Missionary's arrest sparks discussion, fear

Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 4/24/2009 | Sheena Mcfarland

[frankenMonkey]

The arrest of an undocumented immigrant returning last week from his LDS mission has sparked discussion at the highest levels of the church about how to limit such exposure in the future.

"With the known realization that those risks exist, then we want to do better, or at least learn more," LDS apostle Jeffrey R. Holland, said Friday during an interview with The Salt Lake Tribune . "We want to be more precise, if we can, about how to help, how to make [a mission] the calmest, most spiritually rewarding experience for everybody." Early last week, a missionary was detained at the Cincinnati airport for "lacking necessary documentation to board his flight home," according to Michael Purdy, LDS Church spokesman. That triggered fears in the undocumented LDS community in Utah, and already prompted a change in how one Utah missionary returned home.

The young man, a Salt Lake Valley resident, completed a mission in Oklahoma and was scheduled to return home two days after church leaders heard of the unrelated arrest in Ohio. The mission president contacted local Utah church leaders, and it was decided the missionary's uncle would drive out to Oklahoma to bring the missionary home, which he did.

[greyfoxx39]

Quote for the time
“First, we killl all the Jews, then we start with the Mormons...”
In that, they were not unlike the Americans who seem to enjoy killing mormons....

What utter hogwash!

The quote “First, we killl all the Jews, then we start with the Mormons...” was uttered by a MORMON....One of Hübener's local church leaders, Otto Berndt, was sympathetic to Hübener, and was suspected of having assisted and encouraged the boy. Berndt was questioned and released with an ominous warning: "after Jews, Mormons will be next." From the link you posted

Your other statement is also double utter hogwash, "In that, they were not unlike the Americans who seem to enjoy killing mormons....

There are NO "Americans killing mormons", and there is history of mormons killing Americans at Mountain Meadows.

Some folks take the "poor persecuted mormons" theme 'way too far.

I remind you of my earlier post, ""[The Mormon] policy of appeasing the Nazis worked well until the war broke out. Despite the classification of Mormonism as a sect 'dangerous to the state…' according to Gestapo reports, the Church was not summarily dissolved as many others were. The missionaries remained; the Church continued. Even during the war, Mormon life was disrupted more by bombing raids, supply shortages, and travel restrictions than by official harassment. By and large, the German Saints lived through the Thousand-Year Reich much like the rest of their countrymen."
- Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler, “The Fuhrer’s New Clothes: Helmuth Huebner and the Mormons in the Third Reich,” Sunstone, v. 5, no. 6, pp. 20-29

[svcw]

The “I am so put upon”, “I am so persecuted”, “I am so hated” ldser chant is really getitng boooorrring!

Wait is that a way to avoid answering questions and concerns? Nah.

[reaganaut]

Excellent point. I had a friend who served an LDS mission to Germany shortly after WWII and told me that there was quite a bit of opposition because many Germans perceived the LDS as being “in league” with the Nazis.

[reaganaut]

Some have no other defense than to play the “victim card”.

[ASOC]

You semed to have missed the bit before that (Huans Mill, for example) - so, please, go easy o the hogwash claims.

It is an established historical fact that US Military personnel (State Sponsered Milita) did, in fact, kill numerous mormans, livestock and so on. And from the period reports, relished the process.

When stationed in the West - I was struck that the history of the Intermountain West is insperable for the lds saga.

I enjoy studing these folks & their activities in the West from a historical or culture perpective. German history, I’m not so keen on.

You, OTOH, seemed to be consumed by an emotion (I noticed all the caps & bold print) that I cannot fathom.

Believe as you will, as will I - it is America after all.

I live in an area with little if any influence from any church - you may not be so lucky. perhaps that is the source of your ire..

THis non-conversation is over. Thanks for the reply tho.

[HiJinx]

Folks who’ve been on this list for any length of time know that this is probably the first time anything like this has been reported here.

We’ve had illegals harbored by churches and illegals given aid by church groups - I’ve never heard, though, of churches wherein illegal aliens carry out church business under church protection/sanction.

[Theo]

No, a “missionary” wasn’t arrested. An “illegal immigrant” was arrested.

[The Spirit Of Allegiance]

The word “missionary” comes from the root word mission.

The brand of religion is immaterial if one is using the color of religion to create sanctuary as the real mission.

One instance isn’t proof of a massive problem. But if there are many doing this, then that is a different problem.

Any—ANY—faith that condones wholesale breach of moral law even/ESPECIALLY for ‘church work’ is not righteous.

[webboy45]

In the first place, being in the US illegally is not a crime. It is a misdemeanor. No different than a parking ticket or speeding ticket.

Secondly there is no law against aiding an illegal who is already in the US.

Thirdly the Bible says that “God is no respecter of persons.” Thus His church must treat all alike, whether citizen or not.

[reaganaut]

In the first place, being in the US illegally is not a crime. It is a misdemeanor.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Sorry, you are incorrect. Both felonies and MISDEMEANORS are crimes (verified this with my husband the lawyer).

And why don’t the LDS go back to the policy of requiring they serve a mission from their home country? It used to be that if you were here illegally, then you had to go home for a period of time and serve from there.

Again, if a potential missionary was guilty of ANY OTHER CRIME then they would not be considered “worthy” to serve.

[ejonesie22]

Never underestmate the power of good PR...

[reaganaut]

LOL. where did you get that graphic?

I noticed the banner under the car says “All your base are belong to us” - a video game reference.

[Tennessee Nana]

“The arrest of an undocumented immigrant returning last week from his LDS mission has sparked discussion at the highest levels of the church about how to not get caught breaking immigration laws in the future.”

Fixed it...

[Tennessee Nana]

The Most Horriblist Clown of the Week PING

[greyfoxx39]

You stated "Americans ARE killing mormons..."

I may become a little emotional at seeing bald-faced lies in print.

I noticed that YOU are the one that made a statement that has no basis whatever in fact. That I cannot fathom.

[ejonesie22]

Just off the web, though I had a large poster of it for years.

It said something else under the car someone photoshopped in the new saying.

[reaganaut]

I figured since the saying under the car is from a 1989 video game.

Being the geeks we are, it is one of my husband’s favorite sayings.

[Tennessee Nana]

“With the known realization that those risks exist, then we want to do better, or at least learn more,” LDS apostle Jeffrey R. Holland, said Friday during an interview with The Salt Lake Tribune .
___________________________________________________

Gosh, didnt you LEARN from Woodfuff in 1890...

Did you learn nothing about changing your mormo0n doctrine on a dime to fit the occassion and cover your worthless butts from going to jail ???

The mormon god will change his miond and let you obey the laws of the sovereign United States...

The mormon gods changed their minds about polygamy in 1890 and allowed the mormons to obey the bigamy laws...after a fashion..

I’m sure he or they are getting ready to change their or his mind about letting you obey the immigration laws...

It could happen any day...Monson will “prophecy” it any time now...

[Tennessee Nana]

I don’t know how many undocumented immigrants we have serving missions, but I’m sure this is going to repeat itself.”
______________________________________________

Dont they interview these “missionaries”

Arent they vetted and checked out thoroughly ???

Dont they make sure they have the proper documentation, ANY TIME during that TWO YEARS ???

I thought they “raised the bar “”

I thought that “god” called out sent out the missionaries ???

Is it the mormon god’s fault ???

Didnt he have discernment and KNOW that this guy was an illegal alien ???

[Graybeard58]

Zakeet is simply a Mormon Hater

That is a lie.