Posted on 02/16/2009 9:46:22 AM PST by Tolik
A question I also had. I couldn't think of a specific item, though I'm sure there could be many proposed. My opinion is that prior to naming Ceaser emperor, it is not too late.
It may be that the level of difficulty increases with time as this path is ventured down. As a result, the probability of success for turning around decreases with time, particularly with regard to the level of economic, political, or societal disruptions that may be associated with avoiding an inherent change in our effective form of government.
It seems like it is way past that tipping point to me;
I hope not. Share your concern, but hope not. I like to think of myself as an optomistic realist...
most conservatives seem to be old codgers, like me and most others on FR, while nearly all youth are libs.
Not sure what your definition of old codger versus youth is. Maybe I fall in between. Age 35, very busy at work (can't be home to answer mid-afternoon polling calls), three youngish children, and many friends in my same great state of life. Greater than 90% of my social circle are diehard conservatives, though we are having a lot more difficulty calling ourselves republicans these days. We still pull the trigger for R, but honestly it hasn't been all that easy.
We are not loud, we can't really take time off to protest or volunteer, we are at the point in our lives where letters to the editors can hurt our professional futures(depending on our employers or clients), we have some spare money, but prefer reducing any debt rather than shoving money down the rathole of a non-conservative republican party. We'd make available our time and money to help, but we also expect results and an intelligent approach to the issues.
More important than any of that, at least I am trying to raise my children right, and teach them well. While that might kill their chance for getting someone elses money in a future wealth redistribution stimulus package in the future, I hope they follow my lead and decide that they would rather be productive citizens and work toward voting bums out of office.
Take care.
And if this camp is designed and run by the Dem's?
Be careful of what you wish for - you just might get it.
Not trying to be argumentative, but this is the type of statement that would fit well on DU. It is beyond the powers allowed to the government by the Constitution.
What feline?!
Disagree.
If you want to change the rules - change the Constitution via the constitutionally required process. Otherwise, please don't advocate for a buearacracy to decide what counts or doesn't count for boot camp, or passing.
Your position assumes that tax burden implies a right to vote. Should corporations have the right to vote based on their tax burden to the government? If not, why not under your plan? How about a disabled veteran? If they can no longer earn and therefore pay taxes, should they not have the right to vote. What amount of tax is adequate? Can my 7 year old vote since they pay sales tax on items I make them buy for themselves?
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think you are missing your own point, and one that you have very insightfully noted:
Voting to limit another person’s rights when you have nothing at risk is another form of tyranny.
That is the issue, and you are 100% correct in my opionion. But the issue here isn't necessarily the voter in my onion, it is the actions of the representative who won the vote that is of issue.
They have for far too long limited "another persons rights" whther that be through the lack of due process in the tidal wave of administrative rules forced upon citizens, or taking their money by force through taxes.
The erosion of the rule of law, and in some cases the outright abuse of it, is the underlying problem. IMHO
BTTT
You have captured my concerns very well.
I would add to it, that I think that those who "welcome" such events are in fact deciding to be lazy and hopin all pans out well for them.
Yeah, but it’s gonna happen sooner than later, so why keep putting it off? Or do you think it’s possible to resolve these issues via the current political process? A lifetime in Calif tells me otherwise. That is, once you cross the tipping point, the resource consumers will never give up their freebies without a fight. They will do anything to keep tax paying serfs chained to the state.
see #47
btt
As I noted, those who believe that something is inevitable are in effect on the sidelines of history. If doing something now is useless, when will it be useful? What does waiting accomplish. I told you so is worthless if you are proclaiming such from the ruins of a once great nation.
When will those who are capable of making a living but chose to survive on the comfort of government handouts say uncle and be part of the solution?
Post #47 is right, those who enjoy the benefits of freebee's will never want to let go of them. There will always be a fight.
The bigger question is, do we avoid the fight today in order to not get our noses bloodied, or do we start today while it is only our noses at stake. Tomorrow it may be our arm, or our family.
Just because it is not easy now doesn't mean that it won't be harder later.
Personal opinion of course.
BTTT!
Admirable but not likely to happen. If you want to be a constitutional purist, let’s go back to the voting rights of 1787. I’d be fine with that...and since the bureaucracy necessary to validate voter qualification is so hard for you to get your head around, perhaps we should get rid of drivers’ licenses too because it’s just so hard to administer.
Or, maybe you could just take the citizenship test at the DMV, just pick test A for driving or B for voting. Gee, that was tough.
No.
So long as persons without a stake in society are given the right to vote for money from the public treasury, the road to servitude is as sure as gravity.
But if you prefer to argue... If you want to be a constitutional purist, let’s go back to the voting rights of 1787. I’d be fine with that...
Doing such would require violating the Constitution of the United State of America. While it would be legally possible to make additional amendments to the Constitution which establish the voting rights you note, doing so without modifying the Constitution through the appropriate processes would be well, un-Constitutional.
I am beginning to have less patience with your lack of respect for the basis upon which our Republic based. Just an FYI.
Per se, what aspects of the voting rights enumerated in the Constitution as of 1787 (as unmodified by future legal amendments) would you find beneficial to achieving the goals of our founding father as it relates to establishing a land of justice which recognizes the unalianable rights contained in our Decleration of Independence?
Again, this question is the result of my lack of patience with your lack of respect for the basis upon which our Republic based.
...and since the bureaucracy necessary to validate voter qualification is so hard for you to get your head around, perhaps we should get rid of drivers’ licenses too because it’s just so hard to administer.
PLEASE, do not EVER type words and claim they are mine. I never have, and NEVER would, state that failing to validate voter qualifications is anything less than fundamental to ensuring that an election is valid.
If you want to change subjects, fine by me, but don't change them for the simple fact that you have nothing to base you opinion on.
Again, since you conveniently avoided it last time, should a veteran who had their legs blown off in combat, and can no longer pay taxes be refused the right to vote?
You stated in post 28 "if you don’t pay any taxes, you don’t get the right to vote."
Should the veteran have the right to vote?
Please, try to stick to the subject.
Also, please don't tell me that you think the DMV has any legal authority, or in any way should be arbiter of who should be allowed to vote in an election.
Unless I am mistaken, I believe that I 100% agreed with the what believe is the real and fundamental issue you posted:
Voting to limit another person’s rights when you have nothing at risk is another form of tyranny.
Again - I completely believe this. But if you want to waste time proposing education camps for citizens, or debaing the voting rights of people, I would recommend refocusing your efforts fixing the system instead of the voted.
Take care.
Thanks for the ping. Interesting read and thread.
Freedom is man’s greatest concept. It is the only concept that buttresses the reality of life. It welcomes all other concepts.
Are those concepts anti-freedom, anti-truth, anti-life?
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It will take a march on Washington to wake the public up
Freedoms March is planning a march on Washington
Anti-Obama organizations are being united for a ‘million man’ march on Washington. The permit is secured
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PRESIDENT OBAMA, WE DEMAND THAT YOU BE TRANSPARENT NOW
We will come together in a peaceful rally. We are proud Americans who fear that we are losing the America we all know and love. The America where millions have served in our military sacrificing and giving their lives so that we remain free. A people who honor their flag and understand what it means to fly it and be so proud to do so. It is time for our voices to be heard loud and clear. Our government is for the people and by the people. Where is that now? We are PRO GOD, PRO LIFE, PRO GUN Americans who see our rights slipping away as we speak. It is time our voices are heard. It is time for us to shout loudly and strongly that we refuse to live under a socialist regime, where our voices are silenced. Lets take this action now before we awaken one morning and our freedoms are nothing more than a memory.
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Freedoms first has recently received permission to hold our protest in Washington DC. Our protest will now be held at the lincoln Memorial Reflections Pool in front of the Lincoln memorial ,on a date that will be released on feb 12 2009.
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And if this camp is designed and run by the Dem's? Be careful of what you wish for - you just might get it.
I want/wish for a constitutional amendment establishing a 'No service, No vote' type principle.
Not trying to be argumentative, but this is the type of statement that would fit well on DU.
Funny way to be unagumentative, saying my idea would be a fit a DU.. -- Get a grip on your empty rhetoric.
It is beyond the powers allowed to the government by the Constitution. If you want to change the rules - change the Constitution via the constitutionally required process. Otherwise, please don't advocate for a buearacracy to decide what counts or doesn't count for boot camp,--
Straw man anyone? -- I'm not 'advocating' any such bureaucracy.
-- I'm advocating that we can have a boot camp type training program, [probably run by our military establishment] That would teach constitutional values to our young people, prior to enabling them to vote..
-I agree with this and have been saying this for a long time. Citizenship should be just as hard or harder to get than a driver’s license.
Citizenship is entirely different than voting, imo. Voting is a privilege accorded to citizens in good standing.. And if a citizen is too stupid to understand the principles of our constitution, and honor/defend them, -- no vote.
Also, if you don’t pay any taxes, you don’t get the right to vote.
Bad way to qualify.. Far too many honorable people pay no taxes..
You have to have skin in the game. Voting to limit another person’s rights when you have nothing at risk is another form of tyranny.
Voting to limit another person’s rights is a violation of the 14th amendment. Limitations on another person’s rights can only be placed by due process of [criminal] law.
1)A disastrously unpopular and incompetent Republican administration
2)A downturn in the economy from manipulated markets, orchestrated money market runs, and collapsing mortgage crisis
3)A propaganda campaign by the MSM to install a radical follower of Saul Alinsky in the White House as a Lincolnesque messiah (sold to a dumbed-down electorate)
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