan, and that plan has been put into motion more than 5 years ago.
It's not about the stupid little people who have always been Russian sympathizers and a thorn in the side of any independent Georgia now and in 1921. They are created to be tripwires and they are used to re-establish Russian control on the occasions where they lose it. They have done this all before. The names have changed, but the tactic is exactly the same.
Georgia is but the first casualty....Much more to come if we fail and we will fail if the EU fails.
What do you think the purpose is for the Palestinian area in Israel. Is is just some separatist region with allegiance to Hezbolla? Or was it created with a defined purpose?
Likewise, these separatist regions in Georgia will never be rectified until the benefactor who created them is destroyed or neutered.
It's really quite simple. But doing it is going to be problematic, and we cannot fail.
This game needs to be reworked. We can no longer grow or prosper without full engagement in the world. We are rich but relatively small country in terms of numbers, and we rely heavily on technology for weapons and projected power and not on Armies.
If we continue to be unwilling to use that power to right the wrongs that will eventually unbalance the global trading systems that nourish us and sustain out existence, it will all fall apart and we will become a needy third rate democracy, if that.
I am seeing and reading a lot of posts by people who I would not expect to be making isolationist comments regarding the situation in Georgia. These people are friends, allies, and share our views. Many Americans are related to Georgians and other in this area. The Polish, Chech's, Slav's and dozens more. I am one of them. They are, to use a common vernacular, "My Peeps"! They are our family in many ways.
For so many years, after the the Russians essentially seized so many of these countries by force, we worried about them, yet could never talk to them or travel without risk to life and limb, or often you simply could not communicate in any way.
After the wall fell, I remember how good it felt to think it was over and the world was going to be much improved. If you have not figured it out yet, that dream has ended. It's over! The Bear is Back!
I suffered through the last cold war, just like everyone else of my age. We learned to hide under our school desks, we learned about fallout shelters, experienced fallout from nuke tests and we learned how to survive a nuclear war if possible, but we never were taught to hate the Bear. Not even after all they did.
When the wall fell, I had little animosity and welcomed them into the free world. Even got drunk with some Russian sailors one night and had a great time.
All that has now ended.
This time, I will not hide under a desk.
I will not participate in fallout shelter drills.
I will not invest in a backyard or basement shelter, or civil defense supplies.
I will not allow that to ever happen again and I will die fighting before experiencing it a second time.
I will NOT BE AFRAID AGAIN!!!!
That's about all for now. Thanks for your time.
Interesting summery. I’ve read similar summaries by others here on FR and I have been enlightened as to some of the history.
I am not up to speed on the relationships between NATO and the EU (other than the obvious geopolitical) and the influences they have upon each other, but it seems to me that if Russia goes unchecked and the EU prevents NATO from protecting its members, the EU could very well be in line for the Georgian treatment. Wouldn’t it behoove the EU to be supportive?
Not only a good idea, but absolutely critical to the process, if we are to stop a war.
The Russians and most societies with militaristic Nationalism as a core belief that defines them, will always move their pieces closer to the prize of their goal when they perceive weakness. They do this by testing the metal of the opponent and constantly probing for a weak point. This is and has always been their tactics since inception.
NATO is the only thing standing between the Russians and the entire world in many respects. It was created for this purpose. That's it's mission.
After the wall fell, the EU tried to redefine that mission as a friendly invitation to Russia to enter the world community. From the beginning of this effort, the Russians saw this purely as a weakness and started probing. Bush has tried to reverse this.
After a few years and many dashed hopes like "Perestroika (sp) and other events, they returned back to their normal predictable ways, and under Putin, the chess board is now set for confrontation after confrontation with the entities they plan to become part of their sphere of influence. To make it all happen, NATO must be disbanded or weakened by unwilling members and that has been accomplished with Germany who replaced France as the weakest point.
I am not 100% familiar with the charter, but one weak knee'd member can change the dynamics and cause a NATO effort to be hampered, if not abandoned. They only recently did this when they denied membership to Georgia until more time had passed, which resulted in what we have today.
The Euro's have always had a problem and it's based largely on politics and easy for Russia to manipulate. They have a more pure form of Democracy and are unable and unwilling to go against public opinion polls. This is the primary weakness of Democracy which is why we have a Republic. Stalin himself identified this weakness many decades ago and even wrote about it and how he planned to undermine it.
What we see now and have seen from Russia was telegraphed long ago and they have done exactly what they said they would do, to the last dotted "i" and crossed "T".
I have too been a huge supporter of Bush..and am now dissapointed in him. And the lefty administration state dept beaurocrats that said ‘Saakashvilli shouldn’t have moved into Ossetia.” Yeesh, with people like this, who needs enemies.Why don’t we just have our state dept contact Moscow directly for what they should say.
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