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Bill In Congress Would Prohibit Gun Sales To Anyone Government Decides Is A “Terrorist”
KXMC TV ^ | 5/9/2009

Posted on 05/09/2009 10:15:02 PM PDT by markomalley

And the bill was introduced by a Republican, no less.

A new gun law being considered in Congress, if aligned with Department of Homeland Security memos labeling everyday Americans as potential “threats,” could potentially deny firearms to pro-lifers, gun-rights advocates, tax protesters, animal rights activists, and a host of others – any already on the expansive DHS watch list for potential “extremism.”

Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., has sponsored H.R. 2159, the Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2009, which permits the attorney general to deny transfer of a firearm to any “known or suspected dangerous terrorist.” The bill requires only that the potential firearm transferee is “appropriately suspected” of preparing for a terrorist act and that the attorney general “has a reasonable belief” that the gun might be used in connection with terrorism.

Gun rights advocates, however, object to the bill’s language, arguing that it enables the federal government to suspend a person’s Second Amendment rights without any trial or legal proof and only upon suspicion of being “dangerous.”

I don’t think anyone really has a problem with keeping weapons out of the hands of terrorists. The problems arise when it comes to who gets to define who is and is not a “terrorist.” And what standards are used. Also, since when can our rights be denied us because we might commit a crime?

According to the Department of Homeland Security attending a tea party, being a federalist, having an NRA sticker on your car or being pro-life indicates that you may be a terrorist. Or may, at least, have inclinations toward extremism and violence.

Now, I doubt that even if this law passed that we’d see a crackdown on gun-owning pro-life activists. But the problem here is that this law provides such a vague definition of who may and may exercise their 2nd amendment rights that the door is left wide open to no small amount of abuse.

Vaguely-written laws like this are extremely problematic because they put the decision as to whether or not we’ve committed a crime entirely as the discretion of cops and prosecutors. And if that’s the case, the only thing keeping us from being arrested and/or prosecuted are the whims of our law enforcement agents.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: 111th; banglist; communism; congress; dhs; donttreadonme; fascism; homelandinsecurity; hr2159; lping; peterking; rightwingextremism; rightwingextremist; rino; secondamendment; shallnotbeinfringed; teaparties; teaparty
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Right wing extremists anybody?

The bill number is H.R. 2159

Relevant portions:

`Sec. 922A. Attorney General's discretion to deny transfer of a firearm

    `The Attorney General may deny the transfer of a firearm pursuant to section 922(t)(1)(B)(ii) if the Attorney General determines that the transferee is known (or appropriately suspected) to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism, or providing material support thereof, and the Attorney General has a reasonable belief that the prospective transferee may use a firearm in connection with terrorism.';

      (2) by inserting the following new section after section 922A:

`Sec. 922B. Attorney General's discretion regarding applicants for firearm permits which would qualify for the exemption provided under section 922(t)(3)

    `The Attorney General may determine that an applicant for a firearm permit which would qualify for an exemption under section 922(t) is known (or appropriately suspected) to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism, or providing material support thereof, and the Attorney General has a reasonable belief that the applicant may use a firearm in connection with terrorism.'; and

      (3) in section 921(a), by adding at the end the following:

    `(36) The term `terrorism' means `international terrorism' as defined in section 2331(1), and `domestic terrorism' as defined in section 2331(5).

    `(37) The term `material support' means `material support or resources' within the meaning of section 2339A or 2339B.

Gee, I guess if you are identified as a right wing extremist by DHS, you might be appropriately suspected, huh?

And by the way, I know the term "reasonably suspected," but what does "appropriately suspected" mean?

And then there's this:

(h) Attorney General's Ability To Withhold Information in Relief From Disabilities Lawsuits- Section 925(c) of such title is amended by inserting after the 3rd sentence the following: `If receipt of a firearms by the person would violate section 922(g)(10), any information which the Attorney General relied on for this determination may be withheld from the applicant if the Attorney General determines that disclosure of the information would likely compromise national security. In responding to the petition, the United States may submit, and the court may rely on, summaries or redacted versions of documents containing information the disclosure of which the Attorney General has determined would likely compromise national security.'.

So I guess that means that they don't have to tell you exactly why they are denying your application. Nice.

1 posted on 05/09/2009 10:15:02 PM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

King should be impeached for violating his oath or tried for treason.


2 posted on 05/09/2009 10:16:35 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (Defending RINOs is the same as defending Liberals.)
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To: markomalley

Terrorist: Anyone who commits a violent act for a political purpose.

Potential Terrorist: Anyone with political views.

See why this word “terrorist” is a poor word to use instead of Jihadists?

Terrorism is simply a tactic, and any psychopath can be a terrorist, but it takes a dedicated Muslim to be a Jihadist.


3 posted on 05/09/2009 10:17:38 PM PDT by Boiling Pots (Barack Obama: The final turd George W. Bush laid on America)
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To: markomalley

Weird. Any attempt to repost this and I get html gibberish.


4 posted on 05/09/2009 10:19:59 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade, There are only two sides. Pick one.)
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To: markomalley

And Peter King might also end up as the final GOP candidate for the ‘10 N.Y. U.S. Senate seat. I’m hoping that George Pataki does decide to also run for this seat, and then wins in, first, the GOP primary election and, then, the general election in ‘10. I’m not a fan of Pataki, though, but getting a true conservative to win anything major politically in N.Y. state really will be difficult to do.


5 posted on 05/09/2009 10:24:38 PM PDT by johnthebaptistmoore (Conservatives obey the rules. Leftists cheat. Who probably has the political advantage?)
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To: markomalley
It appears due process is being thrown out the door. This is a flexible bill of attainder that can be twisted any way the bureaucrat sitting in the Attorney General's office desires.
6 posted on 05/09/2009 10:26:39 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Eagle Eye

I don’t think King had Obama’s list in mind.


7 posted on 05/09/2009 10:27:42 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade, There are only two sides. Pick one.)
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To: markomalley

And they wonder why conservatives are abandoning the GOP.

...With Republicans like these... ?


8 posted on 05/09/2009 10:28:21 PM PDT by Miykayl
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To: markomalley

which permits the attorney general to deny transfer of a firearm to any “known or suspected dangerous terrorist.” ............................... LOL! Like its going to be hard for a terrorist to get a weapon? Its a waste, there are suppliers all over the world, they don’t need anyone in the USA to supply them. We are a country with a huge coast line and long borders, its not really difficult to bring in weapons. We haven’t stopped the drugs from coming in, how are we going to stop the evil ones from getting weapons? Rhet/


9 posted on 05/09/2009 10:30:42 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (tagline under renovation, will return soon.)
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To: markomalley
I thought the PC people said we were not to use the word terrorist.
10 posted on 05/09/2009 10:47:12 PM PDT by easternsky
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To: sageb1
I don’t think King had Obama’s list in mind.

Doesn't matter.

Eric Holder, and any future Attorneys General of his ilk, would apply the law the way they wanted, not the way King had in mind.

11 posted on 05/09/2009 10:49:11 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: markomalley

What do these assclowns do... introduce 5 America destroying bills a day and see which ones pass?

Geez, I can’t stand any of them.


12 posted on 05/09/2009 10:50:15 PM PDT by KarenMarie (NEVER believe anything coming out of DC until it's been denied.)
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To: markomalley

King is a RINO. The bill is a POS.


13 posted on 05/09/2009 11:00:54 PM PDT by karnage
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To: markomalley

The 2nd Amendment as the rest of the Constitution means nothing to these characters.


14 posted on 05/09/2009 11:01:22 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: bamahead

WTF?!?!? This is incredible!


15 posted on 05/09/2009 11:19:04 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: markomalley

What is it in the water in Washington that gives even Republicans harebrained ideas?


16 posted on 05/09/2009 11:35:59 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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To: markomalley
If someone is deemed to be a terrorist, should not we first worry about why he is on the loose and/or inside the country, before we worry why a known terrorist would be trying (for some reason) legally buy a gun?

Or does one become a "terrorist" while in the process of legally buying a gun, having not been a "terrorist" before?

17 posted on 05/10/2009 12:13:15 AM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: markomalley

There are no terrorists. There are only Freedom Fighters and Insurgents.


18 posted on 05/10/2009 12:46:15 AM PDT by fish hawk (The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: fish hawk

sumbuddy shoulda’ seen this one comin’— this is what they do in 3rd world countries oh yeah, right, we already are


19 posted on 05/10/2009 12:47:42 AM PDT by MissDairyGoodnessVT (Mac Conchradha - "Skeagh mac en chroe"- Skaghvicencrowe)
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To: fish hawk

sumbuddy shoulda’ seen this one comin’— this is what they do in 3rd world countries oh yeah, right, we already are-—and obviously Michael Savage is banned from the UK-
they get ya’ comin’ & going don’t they?


20 posted on 05/10/2009 12:51:02 AM PDT by MissDairyGoodnessVT (Mac Conchradha - "Skeagh mac en chroe"- Skaghvicencrowe)
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To: markomalley
Republican ≠ conservative

21 posted on 05/10/2009 12:54:13 AM PDT by Redcloak ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: markomalley
At this point if you don't have what you will need you haven't been paying attention. Let them pass whatever damn law they please.

Μολὼν λάβε


22 posted on 05/10/2009 3:49:05 AM PDT by wastoute (translation of tag "Come and get them (bastards)" and the Scout Motto)
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To: wastoute

And with the degree of unity which is currently being demonstrated among Constitutional Americans, conservtives will be picked off one at a time, and the government will, “Come and take them.”


23 posted on 05/10/2009 4:10:48 AM PDT by Quiller (When you're fighting to survive, there is no "try" -- there is only do, or do not.)
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To: markomalley

This bill would levy the sentence BEFORE conviction, BEFORE trial, and even BEFORE arrest! All based upon a bureaucrat’s OPINION.


24 posted on 05/10/2009 4:20:00 AM PDT by 2harddrive (...House a TOTAL Loss.....)
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To: wastoute
At this point if you don't have what you will need you haven't been paying attention.

I have what I need, but there's always room for more.

25 posted on 05/10/2009 4:26:02 AM PDT by SIDENET (Hubba Hubba...)
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To: Quiller
As I have posted before, the outcome of the gummint's attempt to "come and take them" matters not to me either way. Win or lose I will never live on my knees. America: it was a good idea. It is over already. We either continue as serfs or regain our liberty. Those of us who fail to survive on the "losing end" (if it comes to that) will not have to endure what follows. We win or die. I am good with that. As my friend in Bible study likes to say, "I stayed prayed up" and I "Know Him" (see John 17:3, the "other half of 3:16). So in that spirit I say:

Μολὼν λάβε


26 posted on 05/10/2009 4:27:39 AM PDT by wastoute (translation of tag "Come and get them (bastards)" and the Scout Motto)
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To: markomalley
Hey King...

"Up yours!!!

27 posted on 05/10/2009 4:34:33 AM PDT by SIDENET (Hubba Hubba...)
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To: markomalley
Thats ok... I don't ask the Attorney generals “permission” to purchase a firearms now. So I really couldn't care less if they designate me a terrorist or not. When I purchase gun, I deal with individuals, cash only, no names. I haven't gone through “the proper channels” since that Brady bill nonsense was passed back in the 90’s.
28 posted on 05/10/2009 4:39:52 AM PDT by apillar
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To: markomalley

Beware the unintended consequences!

Garbage legislation such as this will lead to the ruination of the nation, IMO.


29 posted on 05/10/2009 5:15:15 AM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: sageb1

“I don’t think King had Obama’s list in mind.”

You are correct. I have never heard King say anything that I didn’t agree with. He is one of the “good ones” here in NY.

For those bad-mouthing him without knowledge of his past words.... they should do some homework. This bill must be re-written and then proposed.


30 posted on 05/10/2009 5:37:43 AM PDT by panaxanax (Reward paid for any Harvard Yearbook with pictures of 0bama in it.)
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To: markomalley

The bill sets up a new class of citizen, with reduced civil rights based upon suspicion by the Administration.


31 posted on 05/10/2009 5:42:46 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money -- Thatcher)
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To: wastoute

Very... well... stated.


32 posted on 05/10/2009 5:43:01 AM PDT by TheZMan ("I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.")
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To: markomalley

This reminds me, I keep forgetting to put my NRA sticker on my car.


33 posted on 05/10/2009 6:59:26 AM PDT by Piquaboy (Military veteran of 22 years in Navy, Air Force, and Army.)
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To: markomalley

And Sean acts as if King is a wonderful Conservative Republican.


34 posted on 05/10/2009 8:20:49 AM PDT by Paige ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing," Edmund Burke)
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To: markomalley
I AM
The Freedom-loving,
GOD Worshiping,
Pro-Life,
Constitution-Supporting,
Military Veteran,
Patriot,
HOMELAND SECURITY
WARNED YOU ABOUT!

35 posted on 05/10/2009 8:24:02 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country! What else needs said?)
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To: SandRat

36 posted on 05/10/2009 8:27:57 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Paige
And Sean acts as if King is a wonderful Conservative Republican.

I certainly hope that Hannity is not your barometer of conservative orthodoxy!

37 posted on 05/10/2009 8:31:58 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley
"I decide who is a Jew terrorist." -Joseph Goebbels Rahm Emmanuel
38 posted on 05/10/2009 8:34:10 AM PDT by gundog
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To: markomalley

Anyone who wants to buy a gun will soon be by definition a potential terrorist.


39 posted on 05/10/2009 8:38:40 AM PDT by Clint Williams (Read Roto-Reuters -- we're the spinmeisters | America -- a great idea, didn't last.)
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To: Eagle Eye
King should be impeached for violating his oath or tried for treason.

Ain't gonna happen. You've lost control of your nation.

America -- a great idea, didn't last.

40 posted on 05/10/2009 8:39:51 AM PDT by Clint Williams (Read Roto-Reuters -- we're the spinmeisters | America -- a great idea, didn't last.)
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To: Myrddin
It appears due process is being thrown out the door.

"Due process" was thrown out a long, long time ago. But you weren't watching.

America -- a great idea, didn't last.

41 posted on 05/10/2009 8:41:14 AM PDT by Clint Williams (Read Roto-Reuters -- we're the spinmeisters | America -- a great idea, didn't last.)
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To: fish hawk
There are only Freedom Fighters and Insurgents.

No there aren't. All I see is people who make a lot of noise online in like-minded forums. There is no fighting, there is no insurgency. Nowhere in this country. The sheeple are passively accepting what the Founding Founders rejected.

America -- a great idea, didn't last

42 posted on 05/10/2009 8:45:58 AM PDT by Clint Williams (Read Roto-Reuters -- we're the spinmeisters | America -- a great idea, didn't last.)
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To: 2harddrive
This bill would levy the sentence BEFORE conviction, BEFORE trial, and even BEFORE arrest! All based upon a bureaucrat’s OPINION.

The Rule of Law is dead; all hail the Rule of Man.

43 posted on 05/10/2009 9:16:12 AM PDT by sionnsar ((Iran Azadi | 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | "Also sprach Telethustra" - NonValueAdded)
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To: KoRn; Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; ...
This only strengthens my arguement that the GOP is utterly and completely clueless about what it means to be a conservative.



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!
44 posted on 05/10/2009 9:22:42 AM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: markomalley

Bill In Congress Would Prohibit Gun Sales To Anyone Government Decides Is A “Terrorist”

Nice Catch-22 there. I can see how this Administration can make use of this law:
  1. Anyone considered to be a terrorist may not own a gun;
  2. All people who want to own a gun are considered to be terrorists; therefore,
  3. All gun owners are prohibited from owning a gun.

45 posted on 05/10/2009 9:30:53 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (Obamanation: an imploding administration headed by a clueless schmuck, with McCain as his Kowakian)
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To: markomalley
No, I listen and decide. My idea of a true Conservative is someone who understands true Conservatism, who believes in small government, checks and balances, takes politics seriously because this nation is under siege, and does not associate with RINOS and LIBERALS who are trying to destroy this country.

Most of all, they understand the Constitution, the Intent of the Framers, and Rule of Law because we are a republic. Does that help? :)
46 posted on 05/10/2009 9:31:26 AM PDT by Paige ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing," Edmund Burke)
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To: Clint Williams
You missed my sarcasm. I was referring to the mood now where the media calls terrorist in the Mideast, insurgents and freedom fighters rather than use the “terrorist” word. So if there can be NO terrorist over there, how can there be terrorists here in America.
47 posted on 05/10/2009 9:32:16 AM PDT by fish hawk (The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Paige
No, I listen and decide.

Good.

The point is that whether Sean, Rush, or even Mark say something is not a reason to accept what they say as divinely inspired truth. That is what liberals do with their little cult of personality that they have. Conservatives, like us, think.

48 posted on 05/10/2009 9:54:16 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: wastoute

Spot on. Well said.


49 posted on 05/10/2009 10:03:06 AM PDT by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed *NRA*JPFO*SAF*GOA*SAS*CCRKBA)
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To: markomalley
Μολὼν λάβε
50 posted on 05/10/2009 11:18:41 AM PDT by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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