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14 Dead in Rampage in Binghamton, N.Y. (Perp had a NY pistol license with another alias)
NY Times ^ | April 4, 2009 | ROBERT D. McFADDEN

Posted on 04/03/2009 11:21:36 PM PDT by neverdem

A gunman invaded an immigration services center in downtown Binghamton, N.Y., during citizenship classes on Friday and shot 13 people to death and critically wounded 4 others before killing himself in a paroxysm of violence that turned a quiet civic setting into scenes of carnage and chaos.

The killing began around 10:30 a.m. and was over in minutes, witnesses said, but the ordeal lasted up to three hours for those trapped inside the American Civic Association as heavily armed police officers, sheriff’s deputies and state troopers threw up a cordon of firepower outside and waited in a silence of uncertainty.

Finally, officers who had not fired a shot closed in and found a sprawl of bodies in a classroom, 37 terrified survivors cowering in closets and a boiler room and, in an office, the dead gunman, identified as Jiverly Wong, 42, a Vietnamese immigrant who lived in nearby Johnson City.

Two pistols and a satchel of ammunition were found with the body. In what the police...

--snip--

Little was known about the assailant Friday night. Cautious officials declined to name the gunman, but there appeared to be little doubt about his identity. The name Jiverly Wong was provided by a law enforcement official who declined to be named because he was not authorized to release information.

But the official said Mr. Wong had a New York State pistol license that listed two handguns, apparently the weapons he used at the immigration services center: a .45-caliber Beretta and a 9-millimeter Beretta. The authorities matched the serial numbers of the two weapons found with the gunman’s body to the serial numbers on the pistol license. Officials said they were trying to trace the histories of the guns. Other public records indicated that Mr. Wong had also lived in California in recent years...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; US: New York
KEYWORDS: banglist; binghamton; deathtoll; massshooting; shooting; voong
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1 posted on 04/03/2009 11:21:37 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

I’m glad he wasn’t using a semi automatic rifle.


2 posted on 04/03/2009 11:25:37 PM PDT by KoRn
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To: neverdem

Watch for this incident to be used by Obama and Congress to trample the Second Amendment.


3 posted on 04/03/2009 11:27:38 PM PDT by The Great RJ (chain.)
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To: neverdem

So does this imply the police waited around outside while a number of the wounded bled out?


4 posted on 04/03/2009 11:31:47 PM PDT by JLS
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To: The Great RJ

The Communist propaganda will continue1


5 posted on 04/03/2009 11:33:17 PM PDT by unkus
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To: The Great RJ

The real problem is immigration run a muck. We let anyone into this country, without requirements, sponsors and background checks. We have enough of our own nuts.


6 posted on 04/03/2009 11:35:12 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Bush's recession, Obama's depression.)
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To: neverdem

>But the official said Mr. Wong had a New York State pistol license that listed two handguns, apparently the weapons he used at the immigration services center: a .45-caliber Beretta and a 9-millimeter Beretta.<

Thank you for posting this.

I heard some noise on CNN about that.

2A is really in trouble now.


7 posted on 04/03/2009 11:35:21 PM PDT by Califreak (111th Congress: Destroying America With Reckless Abandon)
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To: neverdem

It appears common that whenever something happens like this the cops are on the scene within minutes but then spend hours outside the structure setting up command posts, placing SWAT teams, etc., etc.

Here the first 911 call went out close to 1030am and the cops went in at 130pm? What the hell?

Obviously they do this for their own safety but it is apparently not working out very well for the victims.


8 posted on 04/03/2009 11:38:27 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (The Democrats want nationalized health care? I'll take the coverage Congress has. Nothing less.)
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To: VeniVidiVici

The NRA and GOA should move immediately to put the grabbers on the defensive about why the public should depend exclusively on police to save them from the big bad psycho when all the police do is sit on their butts and wait while the victims bleed out.


9 posted on 04/03/2009 11:41:35 PM PDT by coydog (Proud to have slept through the Obama coronation!)
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To: VeniVidiVici
Obviously they do this for their own safety but it is apparently not working out very well for the victims.

It's a travesty. Their whole strategy and outlook is not geared for this, but for hostage standoffs. Note that this was even reported as a hostage standoff, because that's the way they were treating it. A travesty!

10 posted on 04/03/2009 11:43:30 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: neverdem

He could’ve done this with a few ball/powder revolvers.

Unarmed people are sheep, it’s just how it is despite liberalism.


11 posted on 04/03/2009 11:45:54 PM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: VeniVidiVici

Especially when you consider that cops are not well paid ... and get sued all the time.


12 posted on 04/03/2009 11:46:07 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: VeniVidiVici
Here the first 911 call went out close to 1030am and the cops went in at 130pm? What the hell? Obviously they do this for their own safety but it is apparently not working out very well for the victim

There is probably the makings of a dark comedy parody on reality movie there.

13 posted on 04/03/2009 11:48:59 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: VeniVidiVici

Usually the best footage of this is of the cops standing outside while the pops go on inside.

Do not EVER expect a cop to defend you. It’ll NEVER happen. My CCW of yore told me that 8 years ago. It’s how it is and always will be.

They are not heroes, they are looking out for #1. They’ll go in after the bodies are piled up and will start the paperwork. It is up to you to defend yourself, in *every* situation.


14 posted on 04/03/2009 11:49:00 PM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: JLS
Yep, just like at Columbine and VA Tech.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

15 posted on 04/03/2009 11:50:55 PM PDT by wku man (Who says conservatives don't rock? Go to www.myspace.com/rockfromtheright)
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To: Califreak
2A is really in trouble now

Yes the gun grabbers will be dancing in the blood again. 

16 posted on 04/03/2009 11:53:09 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: The Great RJ
I'm sure all this took place in a gun free zone.

Its not the guns. Its the sickness of the times. Guns will be the scape goat. But it is all going to get worse as long as the state religion is moral relativism.

So much for hope and change.

17 posted on 04/03/2009 11:53:18 PM PDT by oyez (People! You're being pimped!)
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To: VeniVidiVici; JLS

Exactly, JLS made nearly the same point. I mean, what the hell?

Procedure and protocol mean very little when you are trapped with a madman or are inside bleeding to death.


18 posted on 04/03/2009 11:53:28 PM PDT by WildcatClan (Iam fimus mos ledo ventus apparatus)
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To: oyez

19 posted on 04/04/2009 12:00:27 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: VeniVidiVici
Not supposed to happen. After Columbine, training was changed nationally....first responders GO IN and stop the shooter. Liability.

If the first to arrive called SWAT and hunkered down, NY is going to have to raise taxes to pay the settlements.

20 posted on 04/04/2009 12:08:25 AM PDT by dasboot
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To: Tolsti2
Even firemen are taught thing like “You arrive at a burning building. You hear screams inside. You do not go in there without authorization." Or "you are called to an emergency scene. People are reported down. You do not approach until police arrive."

Its the civilian who has to be prepare and ready to respond.

21 posted on 04/04/2009 12:10:30 AM PDT by oyez (People! You're being pimped!)
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To: dasboot

If the killing was really “over in minutes” I’m not sure how much blame there is.


22 posted on 04/04/2009 12:10:43 AM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: The Great RJ
Watch for this incident to be used by Obama and Congress to trample the Second Amendment.

I'm not worried about Congress. Blue/Yellow dogs won't bite. Nancy said as much. Harry is up for reelection in 2010.

Today in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, 65 Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives, led by Congressman Mike Ross (D-AR), expressed their opposition to the reinstatement of the failed 1994 ban on semi-automatic firearms and ammunition magazines.

23 posted on 04/04/2009 12:16:07 AM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: oyez
Its the civilian who has to be prepare and ready to respond.

Exactly. If there had been a couple of handguns in desk drawers the mortality rate might have been cut in half, or less.

---

Send treats to the troops...
Great because you did it!
www.AnySoldier.com

24 posted on 04/04/2009 12:17:55 AM PDT by JCG
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To: JLS; VeniVidiVici
So does this imply the police waited around outside while a number of the wounded bled out?

Call 911 and die.

25 posted on 04/04/2009 12:18:41 AM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: VeniVidiVici

Columbine again. How tragic for the wounded.


26 posted on 04/04/2009 12:27:40 AM PDT by Carley (President Obama Dropped a MOAB on America)
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To: oyez
Police do not wait for authorization to enter and neutralize active shooters. Not since Columbine's lawsuits changed training.

Firemen...well, yeah. Do you know what firemen call police?

Blue canaries.

If the cops don't start dying, it's safe for the firemen.

27 posted on 04/04/2009 12:31:41 AM PDT by dasboot
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To: oyez
Even firemen are taught thing like “You arrive at a burning building. You hear screams inside. You do not go in there without authorization." Or "you are called to an emergency scene. People are reported down. You do not approach until police arrive."

You need a plan, and you need coordination. If individual firefighters go in half-cocked, they risk not just their own lives but the lives of the people who now have to go in and rescue them.

28 posted on 04/04/2009 12:49:14 AM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: ReignOfError
But there are times when emergency response personnel can use their own judgment instead of waiting for a scene commander to arrive.
29 posted on 04/04/2009 12:59:24 AM PDT by oyez (People! You're being pimped!)
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Marked to read


30 posted on 04/04/2009 1:02:02 AM PDT by Freedom2specul8 (Please pray for our troops.... http://www.americasupportsyou.mil/)
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To: gondramB
If the killing was really “over in minutes” I’m not sure how much blame there is.

It was the 'shooting' that was over in minutes.

31 posted on 04/04/2009 1:10:51 AM PDT by chopperman
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To: chopperman

>>It was the ‘shooting’ that was over in minutes.<<

I see what you mean - the story phrasing was awkward

We don’t know how long it took for people to die. And Did the cops really just wait three hours?!

>>The killing began around 10:30 a.m. and was over in minutes, witnesses said, but the ordeal lasted up to three hours for those trapped inside the American Civic Association as heavily armed police officers, sheriff’s deputies and state troopers threw up a cordon of firepower outside and waited in a silence of uncertainty.

Finally, officers who had not fired a shot closed in and found a sprawl of bodies in a classroom, 37 terrified survivors cowering in closets and a boiler room and, in an office, the dead gunman, identified as Jiverly Wong, 42, a Vietnamese immigrant who lived in nearby Johnson City. <<


32 posted on 04/04/2009 1:14:01 AM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: neverdem

33 posted on 04/04/2009 1:46:45 AM PDT by backhoe (All across America, the Lights are going out...)
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To: Tolsti2
"They are not heroes, they are looking out for #1. They’ll go in after the bodies are piled up and will start the paperwork."

I do agree that it seems that what you describe is an oft repeated scenario, but there are of course those exceptions.

I'm thinking of the cop who was alone when he answered the 911 call last week about the shooter in the nursing home. He went in and had a gun battle with the guy in a hallway. Though wounded three time in the leg, he managed to kill the suspect with a single shot to the chest. Not too many of his type around, I guess. It's unfortunate, but true.

34 posted on 04/04/2009 1:58:52 AM PDT by Mila
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To: KoRn

No but the CNN newsie made sure to say “semiAUTOMATIC”[emphasis hers] over and over.

Here comes the chest beating and bleating babble of false “outrage”.


35 posted on 04/04/2009 3:06:54 AM PDT by Adder (Proudly ignoring Zero's political stylings since 1-20-09!)
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To: BunnySlippers
Especially when you consider that cops are not well paid ... and get sued all the time.

I don't know where you live but LE around here are not only paid very well, extremely high when all the "overtime" is figured in, which seems a natural consequence of their 4 day workweek, but they have the most generous retirement of any public worker, almost double what most public employees receive. Individual police officers have immunity from civil lawsuits, except intentional torts, for activity while on duty.

36 posted on 04/04/2009 4:07:23 AM PDT by Prokopton
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To: KoRn
I’m glad he wasn’t using a semi automatic rifle.

Shhhhh, the media hasn't realized their mistake yet... in that the "hunting" rifle is now an "assault" rifle...

37 posted on 04/04/2009 4:37:30 AM PDT by AvOrdVet ("Put the wagons in a circle for all the good it'll do")
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To: oyez

My daughter and I watched a movie last night about the space program. I pointed out that when people are hired for ability instead of looks, and when they are given rein to do their jobs instead of second-guessed, amazing things could happen.

Unfortunately, that is about 50 years behind us. If we tried the same thing now, a very diverse workforce would fail to get us to the moon, but would feel good about themselves while failing.

Wyatt Earp died a long time ago. His descendants are union.


38 posted on 04/04/2009 4:51:51 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Obama - Making Jimmy Carter look like a giant!)
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To: JLS
So does this imply the police waited around outside while a number of the wounded bled out?

Yes. The idea that responding officers wait is intolerable. In the military you are supposed to run to the sound of the guns.

A short wait for reinforcements and coordination is in order but waiting for that length of time is just cowardly.

39 posted on 04/04/2009 4:52:27 AM PDT by johncatl (...governs least, governs best.)
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To: neverdem
But the official said Mr. Wong had a New York State pistol license....

How in Hades did the guy get that?!

40 posted on 04/04/2009 4:54:33 AM PDT by mewzilla (In politics the middle way is none at all. John Adams)
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To: neverdem

If the other alias was a Muslim name, expect this horrific crime to disappear from the headlines almost immediately.


41 posted on 04/04/2009 5:00:39 AM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: VeniVidiVici

**first 911 call went out close to 1030am and the cops went in at 130pm? **

When Seconds Matter, HELP is only HOURS AWAY!!!


42 posted on 04/04/2009 5:44:30 AM PDT by gwilhelm56 (I GIVE UP .... HEIL Obama!!)
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To: neverdem
But the official said Mr. Wong had a New York State pistol license that listed two handguns, apparently the weapons he used at the immigration services center: a .45-caliber Beretta and a 9-millimeter Beretta.

Another thread has commented that his English wasn't very good.

This is getting stranger and stranger. He's been here this long, is hired by IBM located who knows where without speaking good English apparently, manages to get a pistol permit anyway with another alias....

I can't help but wonder if the NYS Police were involved here. The Troopers don't strike me as the hang around and wait type. Do you have any info on that?

43 posted on 04/04/2009 5:52:55 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: JLS
So does this imply the police waited around outside while a number of the wounded bled out?

If they can show that that happened, I hope that someone pays big time for that stupid decision. Ninety minutes is absolutely inexcusable.

44 posted on 04/04/2009 5:54:34 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Tolsti2

Another FReeper referred to the police as Uniformed Crime Scene Investigators.

Sorry to all the honorable, hard working LEO’s that post on this site. It’s too bad that your compatriots and commanders have earned this reputation for you to have to live with.


45 posted on 04/04/2009 5:57:18 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: neverdem; JLS; VeniVidiVici; dr_lew; BunnySlippers; valkyry1; Tolsti2; wku man; WildcatClan; ...
WTF do we spend all this money on SWAT teams? For the homo-erotic haircuts and the fancy toys?
Then they sit outside while people get slaughtered.

Thanks SWAT. You guys are real heroes.

46 posted on 04/04/2009 6:34:09 AM PDT by starlifter (Sapor Amo Pullus)
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To: JCG

This place was an ACLU allied agency trying to assist aliens and it is unlikely the airhead do gooders who worked there would have thought to keep firearms available even if NY didn’t have such restrictive laws.
I’m just glad it wasn’t an overzealous ant-illegal alien individual who did this,because the commies would’ve been able to use that as a wedge.Now they just have to live with the fact that danger can come from any direction.Kind of blows their concept of a safe,controlled(by social engineers)environment.
The usual human filth like Schumer and Holder will start quacking about killing the 2A again.
This kind of thing is going to happen every so often in a free society.I’d rather chance it than be in thrall to the Marxists who got their boy in the White House now.


47 posted on 04/04/2009 6:40:17 AM PDT by steamroller
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To: neverdem
WHEN are people (other than those who read these forums) going to realize that the police are WORTHLESS to protect citizens from bad things happening?

Are our "leaders" -- people in power that stupid, or are they just so fearful of an armed citizenry (or both)?

WHEN is the unarmed citizenry going to wake up and realize that they, and they alone, are responsible for their own safety and become an ARMED CITIZENRY?

48 posted on 04/04/2009 6:55:19 AM PDT by Jerrybob
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To: neverdem

Can we now finally start banning immigration?—especially from 3rd world hellholes.....


49 posted on 04/04/2009 7:02:56 AM PDT by Mac from Cleveland (How to make a small fortune in the Obama era--first, start off with a big fortune....)
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To: Mac from Cleveland

No sir we cannot we must scapegoat gun ownership and gunowners in some silly ritual cooked up by the bullying leftist pigs. And of course conservatives will blanch afraid of saying anything not PC, afraid of being bullied by liberal thugs.


50 posted on 04/04/2009 7:22:36 AM PDT by junta (Not even respectable mainstream conservatives can save liberalism.)
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