Why the stories about Obama's birth certificate will never die

Salon ^ | December 5, 2008 | Alex Koppelman

[Aliska]

Dec. 5, 2008 | Barack Obama can't be president: He wasn't really born in Hawaii, and the certification of live birth his campaign released is a forgery. He was born in Kenya. Or maybe Indonesia. Or, wait, maybe he was born in Hawaii -- but that doesn't matter, since he was also a British citizen at birth because of his father, and you can't be a "natural-born citizen" in that case. (But then, maybe his "father" wasn't really his father; maybe his real dad was an obscure communist poet. Or Malcolm X.)

[TChad]

This is a paper document which Obama has in his possession.

It shows the short form, when only the long form matters. It is a distracting side issue.

If the certification is legitimate, it does not prove that Obama was born in Hawaii. If it is a forgery, it does not prove that Obama was not born in Hawaii, or even that he forged the document.

We need documentation of the name of the doctor or midwife who delivered him, and the name of the hospital where he was born. That information is missing from the short form, but it should be present on the long form. Only the long form matters.

[Aliska]

Big IF supporting your benefit of the doubt, there.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I meant when he was a child and possibly up to and through his teen years. Family secrets. I had some, didn't find out until I was in my 30's. Many, many people do. There is much I can't say I know about my own complete history, my hospital birth cert w/footprints disappeared over the years, etc., I remember having it but it is gone, can't be replaced. He can't be held accountable for what he does not know or remember during his childhood unless he can track down records that may still exist somewhere. My father's military records were destroyed in a fire. I want to know where he was assigned and when. It would fill in some black holes there, but it's nothing I can't live with and no fault of my own. Still, I wouldn't personally hold back what I can get reissued and can prove should it be necessary for something.

If it's just something on there that may prove embarassing, I can sympathize with that, but not withholding what is vital to prove he is eligible.

I'm not going to go on and on bashing him, said what I had to say, you will see that I have grave doubts about much of it, character, credibility, leave it at that.

I can say with certainty that there is enough dirt on me out there, things people know, that I could never run for public office. I know what it feels like to have skeletons in my closet, but am open about them if it matters, not the kind to hide behind lies, but no reason I have to volunteer all of it with everybody I know.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that I were elected to some public office and concealed the skeletons in my closet in order to get elected, knowing if I divulged that information, I wouldn't stand a chance. If elected, then I am subject to blackmail bigtime over stupid stuff, not necessarily illegal.

I guess it's the irony that gets me the most. He had opponents thrown off ballots over technicalities. Now here we have a huge technicality, and he's not forthcoming about it.

BTW, I cannot find his parents on any census, doesn't mean they aren't on one somewhere. I did find his maternal grandfather's enlistment in WWII on 18 Jan 1942, Ft. Leavenworth. Read his mother was born there, so that checks out. Wonder if he knows that?

Everybody's talking about records that have been sealed. I've read it so much it almost becomes "truth", but can anybody prove from anything out there that those records were actually sealed?

[Windflier]

It shows the short form, when only the long form matters. It is a distracting side issue.

I agree that what we really need is to see the actual, original long form birth certificate. That is the only document which will definitively prove Mr. Obama's qualifications, or lack thereof.

Problem is - they don't seem to be forthcoming. Even after a solid month beyond the election, when this document, even if embarrassing, can do him no harm. Unless - it proves him to be unqualified.

In the meantime, both challenging him to allow his paper COLB to be independently examined for authenticity, AND applying to the Hawaiian state records administration for a public copy of his birth certificate "index" (or COLB), are valid paths of inquiry, and have equal potential to reveal some truth in this matter.

I think that you've discovered something remarkable, and that avenue of inquiry should be explored as soon as possible.

[Windflier]

Big post, Al, and I can’t respond to every point, but you did make some good ones, and I concur with most of them.

Let’s say that your hypothesis is true, and that the “embarrassing” details on Barry’s birth certificate are just that...embarrassing. Maybe even horribly embarrassing, like he’s a hermaphrodite or something.

Just the idea that there may be something “embarrassing” on his birth certificate is allowing him a lot of slack here. He’s made no such statement, and has not put forth any convincing argument against disclosing his records. When his new press secretary was asked about this issue at a press briefing, he simply closed the session without answering. He didn’t even attempt to spin it. He simply closed the session. Now, that’s mighty strange.

I’m sorry that he got himself in this pickle, but this issue of disclosure is not his to decide. It’s the American people’s. He’s supposedly a “constitutional scholar”, so should have known better than the average presidential candidate, what he was getting himself into, or even the potential for disclosure of something he’d prefer wasn’t.

This begs the logic that there’s nothing in his record that’s merely embarrassing. He would never have entered public service, if there were. Like you said, you’d never think of running for office, because you’ve got too many skeletons in your closet. I’m sure that Barry does too, but they’re probably nothing that would stymie his professional aspirations in the Democrat party (that’s a joke, y’all).

I’m sorry. He’s causing far too much damage to himself and the country over this, for there to be anything but a dis-qualifier on his birth certificate. He’s pushing our country close to having a perceived illegitimate government, all because he wants to maintain his privacy? I’m sorry. I’m not buying it. This is just too big for there to be nothing there.

[TChad]

Problem is - they don't seem to be forthcoming.

I just hope the courts can force the issue. Hawaiian officials have a duty to protect confidential information, but if Obama wants to be sworn in, he also has a duty: to authorize release of all documentation from whatever source about his birth.

I think that you've discovered something remarkable, and that avenue of inquiry should be explored as soon as possible.

I'm not sure what I discovered, if anything. This is not that complicated, however hard the MSM tries to misunderstand it.

[Wil H]

This article is riddled with the same inaccuracies seen all over the sloppy, ignorant, mainstream media.

However it includes a bombshell not seen anywhere else that needs to be challenged and either verified or debunked.

It says...

Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

“Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.”

Now, this ignoramus, Okubo, supposedly “authenticated” an emailed copy of the Daily KOS “COLB”. She is quoted as saying it “looks authentic” which is like authenticating a scanned image of a $100.00 bill and declaring it authentic”.

So her pronouncements on what her boss said are highly suspect, but they need to be challenged to determine their veracity.

[Windflier]

I'm not sure what I discovered, if anything.

Now, don't be humble.

You tracked down the state of Hawaii statutes regarding release of birth certificate information, and found the one clause that may open the door to obtaining the information that Obama refuses to release. I applaud you for taking the time to do that.

This is not that complicated, however hard the MSM tries to misunderstand it.

Good one!

[TChad]

The skeptics should try this:

Put yourself in Obama's mother's position in 1961. You are a legal resident of Hawaii, but your baby was delivered while you were visiting Kenya. After you returned to Hawaii, you checked and found that you could legally obtain a Hawaiian birth certificate for your son, or something that sounded like a Hawaiian birth certificate such as a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth or a Certification of Live Birth. Would you take the time to fill out the forms and pay the few dollars necessary for your son to obtain that documentation?

What mother wouldn't?

I don't know if it actually happened, but it is entirely plausible under Hawaiian law:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm

Had Obama's mother done what I describe above, Obama might now have a legitimate short form COLB that looks exactly like the one so widely posted on the Internet. Or maybe not, but it is worth checking, and so we need the long form.

[Windflier]

This idea was brought up early in the BC discussions. The fact was discovered that anyone could file a birth certificate in the state of Hawaii at the time of Obama’s birth, no matter where the birth actually occurred.

It’s very likely that Madelyn Dunham would have taken the lead on having her grandson’s birth certificate filed with the state of Hawaii. This filing in itself would not have guaranteed Obama citizenship. It’s likely that the family simply assumed he had US citizenship through his mother, Ann.

The state of Hawaii could then issue a COLB (if requested), which, like the COLBs we’ve seen, has only the most basic and pertinent information on it.

The information on those certificates also indicate the actual place of birth - nothing is changed. However, they are simply a document which indicates that the state of Hawaii has a valid birth certificate on file for that person, nothing more. It, in itself, does not indicate or prove US citizenship. It’s an informational document only. Even Sun Yat Sen had a Hawaiian COLB, though he was born in, and was a citizen of China.

A legitimate COLB for Obama from the state of Hawaii will show the same birthplace for him that is on his original long form birth certificate.

What’s at issue, is whether Obama, et al created a forged COLB out of necessity, because a legitimate copy from the state of Hawaii would have shown a disqualifying place of birth.

There’s little question now, except among the willfully ignorant, that the JPEG and photos of the Obama COLB shown on the internet are forgeries.

The Hawaiian officials have sworn that they have Obama’s original birth certificate on file and under seal. It’s apparent to me, that the reason Obama cannot allow his original birth certificate to be released, is because it will not only reveal that he’s ineligible to assume office, but will also show that the published copies of his COLB are fraudulent.

[TChad]

We'll see. I hope. Eventually.

Thanks for your comments.

Time for bed.

[FreedomPoster]

Just proving he’s a citizen doesn’t cut it. There is a difference between being a citizen, and being a natural born citizen. This is nontrivial.

The COLB doesn’t shed any light on this issue. The actual BC might.

[FreedomPoster]

Oh, and for the record, I don’t think this is going anywhere. But it sure is curious.

[FreedomPoster]

I think it is quite likely there is a substantial terminology problem there, and that what they are talking about is the COLB, and not the actual BC.

Again, this is nontrivial.

[FreedomPoster]

LOL! Nice find. Well-played.

[TheCipher]

I agree, they will stonewall at every chance they get. Under that statute, the attorneys involved in litigation can do basically the same thing right now :

§338-18 Disclosure of records.

(a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:

(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings;

Now they wouldn't get the actual birth certificate, but they could ask for verification of the data. If they ask the right questions, it is in effect the same thing. For example, Is his place of birth listed as Hawaii ? But even that may not show anything if that field would show Hawaii ( being it was the mothers residence ). There would be supporting documentation to that effect. They could ask: Is there an entry in field 23 ( Evidence for Delayed Filing ). Also an easy question is. Is the race under the Father "African". If they say no, then it proves the COLB is a forgery and he is guilty of wire fraud.

[TheCipher]

I'm not sure what I discovered, if anything.

I think he was confusing you with me

[AZ .44 MAG]

If you do make a template please ping me.

[nufsed]

It will be posted here. I’m waiting for the court cases to play out.

[Balding_Eagle]

A head of state who is seen as illegitimate by a large sector of his people doesn't stand much of a chance of effectively governing those people, and will likely endure attacks against his holding office, and even attempted coups.

Are you talking of George Bush, or BHO? Bush was very effective, certainly with the Iraq War, even though a huge number of voters thought he was illegitimate. Even the threaten impeachment proceedings never got out of the kook stage.

Far more voters thought Bush was illegitimate than will ever think the same of BHO

Obama has got to clear this legitimacy question up, to the full satisfaction of every American, if he hopes to have any success in his presidency, or to even legally retain the position.

He probably thinks he can retain the office, even illegitimately. Unfortunately, I think he's right.

[Windflier]

Are you talking of George Bush, or BHO?

Apples and oranges, BE. The Supreme Court ended the re-counting in Florida. George Bush won the Electoral College, while Gore won the popular vote. Bush won, end of story. That's the way our election system works, and if kook liberals want to say that Bush is/was illegitimate because of that, then they really are uneducated idiots.

Obama, on the other hand, was never properly vetted as to his basic constitutional qualifications to hold the office of President, and there is reason to question his eligibility.

Ok. Easy to fix. Show us your birth certificate, and we're done. Let's move along and get on with the business of transition to a new administration.

Well, hang on. He won't release his birth certificate. Huh? Why not? Well, he won't say. What the hell?

It's in the Constitution that he has to meet this requirement to assume the office. I'm sorry that no one thought to ask him to show proof of his eligibility when he filed to run for office, but that's no excuse for him to not provide it now.

It's too late. The cat's out of the bag already. His credentials will have to be checked, now that we're aware of what's happened.

Do you see how this is a different scenario than the 2000 election?

Illegitimacy in this case would be much worse in the minds of the people, and even in the minds of foreign governments, if Obama does not clear this up.

And, why aren't you asking the simplest questions, like: Why doesn't he just do this, with so much riding on it? Why spend upwards of a million dollars fighting the release of a $10 document?