College Daze: Instead of helping high school grads grow up, colleges prolong childhood

Forbes ^ | September 1, 2008 | Charles Murray

[Snickering Hound]

News Flash, college was the same way 80 years ago...

[Ouderkirk]

I’m sure that Casey Anthony disproves that theory

[reaganaut1]

‘And this pathetic trend probably started when the first lib professor uttered this in his classroom:
Don’t call me Mr. Peterson. Mr. Peterson is my father. Just call me Bill.”’

What bothers me even more is when I’m on a plane and am told that the pilots will be “Jim and Bob”. I don’t care if they are “friendly”. I want them to be serious and competent.

I remember in grad school that my advisor *insisted* that the Korean post-doc call him “Richard”, when post-doc was much more comfortable with “Dr. Smith”. You don’t address your professor by his first name in Korea.

[Dawn531]

Exactly our sentiment. Our son fast tracked college by using dual credit, so he graduated college at 19...our advice was to keep going and do graduate work because once you’re “out of the groove” it’s really hard to get back in (we speak from personal experience, since my husband went back to school in his late 20’s.) So he’s in grad school with folks much older, and some of them have “gone back to school” and even though work intensive, it’s not as hard for him as for some of the older students. Plus he has no family responsibilities (wife, kids)...so he can spend all weekend on a project and not have to try to balance school, work, and family.

[taxcontrol]

I skipped college and went straight in. Best thing for me. Did my 7 years and have occasionally gone to a college class that I have needed from time to time. I do not have an degree, not even an associates.... However, I make more per year that the VAST majority of degreed individuals. Not because I’m smarter than other ... but because I have a sense of morals, dedication to getting the job done and team oriented work ethic.

All of which I credit the military for providing the instruction I needed and the discipline to make sure I learned it.

[Aquinasfan]

They are no longer a good place for young people to make the transition from childhood to adulthood. Today's colleges are structured to prolong adolescence, not to midwife maturity.

Absolutely. Here's a list of some college benefits:

-Learn nothing with worthless courses.
-Learn deadly postmodern ideologies which will take years for young skulls full of mush to unravel.
-Learn a host of vices, from promiscuity to drug and alcohol abuse, deadly habits which will be hard to shake.
-Learn that your parents' religion is backwards.
-Lose four years of earnings.
-Lose four years of work experience.
-Lose four years of apprenticeship.
-Lose anywhere from $0-$200k on tuition & expenses.
-Develop an entitlement mentality.
-Develop laziness and poor work habits.
-Develop an antipathy toward any kind of authority.

There are probably many more that I've forgotten at the moment. I DON'T want my kids to go to college, unless it's one of ten orthodox Catholic colleges, and even then, I'm ambivalent about it.

[sassbox]

Oh how I wish you were right, but watch daytime TV for an afternoon, visit your local social services agency, talk with anyone who’s worked in the prison system or the family court system, or observe an Obama rally, and you’ll see that for people who are already immature and badly behaved, having a baby is rarely a “magic bullet” for maturity and responsible adulthood.

[wbill]

Got my engineering degree from a large state school in the 90s. My profs got called "Professor " both to their faces and behind their backs. They weren't afraid to flunk us, either.

My electives (Psyche, Econ) were a whole lot more touchy-feely though. My Macro prof talked up this "HUGE PAPER" for 1/2 the semester. Turned out to be 3-5 pages, double spaced; I did it the night before it was due. Funny part was that about 1/2 the class couldn't handle it.

[Night Hides Not]

I’m doing ROTC in college... does that count?

Of course that counts! In my day, there was much disparity in ROTC requirements at universities.

In comparing notes during ROTC "summer camp", some schools had minimal requirements outside of class, while my ROTC requirements averaged 10-15 hours/week outside of class.

In addition to extracurriculars (Ranger, rifle team, drill team, etc), we had one Saturday a month for small unit tactics, and 4 days at Fort Lewis for "Spring Camp", which ruined any chance for partaking in Spring Break festivities.

I was thankful for all of that infantry training when I was an Air Defense Artillery platoon leader. One of my "extra duties" was commanding an Augmentation Reserve Force of 40 ADA soldiers in support of a local Nike Hercules battery (in case they were attacked by terrorists). Fortunately, the only times we ever deployed were during nuclear surety evaluations (2-3 times a year).

[Ditto]

The light workload alone can make college today a joke. The most recent data say that students self-report only about 14 hours per week spent studying (the true figure is presumably lower).

The rule of thumb when started college was 3 hours of study for each hour of class time.

[fightinJAG]

I am very ambivalent about college for my children.

I think the best thing for them is to get a college degree without, actually, going to college (or at least not going to the traditional 4-5 year on campus route).

There are many other options today. A motivated, smart kid can put together enough credits to get a degree, plus get started on his working life, and avoid the downside of going off to college.

[Stat-boy]

What you say is completely true, and an accurate description of the college experience for many, if not a majority, of students.

But it’s not always the way you have it. Right now I can think of many fine kids in college who are not wasting away their time. The important thing is for the student to have his or her head straight before they go away to college; thus, they know how to succeed in spite of the overwhelming immaturity and irresponsibility of the other students.

Actually, for a good student, I wonder if college is easier today than a few generations ago. If only a portion of the class actually studies, then those students who take their classes seriously are more likely to do well.

[PGR88]

I agree with Murray, and after having been in “the real world” for 20 years now, I could devise a course of work and study over 4 years that would give a student more experience, more independence, more responsibility, cost less, leave them debt free upon graduation, and provide a greater interest in knowledge than most universities, certainly those offering the “Liberal Arts.”

[ComradeBork]

Just (and I mean just) got home from dropping our daughter off at college (VT Corps of Cadets, and we are so proud of her).

I think anyone who thinks that college is a place for maturation is fooling themselves. Maturation takes place in the home. I’m not saying that college freshmen are going to be fully finished adults, but the basic toolset is either there or it isn’t; and if not there is no college that is going to create it (it will probably happen, but it will be the knocks of life that does it, not college).

I’ve watched a lot of parents drop their kids off at various extracurricular activities (scouts, sea cadets, etc.) expressing the hope that this activity would teach their kid discipline. If discipline isn’t taught at home, then there is no hope till the kid gets run through the wringer outside the home.

Just my two cents...

[Red Boots]

I’m sort of ashamed to admit it, but I don’t understand how ROTC works. How does one join ? Would you care to enlighten me ?

[Night Hides Not]

I doubt they have ROTC at CU in Boulder. Or are you pulling my leg?

[ComradeBork]

Unfortunately my daughter could give you a better answer. Start working the problem in your junior year of high school. Contact the recruiter of the branch of service of your choice and ask who the ROTC coordinator for your area is and how to get in touch.

You'll need good grades, extracurriculars, health, be fit, and have to write a couple of essays. There'll be at least one interview.

Good luck...

[uncbob]

In communist countries students goto government funded schools to be brainwashed in Marxism

In the USA both parents work —and students go into debt with loans so they can go to college and be brainwashed in Marxism but along the way attend many drunken orgies and get to cheer the football and basketball teams ( while painted in the school colors )

[never4get]

There have always been college students who are not serious about their studies. I wonder if there is evidence that the proportion of such students at 4-year residential colleges has increased.

..Of course there is not. This article is plain stupid. That being said, I have to agree one would mature faster if you have to get a job to earn a living, or join the military, you have no choice. But, I suppose being abandoned by your parents at age 16 or having a baby at age 16 would make you grow up faster too. Different circumstances cause different reactions in maturity.

[GadareneDemoniac]

Every time I see a slouching 19 year-old, I think that conscription wouldn’t be all bad. These kids have lousy posture - you want to tell them, “Stand up like you’re proud of who you are!”

This, and floppy shirttails, are two of my pet peeves.