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Rod Dreher: Ron Paul, if only we listened
The Dallas Morning News ^ | 2008-11-25 | Rod Dreher

Posted on 11/30/2008 11:16:35 AM PST by rabscuttle385

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To: djsherin

That was why Hamilton’s conception of a National Bank was to be privately owned and run.

However, a form of fractional reserve banking has been in existence since the first banks were formed.


101 posted on 11/30/2008 3:02:13 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: arrogantsob
Ron Paul is just another clueless surrender monkey indistinguishable as regards national security from the Party of Treason.

Lmao, you people haven't got the slightest clue. How about use your Internent connection for something productive and do some actual research.
102 posted on 11/30/2008 3:08:20 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: PerConPat

Our Founders tried to avoid allowing too much democratic influence within the federal government in order to limit the impact of demogogues vying for the people’s vote with promises of milk and honey. Those protections have been systemically eroded.

We were to have only the House as the reflector of democratic sentiment through the popular vote. Now the Senate is elected that way as well.

Now what is possible is to clamp down on the money supply so tightly that there is little or no credit available. This, howeve, stifles economic growth and results in lower incomes all around not to mention political uproar and conflict.

I think we know that man being a fallen creature is incapable of forming on his own an honest society.


103 posted on 11/30/2008 3:08:52 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: arrogantsob
Wars are sometimes necessary and Ron Paul’s conception of foreign policy is ludicrous and indistinguishable from that of your typical RAT.

Ron Paul understands that wars are sometimes necessary, he voted in favor of Afghanistan.

His main question in Congress is to wonder what's wrong with a Constitutional declaration of war, and why is the rest of Congress so afraid of making one?

104 posted on 11/30/2008 3:10:36 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel
If these posters are so gung-ho about going to war then they should be posting from in-theater shouldn't they?

It's easy to talk the talk when someone else's ass is on the line.
105 posted on 11/30/2008 3:20:41 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: rabscuttle385
nor did I write him in on Election Day (I penciled in farmer-poet Wendell Berry).

Well, fat lot of good that did...for Barabbas.

106 posted on 11/30/2008 3:22:32 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (The mob got President Barabbas; America got shafted)
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To: divine_moment_of_facts
Ron Paul doesn't seem quite so loony anymore..

He started taking his meds agian?

Or is he just keeping his mouth shut?

107 posted on 11/30/2008 3:23:54 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (The mob got President Barabbas; America got shafted)
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To: rabscuttle385; joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; ...
Sorry rabs, to be a little late to the party!
108 posted on 11/30/2008 3:26:41 PM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: arrogantsob

Anybody that knows anything is clueless about some things. PhD’s are clueless about some things. That does not disqualify the person from commenting........


109 posted on 11/30/2008 3:32:54 PM PST by Liz (The right to be left alone is the beginning of freedom. USSC Justice William O. Douglas)
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To: Bokababe
Sorry rabs, to be a little late to the party!

It's all good.

Frankly, I'm disturbed to learn (only today) that McCain was a tool of the KLA (and by extension, al-Qaeda).

110 posted on 11/30/2008 3:37:48 PM PST by rabscuttle385 ("If this be treason, then make the most of it!" —Patrick Henry)
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To: arrogantsob

RR said it himself. Believe it or don’t. Meanwhile, the facts are against you.


111 posted on 11/30/2008 3:40:17 PM PST by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: rabscuttle385

Whatever happened to all that money he took in?


112 posted on 11/30/2008 3:42:07 PM PST by happinesswithoutpeace (You are receiving this broadcast as a dream)
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To: rabscuttle385; CyberAnt; Gary Johnson in 2012; Drango; Species8472
Ron Paul was right in opposing the 1999 NATO Bombing of Yugoslavia, and that was "a foreign policy decision". He was one of the few to be so vocal and active in opposing it.

Ron Paul was right about the economy and predicted the economic crisis.

Ron Paul is right about the corruption & cronyism in DC.

But some people here want Bush III, or McCain II.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Yet you can never successfully argue with lunatics.

113 posted on 11/30/2008 3:48:30 PM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: divine_moment_of_facts
Ron Paul doesn't seem quite so loony anymore

No he doesn't. Of course, I never thought he did.

114 posted on 11/30/2008 3:49:10 PM PST by dragnet2
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To: arrogantsob
Thanks for your thoughtful and well-reasoned responses. My own thoughts on the matter are based on a belief that successful societies are dynamic and that their predominant attitudes are shaped by their experiences, in the aggregate. Your comments concerning the effect of the erosion of the founders' original intent are well taken.

IMHO, we descended to a point where the "milk and honey" you mention became available by merely printing money and recklessly lending it out at very low rates. Result- bubble. Now, we will see how long the leadership can keep this going. More importantly, I am now wondering whether the majority can learn from the pain that must follow this dishonesty and look for honest, non-collectivist solutions.
115 posted on 11/30/2008 3:50:22 PM PST by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: rabscuttle385; CJ Wolf

ping


116 posted on 11/30/2008 3:56:57 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: rabscuttle385
"Frankly, I'm disturbed to learn (only today) that McCain was a tool of the KLA (and by extension, al-Qaeda)."

Oh yeah. McCain made his name nationally known by championing the Kosovo Albanians in the 1999 NATO Bombing of Yugoslavia -- and McCain wanted to go even further and invade the rest of Serbia with ground troops, but couldn't get the support for that in Congress.

Seventy-eight days of NATO Bombing of innocent Serb civilians was enough for McCain, he wanted more Christian blood (including ours) on behalf of Muslims. After all, that's what al Qaeda & the Albanian Mafia was paying him for -- to protect their drug, sex trade, terrorist and weapons trafficking routes

117 posted on 11/30/2008 4:00:37 PM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: randomhero97
If these posters are so gung-ho about going to war then they should be posting from in-theater shouldn't they?

It's easy to talk the talk when someone else's ass is on the line.

I'd bet a cup of coffee, half these "gung ho" types never served a day in their life. Most of the vets I know are the last to start calling for war, and many combat vets just avoid the subject.

118 posted on 11/30/2008 4:01:03 PM PST by dragnet2
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To: MaggieCarta; indylindy; roamer_1; calcowgirl; djsherin; Sunnyflorida; SoConPubbie; Sybeck1; ...

Too bad that DeMint forgot to mention McCain's implicit support of Osama bin Laden via his overt support for one of al-Qaeda's affiliates, the Kosovo Liberation Army.

FYI

The Juan McCain Truth File.

"I have great respect for Al Gore."
—John McCain, October 2, 2008

FR Keywords: mccaintruthfile, mcqueeg, mcbama

Please tag all relevant threads with the aforementioned keywords.

This can be a very high-volume ping list at times.

To join the ping list:
FReepmail rabscuttle385 with the subject line add  mccaintruthfile.
(Stop getting pings by sending the subject line drop mccaintruthfile.)


Republican Commissar’s Warning: By joining this ping list, you may be subjected to the delusional rants and ramblings of McCainiacs, of "moderate" Republicans, of pragmatic conservatives resigned to voting for the lesser of two Democrats, and of countless GOP shills who simply want to meet a new overlord.

119 posted on 11/30/2008 4:05:20 PM PST by rabscuttle385 ("If this be treason, then make the most of it!" —Patrick Henry)
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To: dragnet2
I'd bet a cup of coffee, half these "gung ho" types never served a day in their life. Most of the vets I know are the last to start calling for war, and many combat vets just avoid the subject.

Worth repeating. You have just said precisely what I have observed. All the gung-ho types are rarely ever Vets. Most Vets are much more reserved about going to war, because they know the real cost.

120 posted on 11/30/2008 4:05:43 PM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: PerConPat

There are 2 kinds of credit: credit based on actual saved funds and credit created (legally) by the banking system quite literally from nothing. The latter distorts interest rates and is inherently inflationary. Banks only have to legally have 10% reserves backing their deposits which means if all their customers came in at once, they couldn’t pay. Government likes the idea of easy money because it’s alternative to taxes so the concept is legal.

Of course there’s the FDIC but that encourages banks to stay fully loaned up because it removes the fear of a bank run which will naturally keep a bank at least slightly less inflationary.

Although there’s no way the FDIC could stop a nation wide bank run. The fed would have to print the money. If we were an honest society, fractional reserve banking would never have been an issue because it would have been outlawed.


121 posted on 11/30/2008 4:16:00 PM PST by djsherin (The federal government:: Because someone has to f*** things up!)
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To: rabscuttle385
DioGuardi talking to our newspaper:

“First, let me say how proud I am that so many Albanians came to support John McCain. And why is this important? Since 1998 when we had the problems with Milosevic, McCain has supported everything that we have asked him to do for the Albanian people, including to arm the KLA.


122 posted on 11/30/2008 4:16:42 PM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: PerConPat

The current crisis is due to the government forcing down interest rates for so long continually trying to avoid recession. We should have had a deep recession after the tech bubble, but instead we decided to spend spend spend and blow our money on consumer goods and with legislation like the CRA, we developed the much worse housing bubble. The government is still trying to get us to spend, but what we need to do is save, and make no mistake it will be painful, but this consumption based economy can’t last forever and the longer we put it off, the worse and longer the eventual recession/depression is going to be.


123 posted on 11/30/2008 4:20:37 PM PST by djsherin (The federal government:: Because someone has to f*** things up!)
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To: arrogantsob

A privately owned central bank is no better. It takes away all the checks and balances in free banking that keeps banks (even with fractional reserve banking) from over inflating (or inflating at all). Fractional Reserve Banking has been around since the moment bankers realized people didn’t come in to collect their gold: they issued fraudulent receipts for gold they didn’t have. The problem is government allowed this practice to continue and actively encouraged it.


124 posted on 11/30/2008 4:24:19 PM PST by djsherin (The federal government:: Because someone has to f*** things up!)
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To: Bokababe

Yup.


125 posted on 11/30/2008 4:27:21 PM PST by dragnet2
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To: PerConPat

The country has been under attack from the beginning. The Constitution was specifically written to RESTRAIN the federal government, essentially allowing it to maintain an Army/Navy, courts, post roads, and very little else. It was implied (and later outright stated as per the 10th Amendment) that the federal government would only have the powers EXPRESSLY granted to it and that all others were reserved to the states or the people.

Pretty much everyone in the federalist camp (who were a very broad group) made these arguments for ratification and even stated that a Bill of Rights was unnecessary because the federal government was not specifically granted the power to take any of the rights mentioned in the Bill of Rights! This was the key to many that were on the fence. The federal government was LIMITED and had only expressed powers.

Yet you had many of the same people arguing after the Constitution was ratified that the government had implied powers such as the ability to create a central bank. The more power the federal government gave itself, the less important states and localities became and the greater the government ignored or brushed aside the original intention of the Constitution.


126 posted on 11/30/2008 4:38:16 PM PST by djsherin (The federal government:: Because someone has to f*** things up!)
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To: dragnet2
Which is probably why Ron Paul got the highest amount of donations from active military.
127 posted on 11/30/2008 4:41:24 PM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: djsherin
...what we need to do is save, and make no mistake it will be painful, but this consumption based economy can’t last forever and the longer we put it off, the worse and longer the eventual recession/depression is going to be.

Yes...The current fiscal approach is based on the populace being convinced that the freshly printed money now being tossed into the maw- bailouts etc..- is worth something. When they are no longer convinced and hyperinflation stalks the land, we will be treated to those double digit interest rates of yesteryear that helped make Carter a dirty word in knowledgeable circles..

If there is to be any chance of a reasonable recovery, it will be founded on tax cuts and drastic reductions of useless government spending. This will take time. Alas, it seems that without Carters there can be no Reagans.
128 posted on 11/30/2008 4:42:11 PM PST by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: Bokababe; dragnet2

B-b-b-but he’s a kook! /s

I’m going to be an officer in a few years and the last thing I want to do is be involved in some random war (especially if it’s a “police action”) in some random country.

I also don’t want to have to lead people that don’t want to be there i.e. draftees and I’m worried with Obama’s National Service crap, but that’s another issue.


129 posted on 11/30/2008 4:46:26 PM PST by djsherin (The federal government:: Because someone has to f*** things up!)
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To: I see my hands

“Friends of Truthers are enemies of the US.”

So are liars.


130 posted on 11/30/2008 5:37:36 PM PST by Harrius Magnus (LIBERALS: We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.)
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To: mysterio

I did not see it that way, and I was “rooting” for Paul too.


131 posted on 11/30/2008 5:56:20 PM PST by Theodore R. (The most frightening words in the English language: The American people!)
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To: Species8472

You got that right!

As a libertarian-leaning conservative, I voted Republican quite often and contributed to both individual candidates and the RP before 2008. Though it is possible (though unlikely) that I may vote for a particular RP candidate again, I have resigned from the RP and will certainly never give the RP a nickel again.

RP loyalists can continue to advocate nation-building wars, national greatness conservatism, deficits, bailouts, pork-barrel spending, expanded entitlements, faith-based initiatives and utter incompetence. They can keep on touting how steadfast George Bush has been, and how brilliantly Karl Rove has advanced the conservative agenda. Just be prepared for the destruction of the Republic under a permanent Democratic Party majority.


132 posted on 11/30/2008 6:09:53 PM PST by RBroadfoot
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To: mysterio

Right.

Truthtellers are never popular. Those who lead on principle are never popular.

RP was far more conservative and pro-American than any of the other Republican candidates in 2008. I don’t consider it “conservative” to advocate a global war of liberation when the Republic is financed by massive foreign debt. And I don’t believe that Iraq was involved in 9/11 - or at least, I haven’t seen or read any credible proof.

Many of my Republican friends are starting to come around, but it is too late now to avoid the impending socialism.

BTW, I don’t personally know anyone - R or D, antiwar or pro-war - who doesn’t support the safety of our troops.


133 posted on 11/30/2008 7:20:13 PM PST by SecAmndmt (Arm yourselves!)
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To: rabscuttle385

“The most dangerous foreign (or economic) policy is that of doing something for the sake of doing something.”

And the idea that our military is useless unless we use it is ridiculous. Our national military resources should be used sparingly, lawfully and wisely, in the same way that our personal security resources should be used sparingly, lawfully and wisely.


134 posted on 11/30/2008 7:23:25 PM PST by SecAmndmt (Arm yourselves!)
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To: arrogantsob

“Credit is an inseperable element of Capitalism.”

Do you mean “debt”?

America is no longer a creditor nation. We haven’t been for almost 30 years, I believe.

SAVINGS and INVESTMENT are inseparable elements of a free market economy. Debt is for socialists, commies and their fellow travelers at the Fed and Wall Street.


135 posted on 11/30/2008 7:30:40 PM PST by SecAmndmt (Arm yourselves!)
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To: SecAmndmt

It’s the same concept behind owning a gun. You don’t expect to use it everyday and you certainly don’t go looking for an excuse to, but you must know how to operate it and fire it accurately. Only a few hundred criminals are killed by people defending themselves with guns, but there are hundreds of thousands of incidents where a gun is shown and the criminal runs.


136 posted on 11/30/2008 7:41:10 PM PST by djsherin (The federal government:: Because someone has to f*** things up!)
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To: Perdogg
The problem with Ron Paul was his foreign policy.

Paul is wrong on Iraq and the threat of Islamofascism. But on the rest of foreign policy he's correct. If we had a traditional foreign policy of securing our borders and wiping out any country that attacks us, the world would be a lot safer.

137 posted on 11/30/2008 7:58:40 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: I see my hands
Friends of Truthers are enemies of the US.

Paul has never been a Truther nor has he identified with them.

138 posted on 11/30/2008 8:00:30 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: RKV

No! I just prefer conservatism - and not liberal light!


139 posted on 11/30/2008 8:01:04 PM PST by CyberAnt (Michael Yon: "The U.S. military is the most respected institution in Iraq.")
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To: CyberAnt
but Ron Paul IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE - HE’S A LIBERTARIAN

Paul has been married for over 50 years to the same woman, is strongly pro-life, and is a devout Christian.

How does that not make him a conservative?

140 posted on 11/30/2008 8:02:42 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: Species8472
So what did the Republican Party do with Ron Paul and his followers? They kicked him (and them) out of the tent, and branded him with a "nutjob" label).

RON PAUL SUPPORTERS KICKED OUT OF GOP MEETING

141 posted on 11/30/2008 8:09:27 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Yeah, I'm not very informed when it comes to current events. Plus I just make stuff up.

Funny though, because it never occurred to me to spread such lies about Palin or W or even you or me. Wonder why that is? My depravity must be absolutely incoherent.


142 posted on 11/30/2008 8:25:20 PM PST by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: CyberAnt

And I prefer classical liberalism to conservatism, myself. What’s the difference? Paleoconservatism has way too much populism for me. For instance, I don’t think we should legislate religious values. What do I mean my that? Simple, if it doesn’t affect your life, rights or property, you ought to have a limited interest in it. Yeah, there are some basic societal issues (for instance gay marriage [yech] we have to agree on. BUT, we need to avoid tyranny of all types - majoritarian, as well as tyranny of a minority. The way that works out in practice? Don’t like abortion? Don’t have one. Others may think differently. They are wrong by my lights, but they get to be wrong because they don’t affect my life, rights or property. YMMV.


143 posted on 11/30/2008 8:31:09 PM PST by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
I was snippy in my post #142 to you and I apologize. No excuse, I'm (as always) sober and (currently) stress free. Sometimes I'm just a bad guy and sometimes it shows.

You sure don't need any snippiness from the likes of me. It won't happen again.


144 posted on 11/30/2008 8:58:19 PM PST by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: Bokababe

You are absolutely correct. But you knew that, didn’t you? :^)


145 posted on 11/30/2008 9:07:49 PM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: I see my hands

You are undoubtedly correct. You ARE depraved... and not very clever at the stuff you make up. Practice more. Use Obambi as your subject.


146 posted on 11/30/2008 9:14:58 PM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: mvpel

Afganistan did not stand alone. When we drove the scum out they went to Iraq for medical treatment and revival. The Northern part of the nation had its very own al Queda offshoot. If Paul does not understand this simple fact he is indeed unjustifiably ignorant.

There is no Constitutional format for a declaration of war. Congressional legislation approved the war. This is a deceptive objection. And I have heard him express other reservations most based upon an isolationist view of the world. Not a realistic one.


147 posted on 11/30/2008 9:20:16 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: randomhero97

Some of us have listened to the man for years and know exactly where he stands on foreign policy. He stands with the RATs and adopts their Ostrich policy of sticking our heads in the sand.


148 posted on 11/30/2008 9:22:50 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: randomhero97

Gee another RAT talking point used to support Paul. Some of us would be happy to be on the front line but are past the expiration date. So we support our sons in the military rather than RAT line spouters.


149 posted on 11/30/2008 9:24:54 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: RKV

RR did not govern like a Libertarian either in California or in Washington so don’t pretend he did.


150 posted on 11/30/2008 9:26:04 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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