Uniformed Iraqi kills US soldiers

A man wearing an Iraqi army uniform has shot dead two US soldiers and injured three others in a military base south of the northern city of Mosul.

The US army said the man was also killed in the incident but gave little information about the attack.

But Iraqi military reports said he was a soldier also working as an Imam for at a mosque on the base.

No motive was given for the attack but Mosul is seen as the last remaining urban stronghold of al-Qaeda in Iraq.

The US army said it had received reports of "small arms fire" in Hamam al-Alil, 20 km (13 miles) south of Mosul.

Cultures and people don't change much especially in the Middle East if you'd read history you'd understand that.

If I read history? Typical condescension I expect from the anti-war crowd.

I have personally attended the funeral...

You have no credibility with me. Your claims of personal stories as a substitute to valid counter arguments have no meaning to me.

I never said the U.S. lost

I must have confused you with the defeatist who claimed that our efforts in Iraq are a 'tragic, sad and sorrowful waste'. It must have just been some guy who happens to have an identical screen name as yourself. And speaking of studying history, here are some words you may want to ponder:

"Some skeptics of democracy assert that the traditions of Islam are inhospitable to the representative government. This "cultural condescension," as Ronald Reagan termed it, has a long history. After the Japanese surrender in 1945, a so-called Japan expert asserted that democracy in that former empire would "never work." Another observer declared the prospects for democracy in post-Hitler Germany are, and I quote, "most uncertain at best" -- he made that claim in 1957. Seventy-four years ago, The Sunday London Times declared nine-tenths of the population of India to be "illiterates not caring a fig for politics." Yet when Indian democracy was imperiled in the 1970s, the Indian people showed their commitment to liberty in a national referendum that saved their form of government. Time after time, observers have questioned whether this country, or that people, or this group, are "ready" for democracy -- as if freedom were a prize you win for meeting our own Western standards of progress. In fact, the daily work of democracy itself is the path of progress. It teaches cooperation, the free exchange of ideas, and the peaceful resolution of differences. As men and women are showing, from Bangladesh to Botswana, to Mongolia, it is the practice of democracy that makes a nation ready for democracy, and every nation can start on this path." - George W. Bush 2003

"We must be staunch in our conviction that freedom is not the sole prerogative of a lucky few but the inalienable and universal right of all human beings. So states the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which, among other things, guarantees free elections. The objective I propose is quite simple to state: to foster the infrastructure of democracy, the system of a free press, unions, political parties, universities, which allows a people to choose their own way to develop their own culture, to reconcile their own differences through peaceful means. This is not cultural imperialism; it is providing the means for genuine self-determination and protection for diversity. Democracy already flourishes in countries with very different cultures and historical experiences. It would be cultural condescension, or worse, to say that any people prefer dictatorship to democracy. Who would voluntarily choose not to have the right to vote, decide to purchase government propaganda handouts instead of independent newspapers, prefer government to worker-controlled unions, opt for land to be owned by the state instead of those who till it, want government repression of religious liberty, a single political party instead of a free choice, a rigid cultural orthodoxy instead of democratic tolerance and diversity." - Ronald Reagan 1982

I wasn’t attempting condescension; you avoided my indirect query as to whether you have studied islam and it’s practice. The Koran and it’s operating system, Sharia Law, are a combined theological, political, social and economic system that doesn’t recognize democracy as a legitimate form of government. The Koran’s words are, in islam’s belief, the literal word of God, and cannot change. Period. Any interpretation, or subsequent revelation, are false. The imams who control the religion are like marxist or nazi fanatics, if a break in this faulty logic occurs, the whole system crashes, and they lose total power, hence their actions. It is unlike any other religion currently in practice today, given it’s longevity. Throughout history, it has survived and prospered because of it’s adherence to strictness and its practice of violence and subjugation of believers and non-believers. The fact that muslims in europe are attempting to get Sharia law instituted as part of the legal operating system there proves my point. They will attempt to do the same here as everywhere else. They probe, continually probe, seeking weakness.

As for seeking credibility with you, not a concern, I’ll let time prove my case, whether I’m right or wrong, and if wrong, I will accept it. As for my personal stories, I was not attempting a substitute for counter argument; just providing background, like Buckley used to do regarding his guests on Firing Line.

As for calling me a defeatest, better to call me a skeptic. I have yet to be convinced long-term (anything more than 10 or 20 years) that this process will prove to be a success. I would accept defeat in my argument after the test period is past, not now. I suppose you could argue that I’ve jumped the gun and felt this attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East at the cost of American lives was a waste, and hence I’m a defeatest. If you collapse the time period, then perhaps that label would fit. But only time tells an outcome correctly. I was a boy during the Viet Nam war and thought for sure we would win; what happened? Plenty, but the worst part was the defeat of the South Vietnam’s government at the hands of our own democratically elected government who decided to shut off military aid shortly after we vacated the very country who’s democratically elected government we swore to support, at the cost of 58,000 American lives. I sense the same thing with this new administration.

George Bush’s analysis of history regarding WWII and it’s aftermath, which you correctly quoted, rings true. The free West was highly skeptical of establishing democracy in Germany and Japan during our occupation, which we accomplished after totally destroying the epicenter of their societies, replacing them with like minded peoples to encourage democratic freedoms. Iraq and Afghanistan, will not be so easily done, although I uneasily applauded the effort, at least early on. These countries belief systems are not of their own making, but eminate from Mecca. You can establish a western style system, but her enemies will wait and seek to destroy it. As for Ronald Reagan’s words, also great words to ponder, and probably the greatest U.S President in the 20th Century. Time will tell. By the way, I voted for Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush and would do so again.

Lastly, just because you create a democratic form of government, doesn’t mean it will last. Look at Weimar Germany. Look at Viet Nam. It requires eternal vigilance on the part of the electorate and the people, neither of which can take their eyes off the system, or each other. Democracy takes a lot of effort to create and maintain, and a lot of people the world over are either ignorant (or kept that way), lazy (as long as they get 3 squares a day and place to lay their head, they don’t care) or don’t have, or can’t have, a stake in it to pursue those freedoms. They simply subsist and survive. And to put your life at risk to change that system, most human beings aren’t willing to do so. That takes an extraordinary type of people, and I don’t think they exist in the Middle East.

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