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Douglas Kmiec Defends Barack Obama's Vote Against Abortion-Infanticide Bill
Life News ^ | 9/17/08 | Steven Ertelt

Posted on 09/17/2008 4:08:31 PM PDT by wagglebee

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- Catholic attorney Douglas Kmiec, who claims to be pro-life, is continuing his defense of presidential candidate Barack Obama's pro-abortion position. In a new piece, Kmiec says he would have voted for a bill to protect newborns who survive botched abortions, but he can understand why Obama didn't.

The debate comes on the heels of a new television ad running in battleground states that features a woman who survived a late-term abortion criticizing Obama for opposing the bill for medical care for infants who survive like her.

In the article, Kmiec says he would have voted for the Illinois bill to protect born-alive infants had he been in the legislature, but he does not fault Obama for voting against it.

Kmiec's root defense of Obama is that the bill would have required doctors to take heroic measures to save pre-viable infants who had been delivered.

"Medical ethics does not require so called 'heroic' care at either end of life, and neither does Catholic teaching," Kmiec writes.

Since most of the babies protected under the law would be before viability in age, Kmiec agrees with Obama that the bill would be "very likely unconstitutional in most of its applications."

Ramesh Ponnuru, a writer with National Review Online, says, "None of this is true."

"First of all, it bears repeating that the Illinois bill was always very similar to the federal born-alive statute and, when Obama killed it in committee, nearly identical to it," he explains. "That law has never been held unconstitutional. I am not aware of any pro-abortion groups that have even tried to advance the claim."

He also says the bill does not work the way Kmiec describes.

"The House Judiciary Committee's report on the federal bill took some pains to address this very point," he says. "Medical care could be refused to a pre-viable infant, as it could be to a viable infant or, indeed, to anyone at all, if in the judgment of a doctor that care would not achieve anything. It could simply not be withheld from the pre-viable infant on the ground that this being is not a person recognized by the law."

Kmiec argues, further, that it is somehow novel for the law to define live birth in a way that includes pre-viable infants.

"Not true," Ponnuru writes. "Many states define born-alive infants in the same way and provides the same protections to them."

"Kmiec, in the linked piece, repeatedly accuses Obama's critics of dishonesty and bad faith," Ponnuru concludes. "I will not respond in kind. I will say only that Kmiec gets nearly everything wrong, and in a way that makes Obama (and himself) look better."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: catholicvote; douglaskmiec; kmiec; moralabsolutes; obamatruthfile; proaborts; prolife
"Medical ethics does not require so called 'heroic' care at either end of life, and neither does Catholic teaching," Kmiec writes.

B.S.! Obama just wants to kill as many babies as possible.

1 posted on 09/17/2008 4:08:32 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 09/17/2008 4:08:55 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 09/17/2008 4:09:13 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Hey ertelt... try explaining it this way to JESUS when you finally meet HIM.

LLS

4 posted on 09/17/2008 4:10:50 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (GOD, Country, Family... except when it comes to dims!)
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To: wagglebee

It is clear that someone is padding a large bank account for the demon-worshiping Kmiec.


5 posted on 09/17/2008 4:10:54 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: wagglebee

“B.S.! Obama just wants to kill as many babies as possible. “

Especially those that are not physically perfect.


6 posted on 09/17/2008 4:12:04 PM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: wagglebee
The devil luvs nuance!
7 posted on 09/17/2008 4:13:24 PM PDT by frogjerk (MSM: We will not question Obama bin Biden...)
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To: LibLieSlayer; SErtelt
Hey ertelt... try explaining it this way to JESUS when you finally meet HIM.

What is it that Steven Ertelt did that offended you?

8 posted on 09/17/2008 4:14:19 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
So in his mind, a heroic care action is the new term for feeding and watching after a newborn?

In my mind, there is no such thing as a Catholic (or otherwise) attorney. Connecting the two is like the 'bridge to nowhere'

9 posted on 09/17/2008 4:16:58 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: wagglebee

“Medical ethics does not require so called ‘heroic’ care at either end of life, and neither does Catholic teaching,” Kmiec writes.

Since most of the babies protected under the law would be before viability in age, Kmiec agrees with Obama that the bill would be “very likely unconstitutional in most of its applications.”

Wrong, Mr. Kmeic. The law was designed to protect babies BORN ALIVE that SURVIVED an attempted murder. Sheesh.

Where did you go to law school?


10 posted on 09/17/2008 4:19:16 PM PDT by reagandemocrat
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To: wagglebee
This guy is a dork. There is nothing "heroic" about putting a baby in an incubator, feeding it and keeping it warm. Geesh!

Babies who are have not achieved viability in age ARE BORN EVERY DAMN DAY!!! No one lets them die.

Obammie and his pals are depriving these babies of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." These babies are being murdered. I don't care what any so-called Catholic "lawyer" says.

11 posted on 09/17/2008 4:20:22 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer ("Troopergate" - The Revenge of the Alaskan Good Old Boys Club.)
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To: Gaffer

How about John Roberts, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito??


12 posted on 09/17/2008 4:21:01 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: driftdiver

Kmiec, the pious fraud, demonstrates he is not a practicing Catholic.

Thou shall not Kill -applies to all of us, including Chicago thugs and politicians.


13 posted on 09/17/2008 4:22:11 PM PDT by Gemsbok (CIC means Commmander-in-Chief,....NOT CommunityOrganizer-in-Chief or Comrad-in-Chief)
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To: wagglebee

As someone who is pro-life I would really like to hear more about what young girls can do if they choose to have there unwanted babies..Like the *Joy of Adoption* and how they can give there baby to a couple that would bring them so much Joy..Maybe then we could eliminate so many of these type of stories in addition to aborted babies
The Newest One:
Police said a school administrator discovered the baby boy screaming inside the garbage can Tuesday afternoon with his umbilical cord still attached.

The baby seemed to be in excellent condition. He also appeared to have been carried to full term, said Capt. Victor Rangel, a Phoenix Fire Department spokesman.

Emergency crews took the newborn to St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center. The baby has since been placed in custody with state Child Protective Services, said Sgt. Andy Hill, a Phoenix police spokesman.

Phoenix police said the 14-year-old mother gave birth to the child inside the administration building at Osborn Middle School.


14 posted on 09/17/2008 4:22:14 PM PDT by TaraP (A Big Black Horse and a Cherry Tree)
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To: reagandemocrat

More importantly, both Kmeic and Obama are wrong since the law was constitutional in EVERY application; that is, every baby that survives an abortion is entitled to not be murdered.

RD


15 posted on 09/17/2008 4:26:17 PM PDT by reagandemocrat
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To: Ann Archy

I don’t consider them “lawyers” in the sense that I was describing my feelings about “lawyers”. There wasn’t any umbrage intended against religion - only for a profession which has largely become the equivalent of cut-throat ‘me-ism’ and how much can I screw out of someone using the law as the game rules. Case in point- Baby Daddy John Edwards, you have to admit there are more lawyers like him than the Justices you cite.


16 posted on 09/17/2008 4:26:31 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: wagglebee
"Medical ethics does not require so called 'heroic' care at either end of life, and neither does Catholic teaching," Kmiec writes.

It's the BEGINNING of life, Kmeic, the beginning.

17 posted on 09/17/2008 4:26:32 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (don't worry, they only want to take water out of the other guy's side of the bucket.)
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To: wagglebee

Fake Christian BS


18 posted on 09/17/2008 4:27:50 PM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: wagglebee

So he is acknowledging that Obama did vote against the Born Alive bill.

Don’t anyone tell Alan Colmes who has been denying it every day, including to Jenna’s face the other night.


19 posted on 09/17/2008 4:30:53 PM PDT by Carley (she's all out of caribou.............)
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To: wagglebee

Kmiec should be publically excommunicated and banned from teaching at any Catholic institution until he repents.


20 posted on 09/17/2008 4:34:16 PM PDT by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgment has come.)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Spot on!

Kmeic needs a visit from Archbishop Chaput and to make a good confession....


21 posted on 09/17/2008 4:36:43 PM PDT by reagandemocrat
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To: Gaffer

They WERE lawyers.


22 posted on 09/17/2008 4:37:51 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: wagglebee

I wish these people would just be honest about Obama: he’s a guy without moral benchmarks, just living on ideologies. Grew up a muslim nursed on anti-American marxism, then turned to black liberation theology because it took place in a church. He’s a-religious and a-moral.


23 posted on 09/17/2008 4:38:02 PM PDT by gotribe (The right pick!)
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To: reagandemocrat

One would think that killing a baby outside of the womb under any conditions would be considered murder ? This is what was happening in this case.This is a totally sad commentary on how low we humans have sunk.Animal rights activists were all upset about the baby seal kill in Canada. Where are they when
it comes to human children ?


24 posted on 09/17/2008 4:41:54 PM PDT by dbrew2u
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To: wagglebee
Kmiec cannot simply admit that he's wrong and made a terrible choice in endorsing Obama. Instead, we are treated to the grotesque spectacle of Kmiec producing increasingly risible rationalizations in defense of Obama's voting history of violence toward the unborn.

Kmiec's ego, wounded by the thunderous chorus of criticism he's rightly received from Catholics and the wider Pro-Life community, is in control and his once clear grasp of right and wrong is a muddy mess.

Kmiec is in a dark place and is in dire need of prayer.

25 posted on 09/17/2008 4:43:20 PM PDT by AHerald ("Be faithful to God ... do not bother about the ridicule of the foolish." - St. Pio of Pietrelcina)
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To: DarthVader
"Kmiec should be publically excommunicated..."

The Catholic Church can not afford to allow its leaders to keep defending such condemnable sin.

It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

26 posted on 09/17/2008 4:48:07 PM PDT by taraytarah (If your only strategy is attacking the life choices of 17-year-old females, you got nothin'.)
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To: Gaffer

No CATHOLIC Ambulance chasers.


27 posted on 09/17/2008 4:49:53 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Ann Archy

You must be a lawyer......otherwise, you’d see the object of the joke as most do. Obviously, they were lawyers, not much chance of getting to where they are without being lawyers. Yet, the perception/near-fact/generalization is that most lawyers are not what you’d call truly desirable elements of society. You use them when you have to - like toilet paper. It doesn’t mean you have to stick up for them or their ‘integrity’.


28 posted on 09/17/2008 4:50:10 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Ann Archy

C’mon, what’s that supposed to mean? No CATHOLIC ambulance chasers? As to professions and relation to religion and transgressions, I could name a couple of big ones but I won’t. I’m not here to insult Catholicism. I was merely pointing out that the fact that a scumbag lawyer that has a religious connection associated with Catholicism doesn’t mean a thing. He is a scumbag to start with. Gussying it up with religion doesn’t make him pure.


29 posted on 09/17/2008 4:54:25 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: wagglebee

By making statements like this, Doug Kmieck is complicit with abortion.

He should be warned by his bishop and denied communion until he publicly repents.


30 posted on 09/17/2008 5:12:47 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: MHGinTN; Coleus; nickcarraway; narses; Mr. Silverback; Canticle_of_Deborah; ...
Douglas Kmiec is a terribly sad story. His is a bleak lesson in how far we are capable of falling. We should pray that God returns him to his right mind.

This man was among the best at dissecting and outlining, then explaining how utterly evil Roe v Wade was. Not just the untold acts of murder Roe has caused, but what it has wrought on the culture at large.

The contrast between Kmiec now and Kmiec before Congress in 1996 is beyond amazing.

An excerpt w link:

“…I briefly outline how abortion injures our law and culture well beyond the killing of unborn or partially-born children, including the denigration of women, the weakening of the family, the disfiguring of constitutional free speech and federalism, and fundamentally, the separation of law from the foundational first principles of our Nation.”
http://judiciary.house.gov/legacy/2187.htm

Pro-Life PING

Please FreepMail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

31 posted on 09/17/2008 8:51:27 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at CpForLife.org)
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To: wagglebee

This is not the justification that Obama gave at the time and since. He actually said that the mother shouldn’t be put through more grief after her decision to kill her child.


32 posted on 09/17/2008 8:58:45 PM PDT by hocndoc (http://www.LifeEthics.org (I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.))
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To: wagglebee
Medical ethics does not require so called 'heroic' care at either end of life, and neither does Catholic teaching," Kmiec writes

Forked tongue. Even the devil can quote Scripture. Kmiec has no authority to preach Catholic teaching.

33 posted on 09/17/2008 8:59:08 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (Repentance is a contract with God for a second life - St. John Climacus)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

Agree. This man is a heretic who is on the verge of being excommunicated.

I heard he was denied communion recently.


34 posted on 09/17/2008 9:01:49 PM PDT by diamond6 (Is SIDS preventable? www.stopsidsnow.com)
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To: cpforlife.org
"Kmiec's root defense of Obama is that the bill would have required doctors to take heroic measures to save pre-viable infants who had been delivered. "Medical ethics does not require so called 'heroic' care at either end of life, and neither does Catholic teaching," Kmiec writes."


Hidden in these two lines of sophistry is the essence of the deception that is Barack/Barry/Obama/Soetoro.

In a recent interview, Obama said (paraphrasing) that '...you can't just make stuff up, words mean something...'

In a classic case of obfuscation, Obama and his proxy Kmiec use the word "heroic" as if to imply that a doctor could be put at personal physical risk in trying to save the life of a newborn.

To personalize this situation, not long ago a customer at my place of business began choking on a piece of chicken. Seeing that he could not speak or breathe, I moved behind him and administered the Heimlich Maneuver. The chicken popped out of his throat, and all was well.

As I pointed out to several co-workers who referred to the act as "heroism", I was never at risk - HE was. I only responded as I had been trained to do. A doctor who uses his training and expertise to save the life of an infant is not engaging in heroism, whether the effort takes seconds or hours. He is merely doing what his training and his oath have prepared him to do.

But then in Obama's sophisticated world (double entendre fully intentional) babies are "burdens" and missing a coffee break to save a life might be considered personally risky. To the soulless mind it's all perfectly logical.
35 posted on 09/17/2008 9:16:33 PM PDT by shibumi (...vampire outlaw of the milky way...)
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To: wagglebee
...the bill would have required doctors to take heroic measures to save pre-viable infants who had been delivered.

Liar.

36 posted on 09/18/2008 1:01:34 AM PDT by BlessedBeGod (John McCain and Sarah Palin: Reform, Prosperity, and Peace)
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To: wagglebee

Kmiec is a disgrace. And I’d be happy to say that to his face at a time and place of his choosing.


37 posted on 09/18/2008 1:11:34 AM PDT by jwalsh07 (MSM Lied, Journalism Died. RIP 2008)
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To: wagglebee

My apologies... I meant kmiec. Sorry WB.

LLS


38 posted on 09/18/2008 3:59:30 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (GOD, Country, Family... except when it comes to dims!)
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To: sitetest
It is clear that someone is padding a large bank account for the demon-worshiping Kmiec.

I bet it's not money.

But something bad has happened to brother Kmiec, that's for sure.

Pray for him, that he escapes the snares of the evil one.

39 posted on 09/18/2008 4:02:16 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When He rolls up His sleeves, He ain't just puttin' on the Ritz)
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To: wagglebee
Pinged from Terri Dailies

8mm


40 posted on 09/18/2008 4:13:35 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Jim Noble
Dear Jim Noble,

Nah. I think it's money. And fame. And approval. And a grab at power, even if it will be derivative. I think that the creature Kmiec has seen conservatives all around it get rich over the decades, and somehow, the creature Kmiec never got the pot of gold. Satan appears, says, all you need to do is serve me, worship me, and I'll give you everything you want. And the creature Kmiec goes over to the side of death and murder, child sacrifice on the altar of the Evil One and blood lust.


sitetest

41 posted on 09/18/2008 5:46:35 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: TaraP
As someone who is pro-life I would really like to hear more about what young girls can do if they choose to have there unwanted babies

Pick up any Sunday newspaper, in any town across the country, and check out the personal ad section sometime. There are always at least one, and often many more, ads from married couples seeking to adopt the babies of unwed girls.

They offer to pay all expenses, prove themselves good parents, and accept amazing risks, since the girls can back out, with out consequences, at any time. The ads are heartbreaking.

There is no shortage of couples who are willing to do this, in fact, most girls who decide to give their babies up for adoption choose from among many couples.

42 posted on 09/18/2008 8:24:18 AM PDT by Red Boots
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To: wagglebee
Kmiec argues, further, that it is somehow novel for the law to define live birth in a way that includes pre-viable infants.

This is really twisted. My son was born "pre-viable" (i.e., needed medical assistance). But he was born (c-section), so the "birth" part is satisfied. He was alive (and still is), so the "live" part is satisfied. How then is that not a live birth of a "pre-viable" infant?

Aside from that, you'd have a hard time convincing me that my child, "viable" or not, wasn't a fully formed person, an independent, living, unique human life. If anyone tries this "viability defines humanity" crap with me, I may just lay them out.

43 posted on 09/18/2008 8:34:53 AM PDT by chimera
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To: Red Boots

That’s great, but I think it needs to be talked about alot more to girls who do not want there babies, and maybe they will opt out of having abortions or giving birth and throwing the newborns in trash cans, toilets and other dispicable acts they do to there unwnated children.


44 posted on 09/18/2008 3:25:34 PM PDT by TaraP (A Big Black Horse and a Cherry Tree)
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To: TaraP
What makes you think it isn't already ?

There are laws in every state that allow mothers to hand over their newborns to any hospital, fire or police station without penalty after birth, no questons asked. There are adoption ageancies everywhere that counsel and care for young mothers who want to give their babies up for adoption. The phone books are full of them, they advertise on billborads and all over most college campuses, and in newspapers, TV and radio.

They would like to have that information given to young girls at planned parenthood clinics, but that has been banned by the pro-choice lobby. They would like to hand this information out to them as they enter the abortion clinic, and they often do.

It is a planned parenthood-spread myth that there is no other option than an abortion. There are tons of people ready and willing to help.

45 posted on 09/18/2008 4:00:11 PM PDT by Red Boots
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To: Red Boots

Not that I think all teenagers are a bit dippy but not enough know about these options or they wouldn’t be having babies in public bathrooms and tossing them in trash cans and commodes, you can read daily about young girls usually teens doing this..Maybe a public commercial would help maybe on TV, youtube and film documentary’s about adoption in public schools.


46 posted on 09/18/2008 4:08:31 PM PDT by TaraP (A Big Black Horse and a Cherry Tree)
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To: TaraP
Your underlying assumption is that girls are only doing it because they don't know about that option. I think that's belittling of the average teen's intelligence, and a parroting of planned parenthood propaganda.

I think they probably do know their options, but are not operating in a rational way, so I think more education is probably not going to be too effective.

Sometimes you just have to accept the fact the people are going to do stupid/awful/dumb/ horrible and otherwise illadvised things, and there's nothing you can do about it.

That's life.

47 posted on 09/18/2008 6:08:36 PM PDT by Red Boots
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To: wagglebee
Kmiec has excommunicated himself from the Catholic Church by supporting Obama. He can no longer receive Holy Communion.

Here is a list of the Bishops speaking out about Pelosi -- the list also applies to Biden and other lay people like Kmiec.

Updated: American Bishops who have spoken against Pelosi

Here is the complete list of American bishops who have responded to Nancy Pelosi's comments so far:
  1. Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver was the first American bishop to respond
  2. ... Bishop James Conley, his auxiliary, joined him
  3. Archbishop Donald Wuerl of Washington DC responded twice, first in a press release and second in a statement to The Hill. He has also appeared on Fox News, I am told.
  4. Cardinal Justin Regali of Philadelphia, chairman of the Committee on Pro-Life Activities, issued this statement through the USCCB website...
  5. ... Bishop William Lori of Bridgeport, chairman of the Committee on Doctrine, joined him
  6. Cardinal Edward Egan of New York publised a strongly worded statement of his own
  7. Bishop Samuel Aquila of Fargo issued a letter correcting Pelosi's claims
  8. Bishop David Zubik of Pittsburgh and...
  9. ... Bishop Michael Sheridan of Colorado Springs have chimed-in
  10. Archbishop Jose Gomez of San Antonio, CNA reports has added his voice ...
  11. ... Bishop Oscar Cantu, his auxiliary bishop, has joined him
  12. Bishop William Murphy of Rockville has published an extensive letter
  13. Bishop Edward Slattery of Tulsa has a detailed response
  14. Bishop Kevin Farrell of Dallas has joined the USCCB's efforts
  15. Bishop Gregory Aymond of Austin is on-board
  16. Cardinal Sean O'Malley of Boston mentions the USCCB on his blog
  17. Bishop Thomas Wenski of Orlando has written at length
  18. Archbishop John Nienstedt of Saint Paul/Minneapolis challenges Pelosi's statement
  19. Cardinal Francis George of Chicago, President of the US Bishops, has weighed-in
  20. Bishop Robert Vasa of Baker, OR publishes in the Catholic Sentinel
  21. Bishop Jerome Listecki of La Crosse, WI responds in a word document
  22. Bishop Richard Lennon of Cleveland, OH will comment in his September 5th column (PDF)
  23. Bishop Ralph Nickless of Sioux City, IA has one of the very best responses I've read
  24. Archbishop George Niederauer of San Francisco has invited Pelosi to a "conversation"
  25. Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of Brooklyn: "Judging the Candidates"

{Last updated on September 10th.}

Notes:

  • Previous #23 has been removed. Bishop Joseph Gossman of Raleigh, NC is actually the bishop emeritus, and the new bishop, Michael Burbidge has not, to my knowledge, made a personal statement.
  • Previous #16 has also been removed, it was an erroneous duplication of current #13.
  • #26 was added September 10th, although he published his column September 6th

48 posted on 09/18/2008 7:30:31 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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