Posted on 05/08/2009 9:59:47 AM PDT by BGHater
Action News 7 | Lincoln Park, Michigan, cop hangs up on girl while father has convulsions.
Worth a View.
Cop Arrests Girl for Swearing During 911 Call[Video]
Charlie known for shocking leaders with anti-Hitler expletives
Posted: January 20, 2004
The foul-mouthed parrot at Winston Churchill's side during Britain's darkest hour of World War II is still alive and cursing Adolf Hitler.
At 104-years-old, Charlie can still be coaxed to repeat favorite sayings, such as "[expletive] Hitler" and "[expletive] the Nazis," London's Daily Mirror reports.
Aside from the under the breath "... what the F**k" just as he answered the phone, she said "We need an ambulance sent to #### (Street). At which point instead of asking what was the purpose of the ambulance, the responder started correcting her etiquette.
A few seconds later they were in my garage and heading for the door into the house. Quite ready to defend my property, I grabbed my .357, explained the situation to the 911 operator and opened the door. The 911 dispatcher said I couldn't defend myself with a gun if the intruders only had a broken bat and mop handle. I feared for my life, I told her, and of course, once the intruders saw my gun they ran out of the garage and took off in their van.
For the next few moments I argued with the dispatcher about her ignorant comment. She refused to back down. It turns out she wasn't law enforcement, but an apparently liberal contractor taking 911 calls only.
Now we live in the country and when seconds count, police are quite a few minutes away... so we don't depend on law enforcement for much of anything.
Hard to believe, but I'm inclined to agree with you on that point.
Unfortuntately, a lot of what you just posted it absoutely correct. Gov't bureacy both protects the workers, as well as makes their lives a soul-sucking drudgery. But, the way these departments are funded, it's almost impossible to hire someone, it's almost impossible to fire someone. Don't hire a minority, file paperwork. You end up with tons of employees, some are driftwood who know that they are 'safe'. Others are really great people, but they can't get promoted because of seniority, or Gov't guidelines - so they are stuck and eventually lose their motivation.
Then there is the unending drudgery of the job itself. I pity the Post Office clerk, who faces endless lines of people. Selling stamps, weighing boxes, fetching the boxes that someone has to pick up. I know what a 'good day' for me is, then I wonder what a 'good day' for this poor person is like. No matter how fast they work, or how slow they work - the lines keep coming. People are impatient, and they are stuck on the receiving end. They are powerless to hire additional help, they are stuck in a broken system.
This is where industry was supposed to shine. Good people got promoted, bad people got fired. Bonus's provided incentive where merit raises failed. Then the bean counters decided that bonus's was wasted money; that everyone is replaceable, loyality was for fools, and it's easier to layoff the plant and move the factory out of the country.
“There is simply no reason for it.”
Wow, Clean up your talk or die?
Note to self:
Don’t let Churchill’s parot call 911 in an emergency.
Why would the doctors swear? They have no reason to. They're not in any danger. How about the people being treated? I've done a little time in an ER, and people who are afraid, wounded, or otherwise not in a stable frame of mind say some pretty colorful things.
What branch of the Military did you serve with? Did you use profanity in your radio communications? Must have been some 'group'.
I was in the Army. OEF and OIF. Most radio communications are professional transfers of information done in non-life threatening situations. In enemy contact or when dealing with wounded, or the otherwise normal chain of events has been punctuated by death or impending death, harsh words do surface.
Is the norm to avoid profanity? Sure. Does profanitizing (Soldiers can make any noun a verb) occur under duress? All the time.
The point your missing entirely is that when a normal person is afraid for their lives, or under tremendous personal stress, they'll say things that will peel paint off the walls. It's a normal reaction. Even the most calm, stalwart professionals I know have have heated up a headset with explicit language when under duress.
A 911 dispatcher who doesn't understand this aspect of human nature should be fired, immediately, and without question. The arrogance of someone sitting at a comfortable desk and demanding people who may be dying to act politely or be refused assistance is monstrous.
Most people figure that swearing doesn't work for them by the 3rd call.
Again, talk anyway you want to talk, anytime, anywhere - just don't demand that somene else has to listen to you. That territory has already been claimed by the Dixie Chicks.
...and if that was your conclusion from the transcript, you'd be wrong. What he began trying to do, which is what you always do with an upset caller, is to get her to slow down and give you the information you need. You don't just dispatch based on someone yelling an address at you. First, Lincoln Park apparently uses a phone triage system where all 911 calls go to the police department. If the police determine it's a fire or medical emergency, they then transfer the call to what is probably a central dispatch facility for fire and medical. So, you can hear the guy tell her to slow down, and she responds by cussing at him. It's not her use of language that prompts him to hang up, it's that she's being combative when he's trying to get the information. It's still not the right action to take, but if you really want to take the time to understand what happened it's important not to mischaracterise the interaction.
LMAO, a 911 operator (not dispatcher) giving (incorrect)legal advice? That’s rich!
I’m in liberal connecticut where we do not have the Castle Doctrine, and in that situation, you’d be within your rights if you were to defend yourself with just a wee bit of tweaking of the storie, as the ME carries the two bodies out the door.
You had me in full agreement, until the last paragraph. Under duress, we do say things we would not normally do. And yes, the Military does alone possess the right to make verbs, adjectives and explictives from a noun. It’s a gift, really.
But, for the 911 Dispatcher; it’s a hard defense to make, but as I do enjoy a good arguement (personality defect my wife loves to point out), it goes back to the statement that you may swear however you like - but you can’t force someone else to listen to you.
I’d be curious to know if there are 911 Dispatcher guidelines regarding this. I’m sure that there has to be something. If a person is to be fired, it should be for a willful infraction of known rules. I wish I had the transcripts as posted yesterday, as quotes are much better than my memory. But, as I recall, the first hangup was a result of profanity. The second hangup was the result of profanity, the third was a series where the Operator and caller got into a name-calling match. It went downhill from there.
Was this professionally handled? No. Is there a mountain’s worth of room for improvement? Yup. Was this handled in a way that I would have handled it? Not at all.
What should have happened? All the 911 Operator had to do is firmly insist that he will not tolerate profanity - then allow the young lady to proceed. But, then we wouldn’t have a story. And as pointed out on a previous post, this happend months ago - why is it making the news today? Could it be because she’s planning to sue?
The transcript’s here:
Thanks ... not really a transcript, more of an interview.
Still, of interest is the fact that the interview is posted on 10/02/2008 2:14 pm, with the last sentence stating “Meanwhile, Ledesma and her father who is home recovering has hired an attorney, and they’re talking settlement with the Lincoln Park. “
Now here it is, 5 months later....
Enhanced 911 displays the name, addy and phone number of the complainant. Law enforcement must respond even to hang-up, kids playing on the phone, etc.
The guy screwed up. There was an obvious problem and he ended the call.
Ive worked for 3 departments as an E911 operator for the past 9 years. Ultimately, the officer/dept is liable if help was not rendered regardless of any expletives used by the complainant.
Absolutely right. If I was that public servant, sworn to protect and serve I would have just let her father die outright because she said a dirty word.
I don’t disagree, although telco data is in error anywhere from three to ten percent of the time. In a department where you’re doing a screening and will be transferring the call to fire, you have to find out what the incident is. You can’t do that if you can’t get the caller to tell you.
In the city I’m in, we’re a little leery of just dispatching blind because of some of the recent ambush incidents around the country. So our city’s dispatchers will usually try to ‘talk down’ the caller to get the info. If the caller hang-ups, they send both police and fire with instructions to fire to stand back, then try to reconnect with the caller to figure out what’s really happening. You don’t know whether she’s calling for an ambulance because she just shot her kids, or because someone’s ill.
Although there’s a moral and professional responsibility to get the call handled, the liability situation is much less clear cut.
Firmly insisting to a hysterical woman is probably what got him in trouble with the exchange. Smooth reassurance and ignoring the outbursts instead of feeding them would have calmed her instead of instigating her. He was not cut out for 911 that day, maybee not ever.
A few months later while we were selling that house, somebody broke in while we were gone. When we came home and heard them upstairs I grabbed the same .357 and called 911. The very same operator told me to leave my loaded gun in the house and leave. "What?" I asked. "You want me to leave a loaded gun in the house so the intruder can shoot me in the back while I'm leaving?" She was almost speechless...I had some choice words for her again.
I wasnt suggesting making false reports, I was referring to something that happened to me. sorry wasn’t specific
She apparently knew the protocol, but wasn’t aware of how to apply it. Had the burglars been gone, she wouldn’t want you to be outside waiting for the officers with a gun in hand. But in the situation you mentioned, that’s a pretty clear example of the phrase “person unclear on the concept”.
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