Posted on 04/13/2009 12:00:38 AM PDT by neverdem
“This post showed exactly what I said repeatedly, that so called conservatives, NEWSMAX here (but National Review, your buddies AND YOU!)”
Wrong. You have your cites wrong. You never cited newsmax. I have shown multiple cites that refute that whole line of thought by you: Conservatives back in *2002* were alert to the over-spending and were critiquing the Congress and the President for fiscal irresponsibility and over-spending.
“celebrated the results of Bush/Cheney rapid debt generation, his re-election”
FALSE. Another strawman on your part. Not a single cite has ‘celebrated’ higher deficits. NONE.
FALSE too is the phony claims that Bush won because of the deficits. Even though the economy was strong in 2004, Bush got no particular mileage out of it nor out of the spending he passed. That whole issue was a wash.
“Sure afterward they disowned the specific spending”
FALSE. Not ‘afterwords’ - WHEN IT WAS GOING ON. I gave you 3 cites from mid-2002 of conservatives, Rush, NRO, Heritage and there were others, frowning on the overspending. 35 GOP Senators in 2002 voted *NO* on the Daschle Farm bill and called it a budget-buster, which is what it was. The same story played out on several big spending bill.
THIS WAS WELL BEFORE BUSH’S REELECTION - 6 YEARS AGO!
“they didn’t like that appealed to non-’conservatives’, which got Bush re-elected”
FALSE. Bush’s attempt to appeal via over-spending did not work. The proof is in the polling and President’s current lower popularity. It failed. Rather, Bush beat Kerry on the key issue of decisive leadership and trust to win the GWOT. That is why fiscal cons turned to Bush. The GOP won in 2002 and 2004 on the back of national security issues.
“Now they claim moral supremecy over democrats on debt??”
Those 35 Senate Republicans who voted NO on the Daschle budget-busting Farm bill and those talk radio show hosts who complained about it then, and those conservative opinion leaders who raised the issue back in 2002 have PLENTY of moral authority to speak out now on the far far larger fiscal recklessness of the obama administration.
That is the problem ,they expect these mental midget Rats to automatically be aware of what is going on. Zippy blamed Bush for everything but the Titanic with complete impunity and NO REBUTTAL ,Look until the Zippy neutered GOP Speaks out like our Woman do when and unless we get down in the dirt with these Cretins the RNC will get the Ten count every time! Americans Hate Cowards and that is the current theme.
It's like battered wife syndrome. "He only hit me because he had a bad day...." or "he was drunk..." or "he lost his job... " As each apology does not prove to be adequate justification, they get more creative, but all are excuses for unacceptable behavior. The excuse that is most mindboggling: "It's okay if my husband beats me, but it's not okay if your husband beats me." ;-)
I don't always agree with WOSG, but I do not think the term "Bush bot" is appropriate. AFAIK WOSG does not automatically call out "DU" when someone disagrees with him. Instead, he makes the effort to present his case. In my view, we will need both you and WOSG in the political battles just over the horizon.
From my point of view, the central issue in this thread is the question of whether the "Bush economy" (which was a result of both congress and Bush) was truly healthy, or based too much on borrowing, spending, and swindling. My opinion is that the latter is the case, although Obama is much worse.
A corollary is that the many voters blamed the 2008 mess on Bush personally. That is unfair, but it always happens.
Thank you. I've only criticized the Bush administration spending about a dozen times on this thread alone, so it boggles the mind to get called a 'Bush-bot' simply for telling the REAL truth about who was responsible for over-spending. I cut Bush admin no slack on the issue ... I think majority leader Tom Daschle (2001-2002), Appropriations Chair Ted Stevens, Speaker Pelosi 92006-2007), and RINOs like Rep Gilcrest and Sen Spectre ... and Bush administration had more to do with it than outside the beltway conservative talk radio hosts and conservative Republicans who were vainly voting "no" on the overspending. The facts, votes and records back me up.
That needs to be repeated any time that the left claims some sort of mandate from Nov 4, 2008. How does an ignorant mob give a legitimate mandate?
The other issue I have is unlike 1993 elected republicans have not cleaned house, and they kept the same leadership, and I think given the chance the remaining republicans would repeat their mistakes.
ON WOSG : jumping a few posts back it looks like it was the chart in #79 that set me off, it repeated the “Democrats are worse than Republicans “ theme that was the basis for McCain campaign. My feeling is if that's the best we can do, we are screwed forever. GWB/republicans paved the way for BoB with too many bad precedents and for the time being most of the public has tuned out what democrats are really doing, and what republicans are saying.
As am I. Obama is pre-overrated and Bush is post-under-rated, but lets keep the eye on the ball - our future. I also know, as you do, that Obama's great threat to our country is not at all about the current state of the economy, for which he at most only partly responsible, but his attempt to abuse the crisis in order to implement socialist economic policies. Rahm E. doesnt want the crisis to "go to waste", ie, an Obama Reichstage-fire-like strategy to use a crisis to gain power. We dont want USA to lose its liberty just because a leftist won the Presidency at a critical time.
And I know that us bitching about democrats will have no positive effect in the short term(too many bad precedents by Rs) .
Actually, it has a salutory POSITIVE effect in slowing the obama agenda. Resistance is exactly what the Democrats don't want and why despite their huge advantages they have stage-managed to suppress dissent. The GOP alternative budget is now out there signalling that the Dems own the budget lock, stock and barrel - all $16 TRILLION in spending for the next 4 years.
Here's another win for the good side - Sen Thune was able to put an amendment in that would undercut the evils of cap-and-trade, neutering it. the amendment passed: http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/8554
The only reason such an amendment passed is that Dems fear voter backlash on this. Without heat, they never see the light.
Unfortunately Obama has lots of time before the public blames him for anything, by then....
We err in playing the 'blame game'. that's a LIBERAL thing to do... they LOVE it, and they win that game. Break that game. Stop blaming Bush, Obama, stop talking personality or who said what when .... those are seconary concerns. Get back to basics and the top concern: What is the RIGHT POLICY FOR U.S. ECONOMIC GROWTH AND PROSPERITY?
Either Obama has the right or wrong policies. If he's wrong and there are better alternatives - state it simply: Obama is wrong and his policies will make us poorer.
The right answer is economic freedom - based on lower tax rates, lower Govt spending with no bailouts earmarks or corporate welfare, sound money, level-playing field regulation, and less Govt interference in market.
THIS LEVEL OF DISCUSSION TOTALLY DEFANGS THE LIBERALS. This is not a discussion of past sins, nor does it sink to the level of illogical mindset of the Dems: "Bush screwed up so we have to give Obama 8 years without a peep of criticism before we can judge him." Nope, it is simply based on the question of what is the right way forward.
If you know of a single liberal defending $2 trillion deficits, thousands of earmarks, $16 trillion in spending, govt spending sprees as 'stimulus' ... I'd like to see it. It's not there. Obama's economic plans are a huge house of cards. Nobody actually thinks they are good for the economy.
The other issue I have is unlike 1993 elected republicans have not cleaned house, and they kept the same leadership, and I think given the chance the remaining republicans would repeat their mistakes.
In actuality, the GOP is more conservative now than in 1993 and the leadership is as fresh now as Dole and Newt were in 1993. In actuality, the votes since Jan 1st are a consistent signal that almost all GOPers (save 3 RINOs) "Get it" and have turned a corner.
ON WOSG : jumping a few posts back it looks like it was the chart in #79 that set me off, it repeated the “Democrats are worse than Republicans “ theme that was the basis for McCain campaign.
Just because it was a weak argument for McCain to use doesnt make it untrue! Budget issues are ALWAYS about matters of degree. Even Ron Paul voted for some appropriations and earmarks. So if Democrats increase spending more in one year than the Republicans did in TEN YEARS, yeah, it's a pretty clear "Democrats are more fiscally irresponsible than Republicans" signal.
My feeling is if that's the best we can do, we are screwed forever.
Sure, but dont ever be afraid of the truth. And if you reject 'lesser of two evils' thinking, be prepared to suffer the greater of evils as a consequence. With amnesty, union card check, schools churning out liberal drones, and a liberal MSM slanting the playing field, we may be screwed forever anyway as Democrats seal their majority. An economic turnaround, even a weak one, will be touted for decades as Obama's 'cure'. What compromises would we need to make to get back to 51%??? Surely I hope not too many.
GWB/republicans paved the way for BoB with too many bad precedents and for the time being most of the public has tuned out what democrats are really doing, and what republicans are saying.
If Republicans put toegether a cogent critique of Obama's radical economic and budget proposals NOW, they will all the more credibility as people start to tune them back in, which will happen sooner or later.
I invite you to go to your local Tea Party tomorrow if you can. Aren’t you in the Houston area?
I am going to the Austin one during lunchtime.
Austin City Hall 11:30am
I thought it was the south steps of the state capitol!
Two events -
South side of capitol is at 4pm-7pm.
11:30am to 1pm is Austin city hall.
All the Texas TEA Parties:
http://www.empowertexans.com/texasteaparty
AUSTIN
11:30 a.m. to 1 p.m.
Austin City Hall (Lavaca and Cesar Chavez)
Featuring: Texas Gov. Rick Perry, Railroad Commissioner Michael Williams, State Rep. Wayne Christian, TFR’s Michael Quinn Sullivan, AFP’s Peggy Venable, and many others.
Our theme is “Don’t Mess With Texas!”
5:00 p.m.
South Steps of the Capitol
Featuring: State Sen. Dan Patrick and others. Will include a walk to Town Lake and ceremonial tea dumping.
Thanks. I’ll be there at city hall wearing a safari hat.
Can’t go to the 4PM event though (son’s soccer practice).
Sorry I called you a Bush-bot, you were defending Levin not so much Bush.
BTW,were you listening this day ? : Mark Levin 2007 Flashback ("Tired of you people not doing your homework"
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