TREASON!

Can you double space that?

First of all, a majority of military and criminal behavior scientists (even Republicans who yes, you’ll deem as just RINOs) all agree that torture has less benefits than benefits. Look at the 60 odd so released prisoners who are now full-blown alQueda. I think the thing to remember here is that we are based on a system of laws and our country’s liberty is based on preserving it. When we bend our own rules then the terrorists win. When we show the world how civilized societies act, they tend to come around over time. To call this treason is a bit of a stretch. I say what fear do we have by holding them in the USA and then trying them - if guilty then they’re either held in prison or executed. If not, then they’re released. Isn’t that what any of us would expect of ourselves whether here in the USA or elsewhere?

** HEY LIBS — YOU VOTED FOR HIM, NOW YOU LIVE WITH THE DANGER AND WEAKNESS OF OUR NATIONAL SECURITY **

Whatever methods that are most effective should definitely be used. Whether that includes “torture” or not is really questionable, certainly trickery, humiliation, isolation are all methods short of torture that could be effective.

I don’t find “torture” to be legally problematic- the constitutional prohibitions apply to criminal suspects not captured enemy combatants. The only question is whether or not its really effective or not.

I think there is a lot of benefit to interrogators for those who are being questioned to think they might be tortured- even if they aren’t. A lot of heroes aren’t as heroic as they might put on.

** HEY LIBS — YOU VOTED FOR HIM, NOW YOU LIVE WITH THE DANGER AND WEAKNESS OF OUR NATIONAL SECURITY **

Well the only problem with that is that OUR sons and daughters are endangered even more with cowards like this in office.

You bet.....

....when the bombings begin, my hope they occur in Washington DC, New York, Chicago....wherever its heavy Obama territory.

Elections have consequences....

...and the people who caused this mess should have to bear the brunt of the destruction and misery...

Here's some help. Good post.

Let me first bring to your attention that President Obama has revoked all Executive Orders pertaining to the detention and interrogation of enemy prisoners. This automatically creates a MASSIVE hole in interrogation and detention of enemy combatants, hence, giving AID and COMFORT to our enemy. How? By creating such a loophole in our interrogation, enemy combatants will NOT be interrogated properly, giving misinformation or no information at all, thus putting the lives of countless Americans, both civilian and military, unnecessarily in harms way.

May I add as a side note, “treated humanely”, “violence to life and person”, and all the quotes of letter “F” under section 2 entitled “Definitions” should not and do not apply to Terrorists because, under a law that has been approved in the correct manner prescribed by the U.S. Constitution (I forget what it is, but it is there) many, if not most of the Geneva Convention articles do not apply to terrorists. Also, these quotes are exactly the ills that the terrorists have committed against America and her Allies.

In Section 3, Obama states that no detainee shall be interrogated by any means that is inconsistent with the Army Field Manual, 2 22.3. On page 97 (Ch 5, HUMINT collection), Paragraph 5-75, it states that:
1. Sexual harassment is prohibited This is understandable
2. Placing hoods or sacks over the heads of detainees is prohibited.
What is wrong with placing hoods or sacks over their heads? That is not torture, and actually is used to keep the detainees from knowing their location, which influences how cooperative they are.
3. Causing Physical pain is prohibited Personally, I believe torture is any action that will cause an irreversible injury. Some Physical pain like a slap in the face or a broken nose is reparable. On the other hand, injury such as dismemberment of the body is understandably cruel. However, sometimes it may be necessary to cause irreversible bodily damage, especially when a high-value prisoner is very stubborn and unwilling, but the information must be procured.
4. Waterboarding - Water boarding is not irreversible bodily damage; it causes only psychological distress, which, I believe is NOT torture. May I remind everyone that waterboarding was used to collect intelligence that led to the foiling of many terrorist plots both inside America and in Iraq.

More prohibited interrogation methods include: Using military work dogs, Inducing any temperature injury, Mock executions, Depravation of food, water, or medical care. Some of these, such as the use of military dogs and mock executions are effective ways to scare the detainees into spilling the beans. Depravation of food, water, and medical care, and temperature injuries (heat exhaustion and hypothermia) may sometimes be necessary, however, these border on the cuff of torture, depending on the circumstances of the prisoner. My point in this is to show that these methods have proven successful.

These interrogation methods have allowed America to be safe from attack, and have allowed Iraq and Afghanistan to become somewhat stable societies. Because these methods have now been outlawed, America becomes much less safe, and unnecessarily puts our soldiers and civilians in harms way.

This executive order also says to the terrorists that America will go soft on them, therefore creating a probability of misinformation giving and/or retention of any intelligence whatsoever, hence, giving COMFORT to the enemy.

When we show the world how civilized societies act, they tend to come around over time. To call this treason is a bit of a stretch. I say what fear do we have by holding them in the USA and then trying them - if guilty then they’re either held in prison or executed. If not, then they’re released. Isn’t that what any of us would expect of ourselves whether here in the USA or elsewhere?

Gee, sorry to hear about the brain damage. Will you be OK, otherwise? ;-)

First of all, a majority of military and criminal behavior scientists (even Republicans who yes, you’ll deem as just RINOs) all agree that torture has less benefits than benefits.

I would consider no terrorist attacks on the U. S. since 9/11 a huge benefit.

IMHO our common criminals in prisons stateside are treated alot more imhumanely than these terrorists at Gitmo.

I apologize for the flippant "brain damage" post. I see you're from Illinois, which explains a lot.

The creatures we are fighting against don't believe in the Constitution, or anything like it. Therefore, since they deny the existence of the Natural Rights of Man, they don't get any. Sorry, that portion of the buffet is closed, Gitmo-guys.

Outside of the banana republic of Illinois, this is TREASON.

The Kenyan usurper is working to undercut the military, between this and the "gays in the military" thingee. Case closed.

It bothers me when I see posts like yours. I'm sure mine will bother you, but here goes anyway.

First of all, a majority of military and criminal behavior scientists (even Republicans who yes, you’ll deem as just RINOs) all agree that torture has less benefits than benefits. Okay, but by implication you are stating that for a fact, that which is taking place at Guantanamo is torture. And that is just absurd. Water bordering will leave no permanant mental or physical injurty. For that reason it simply does not reach the level of torture. I reaches the level of making someone uncomfortable. That is all.

Look at the 60 odd so released prisoners who are now full-blown alQueda. What has this to do with anything? You are a Conservative. If you were captured and had to go through what these men did, essentially very little except incarcertaion in a foreign environment, and made to be uncomfortable, would you quit being a Conservative? Of course you wouldn't.

I think the thing to remember here is that we are based on a system of laws and our country’s liberty is based on preserving it. Our country's liberty, in fact it's very existence, is very much dependent on being able to defend ourselves against terrorist activity.

When we bend our own rules then the terrorists win. We have bent no laws. We have not used torture. We are incarcerating unlawful combatants in the same manner we would incarcerate lawful combatants. The only exception is that we are using water boarding and other means of social discomfort, to cause these people to be forthcoming with what they know. That is the ONLY prudent thing to do with unlawful combatants whose tactics include targeting massive numbers of innocent humans. Those twin towers had over 50,000 people in them when they were attacked. The terrorists disgregard for the Geneva Convention concerning these tactics, is why we have to use every means humanely possible, to prevent more massive death. And if you can't understand this, then you really shouldn't be addressing the issue.

When we show the world how civilized societies act, they tend to come around over time. Please explain what connectiion to reality this statement has. Just what action do you deem to have caused the 09/11 attacks? What were we doing prior to 09/11 that wasn't what civilized societies do? Did the terrorists come around? Well, they actually did didn't they. And look what they did while they were around.

To call this treason is a bit of a stretch. In the end, the label of treason may wind up being fairly accurate. If one of these men is set free and kills again, particularly U.S. Troops or Citizens, one person will have to bear the responsibility for it. That is B. Hussein Obama.

I say what fear do we have by holding them in the USA and then trying them - if guilty then they’re either held in prison or executed. When we try people inside the United States, we have to grant to them Constitutional Protections. So, first of all we have to fear giving them rights that only citizens or at the very least, humane human beings should be afforded. Then there is the issue with having to make public our methods and contacts. Even if those are not revealed in open court, the attornies for these men will learn those methods and contacts, pass them on. If you doubt this, you are not aware of what the left in the United States is capable of, has done in the past, and will do again. When this happens, our troops, our friends, and our capabilities will be impacted negatively. So these are the things we deamn well better fear.

If not, then they’re released. If a person is taken off the battlefield in a hostile situation where they were armed and helping other terrorists, we can't read their mind. We can only confirm what they were doing. When it comes to a court of law with Constitutional Protections, what chance do we have of actually convicting these people? Many of them will be released because a different standard is required in a normal court of law. Combatants (legal and ilegal) are fair game when it comes to incarceration while hostilities exist. Legal combatants can be held until hostilities have ended. It's a loon's rant that states these terrorists must be tried and released. That is never the requirement even under the Geneva Conventions.

Isn’t that what any of us would expect of ourselves whether here in the USA or elsewhere? It is amazing to watch you post this premise. Ask yourself what treatment our people get when captured by the enemy. They are mutliated, drug through the streets, and if lucky exectued in a manner that provides a quick death. Then their bodies are cast aside as a warning to the U.S. and it's allies what fate they face if captured. Guns are pointed to our people's heads. The gun is dry fired over and over. These people die many times before they are actually killed. And then they are often beheaded or dismembered, body parts disbursed so that it is impossible to recover all the parts to be returned home.

This is what you ingored to post this tripe here. The idea that you could actually ask this question, leaves me astounded as to the lack of knowledge you have on this matter.

There is nothing wrong with what is taking place at Gitmo. And as for the panties on the heads of peple at Abu Grab, give me a fricken break.

Paragraphs are your friends.

Outstanding post, D1.

The difference between the knowledge shown in your post and the idiocy being shown by our leaders in DC on this issue is almost immeasurable.

None dare call it treason, but we will have to start doing so.

The radical anti-American agenda that Obama intends for the USA is now only beginning to be known.

Great post, thanks.

Hay Joe, take a look at this.

I appreciate the comments in your note of agreement. Thank you.

For the record, personally, I would use the word treason very carefully.

Over time, what Obama does will form a pattern. And when the effects of what he has done, become known, that can be grouped together to show cause and effect.

At that time, a very clear pattern of flagrantly ill thought out actions and what those actions have cost us will be crystal clear. And then it will be time for us to ask if those actions don’t reach the level of treason or at best an unacceptable level of self destruction.

It’s why we will probably win in 2012, if our fears are warranted.

If we toss the “T” word around too much now, it’s going to lessen it’s effect in 2012 when we need to ask if actions taken don’t verge on the brink of it, or even go over the line.

I hope you understand that you and I agree on matters, and this is only a matter of clarification. I am not convinced Treason is not a germane issue here at all.

Thanks Syncro.

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." (emphasis added)

The U.S. Army alone has nearly 500,000 troops. That doesn’t count reserves or National Guard. In 2007, the U.S. Defense budget was $439 billion. Is zer0 serious about creating some kind of domestic security force bigger and more expensive than that? For what? Why? He never explained the reason or it's purpose.“national security force,” = a large paramilitary force hand picked and loyal to him.