Posted on 02/04/2009 9:40:24 PM PST by rabscuttle385
WASHINGTON - Sen. Jim DeMint and Gov. Mark Sanford urged members of the Senate on Wednesday to reject President Barack Obama's economic-stimulus bill, as DeMint introduced a rival measure he said required only tax cuts.
Sanford, in Washington for a Republican Governors Association meeting, asked Republican senators at a Capitol Hill lunch convened by DeMint to follow the lead of House Republicans who voted against the $819 billion stimulus measure last week.
The bill passed the House by a 244-188 margin without a single Republican vote. It would bring South Carolina $3.2 billion, including a $905 million to eliminate a state budget deficit and $830 million to build and repair roads, bridges, schools, colleges, universities, water-treatment plants and other infrastructure.
Sanford and DeMint said they are joining forces in a bid to try to spark the kind of national outcry among conservatives that led to the defeat of a major Senate immigration-reform bill in 2007.
(Excerpt) Read more at beaufortgazette.com ...
Don't assume that just because most folks were taking losses, that everyone was taking losses last year. And, quite a few public companies are still issuing dividends.
In case you haven't noticed, McCain has been leading the charge to undercut DeMint and Sanford by offering up his own alternative bill, some sort of mutant hybrid containing questionable tax cuts and all sorts of pork.
Now, in the meantime...
McCain offered his lame alternative first.
And it was roundly ignored by everyone but the mentally impaired.
Yes, all of this is because as you say 'the handwriting is on the wall'. However, this bill would change what the handwriting says.
Go look at how long it took the stock market to recover from 1933 onward, or in the 1970’s - and now project that onto the current environment. There’s going to be no stimulative benefit from playing with tax rates on cap gains for years and years to come.
You're comparing apples with oranges. Both times, they tried the Keynesian nonsense that they're planning on doing this time. At neither time, were the ideas in this bill implemented. It would seem that a different response is in order.
Remember, the object here is to create liquidity in the economy and increase GDP as a result of this “stimulus”
Okies, but none of the policies on the table is going to do that. Any increase in GDP is a Pyrrhic victory, since the money that created the supposed increase had to be first taken out of the private sector, borrowed, or printed, to accomplish that. Any upticks will be quickly slapped down by massive inflation anyway.
Creating liquidity and supposedly increasing GDP with government spending is a fool's errand. The government needs to make a strong statement that it's going to get out of the way of businesses trying to dig their way out of this hole. Will it be easy? No, it won't. But the Keynesian way is only going to prolong the suffering and dig the hole deeper.
The BEA GDP release for Q2 2008 shows what happened to the last “stimulus” from Bush: People put it into savings, by and large. There was little to no “stimulus” from handing people that one-off rebate.
That's exactly right. Giving someone $600 ain't the same as giving them a raise (or a cut in taxes, which amounts to the same thing) that is recurring. One-off rebates don't work and never will.
Hence, this is why job creation and wage growth must be targeted.
Job creation and wage growth? From the government? Are you sure you're on the right website? Let's stimulate both by letting businesses keep more of their money and taxing consumers less, so they have more disposable income to spend. This Keynesian crap is ridiculous. If this crap worked, NY State wouldn't be on the verge of bankruptcy right now.
Yes, the US consumer is shutting their wallets. Let's put some damn money back in it and do it permanently, not on a one off basis. That's what this bill is saying!
The US auto industry is doomed
Yes, it is. That's true regardless of how we deal with this financial crisis. Frankly, IMHO, the whole nation is completely doomed. We've allowed ourselves to force manufacturing offshore by raising the cost of doing business here to ridiculous levels, all to pay for the insane government solutions that you're here advocating for. By not smacking this bullcrap down long ago, we doomed ourselves.
This bill isn't a cure-all, but it's an indication that we're looking to move in the right direction. The wrong direction is for the GOP to jump on the Keynes bandwagon.
If you want liquidity, pass this bill, with your amendment on the offshore tax amnesty, and repeal SOX and we've got, not only liquidity, but a favorable business environment going forward.
But your recent and sudden lurch into graphic vulgarity makes it impossible for me to treat the kids to your sophomoric rants.
Please desist, forthwith, FOR THE CHILDREN.
Try using Firefox for your browser and get the AdBlockPlus addon for it. That way, if a picture bothers you, you can easily block it and you don’t have to look at it.
Do you have a ping list? If so, please put me on it.
Oh, sorry...just saw your post.
Bless you, Senator and Governor....and thanks.
You think the famous image at post 42 is "graphic vulgarity"? My my, Cedric. This is a new low for you.
Enough people and funds (and hedge, sovereign, private equity, et al) are taking losses that the number of people “sitting tight” is a rapidly declining number.
The people “sitting tight” may very well have no gains to show for their efforts after this year, too. If the market continues down, they might well crack and sell too. Everyone has their breaking point.
Quite a few companies are issuing dividends, but the dividends are getting slashed, as I said. A big chunk of dividends in broad indexes like the SP500 came from the finance sector - like just over 30% in 2008 before the crap hit the fan. Those dividends from the finance sector are now down to about 15% of the SP500 dividends - and are probably headed much lower (like to near zero).
Those dividends from financials and banks have held on for FAR too long — and one of the things I think you’ll see in the next TARP round, or coupled onto the executive pay limitation proposal, is that banks who receive TARP funds must eliminate the dividend on the common. When that happens, there’s another chunk of the dividends on the SP500 gone.
Right now, div payouts on the SP500 are at their lowest point in 50 years. This is not your garden-variety recession.
Oh, he does, indeed!
If fact, it's called The Mother Of All Desperately Insecure Ping Lists!
The way to put money back in the consumers’ wallets on an ongoing basis is to target job creation: that is small business. Period, end of discussion. Small businesses don’t out-source. They don’t ship entire plants overseas. They create the majority of jobs here in the US.
So screw the multinationals and their agendas. Furthermore, say “no” to the agenda of multinationals and their demands for more H1B visas. Clamp down on immigration rapidly - both legal and illegal. Without the additional 800K+ jobs we have to create just to employ the wave of immigration, we have a chance to see workers in the US gain some bargaining power for wage increases.
The core of the GOP’s agenda should be as follows: Target job creation (ie, small business) with tax cuts and incentives. Target wage growth by removing excess labor (ie, H1B’s and rampant immigration) from the labor pool.
That’s the only way we’re going to see a sustained increasing in consumer spending power in the US.
[Permanently limit itemized deductions to charitable contributions and mortgage interest, simplifying the tax code.]
WHY? I don’t want to pay federal income tax on money I turned over to state and local governments (real estate tax, state income tax, personal property tax).
Cedric, just go away. Truthkeeper was looking for the ping list referenced by post 2 (i.e., the DeMint and Sanford ping lists kept by upchuck).
Thanks, sweetie.
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