Skip to comments.On "Birthers"
Posted on 07/29/2009 7:25:35 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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I suspect the other records will probably make him look bad, which is why he won't release them. Unfortunately, he is under no legal or constitutional obligation to do so, and judging by the last election, very few voters care whether or not he does. Hence continuing to demand those records ad nauseum will not bear any fruit and is a collasal waste of time.
I suggest you move on to something more likely to yield results, like attacking his policies.
No one has said the COLB is even legit.
What a nice textbook example of the tactic of burden shifting!
FYI, when a person makes an assertion, the burden is on him to prove he's correct, not on others to prove he is incorrect.
Nevertheless, I will indulge you and cite caselaw anyway, even though the burden of proof is on you.
From U.S. v. Kim Wong Ark:
"...every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.
"III. The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established.
as I am one of the most frequent posters on this subject, next to pissant, and have done a lot of reading on
Unfortunately for you, the quality of the reading one does is more important than the quantity.
No one except the state of Hawaii.
Barack Obama Presidential Library, Teleprompter World Headquarters, Record Depository and Transparency Center
Are you cleared for Crypto?
Yes, but what I said was that it might be a different father from the one on the "certificate of live birth" and the one Obama claims. Being a proven liar (one more time) is a different issue than being a bastard.
...a natural-born American citizen and a complete fraud...
He is a fraud in many ways. He lies all the time.
I wonder why Rahm Emmanuel made that trip to Kenya last year?
Omana has other scandals related to Afica. Link: Jerome Corsi, anti-Obama author, detained in Kenya
Emanuel also might have cleaned up Hussein Obama Senior's paperwork in Kenya.
By the same token, it's a colossal waste of your time to bother reading these threads, right? I suggest you move on to something more likely to yield results, like attacking his policies.
....and how do you know that I don't walk and chew gum at the same time?
Once upon a time, liberals "advised" us to Move On, something like it was only about sex. This is when MoveOn.org was created. Well' I'm sure you know how this turned out.
I guess he’s like the prom queen who wins by knocking off all her competitors with rumors, stealth, and meanness. Can he ever really relax and bask in this position, knowing that ACORN and other subterfuge pulled it off for him? It’s almost as though he has to verbally reassure HIMSELF that he really isn’t dreaming and that he actually inhabits the White House. But I wonder if the satiation of living large in the W.H. will set in, and it will be old hat for him before long. Wish I knew what psychiatrists know about narcissism. Will he overreach even MORE because he’s finding out that Americans can only be pushed so far?
?If true, HOW would he be removed from the White House?? In handcuffs.
Probably not. That Racial
Thang dontcha know.
LOL. BS, bro, BS
And...so what? Is this a nation of laws, or of men? If he is proven ineligible to be POTUS, what would you want to happen?
No, he can never, ever truly relax, because he knows in his heart that he came to power through lies, misrepresentation, subterfuge, and mass marketing to an ill-informed electorate.
He also has the threat of the traditional American system of government hanging over his head. He can't really get away with the sort of things that go on in South America, and he knows it. Push The People too far, and they will have your head, one way or another.
He also knows in his heart that his Socialist policies are so much utopian dogma and theories that do not work in the real world. He's finding out quickly that when far-left ideology meets The Real World, far-left ideology crumbles, every time.
It's got to be a helluva position to find oneself in. Even the perks and supreme power of being US President won't protect him from what's coming. And, it is coming, just as surely as night follows day. No, he'll never be able relax, because he's a fraud. A charlatan. And he knows this to be true in his own heart.
By this time next year, he's going to look old and haggard from the external and internal pressures. Hell, he may even need a suicide watch by that time, it'll be so bad.
Read it and weep: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf
By this time next year, he's going to look old and haggard from the external and internal pressures. Hell, he may even need a suicide watch by that time, it'll be so bad.
The $100/lb. waygu beef is turning to dust in his mouth. Soon he won't enjoy the taste of anything.
I am certain BO sleeps with one eye open.
RE “And...so what? Is this a nation of laws, or of men? If he is proven ineligible to be POTUS, what would you want to happen? “
What do you mean by proven? You mean like Dan Rather and Bush?
If it is true that, according to the Constitution, to be President a person must be a "natural born citizen," and if it is true that the two requirements for being a "natural born citizen" are 1) being born in the U.S. and 2) both parents must be U.S. citizens, then is it not therefore true that Obama is ineligible for the Presidency because his Kenyan father was a British subject and held no U.S. citizenship?
If this is true, it doesn't matter where Obama was born. The fact his father was not a U.S. citizen precludes his being President. Period.
It's got to be making him crazy that he made it to the mountaintop, yet can't enjoy his time in history because of the approaching storm.
He's no more than a cornered rat in a palace, but he's committed a crime of almost unimaginable proportions. The repercussions will be likewise almost unimaginable for him.
He's gonna need more drugs than MJ to cope.
It is not true that in order to be a natural born US citizen that both parents must be US citizens. Only one must be, but there is both an age and a residency requirement for that one if the baby is born out of the USA.
I think I have that right.
For example, Obama would not be a natural born US citizen, even if his mama were a US citizen, if he had been born out of the US prior to her having attained X age + X years of residency over a certain age.
I was basing these stipulations on the following page from theobamafile.com
Note in the section defining natural born citizen there is a judicial citation supporting the two-parent rule...
NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
Both are U. S. Citizens
Born in the U.S. mainland
Per the following...
US Constitution Art. II, Sec. 1, Cl. 5. U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)
Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939)
“being a “natural born citizen” are 1) being born in the U.S. and 2) both parents must be U.S. citizens,”
What this means is that no clone or unnaturally birthed person can be President......that might disqualify the House majority leader as third in line.
Please, he’s arrogant enough. Don’t give him any more ideas. He already thinks he’s the second coming.
Is Satan a US Citizen?
Or was he a citizen at the time that Obama was conceived?
I always look to you for the dry, textbook response.
Here is the current US Code. Para G is the issue, iirc. I understand that the law for natural-born citizenship at the time of birth is the law that determines. Pissant has, I believe, a link to what the actual law was in 1961 when Obama was born.
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person; (f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.
But as was pointed out, there is a difference between "nationals" and "citizen" and "native born citizen" and "natural-born citizen."
A child born in the US to two illegal immigrants in the US is a citizen of the US, but he is not eligible for the Presidency.
The question is where is "natural-born citizen" defined?
Your non-answer to a very simple question is telling.
“nationals and citizens...AT BIRTH” = “natural born”
“Natural born” is all about being “born” a citizen of the US.
Some are not “born” citizens and have to be granted citizenship at some point AFTER birth. Many believe that is the case with Obama. There is no doubt that he is NOW a citizen. The question is whether he was automatically a citizen at birth.
If his mother, 18 at the time of his birth, was overseas with her man, Obama Sr., in his native country, then BO’s mom did NOT fulfill the 5 year requirement for residency after the age of 14 listed in the law above.
I understand that to be the legal argument against BO’s “born a US citizen” status.
I believe that citizen-at-birth is a necessary, but not a sufficient basis for finding "natural born citizen" for constitutional purposes, under the intention of the founders.
If one adopts the construction you advocate, then an infant born to illegal aliens, literally with allegiance to a foreign nation, and raised with allegiance to a foreign nation, is "natural born" and therefore eligible. But the writings of the day bothered to notice the allegiance of the parents. Your analysis doesn't notice the allegiance of the parents, at all.
Right or wrong (I think it’s wrong), the way the current law is written, the infant of illegal aliens, if that infant is born in the USA, is a natural born US citizen.
See paragraph “a” in post 128, which is a copy/paste of Title 8, Section 1401 US Code.
That’s why folks get upset over “anchor babies.”
Some lawyer can feel free to correct me, if I’m wrong.
The word "natural" (and therefore the legal term of art, "natural born citizen") does not appear in 8 USC 1401. 8 USC 1401 defines "citizenship," and that terms appears as a qualifier for Congress.
-- That's why folks get upset over "anchor babies." --
Not exactly. The anchor baby phenomenon irks people because the babies are used to give immigration/naturalization preference to people who broke the immigration laws in the first place.
The qualification for the presidency is an issue that occurs infrequently, and to a small fraction of the population.
While the location of birth is highly relevant in a citizenship inquiry (countries tend to want to "control" everybody born on their turf), the citizenship of parents is ALSO highly relevant, and in some cases is absolutely determinative.
Naturalization Act of 1790 (http://pds.lib.harvard.edu/pds/viewtext/5596748?op=t&n=1)
And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond fea, or out of the limits of the United States, fhall be confidered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenfhip fhall not defcend to perfons whofe fathers have never been refident in the United States
You do realize that under xzin's Constitutional find that Spock has a chance to be elected.
Spock is the son of Vulcan ambassador Sarek and human Amanda Grayson.
This lady was holding this sign at an LA Times freep back in Oct.
The document is about "Acquisition of US Citizenship by Birth Abroad to a US Citizen Parent." Obama wasn't born abroad, so I don't see how this is at all relevant. Please clarify.
None of the other documents the woman is asking for are in any way relevant to his eligibility to be president.
By conflating the two issues, you are contaminating the legitimate one (lack of transparency) with an absurd one (eligibility).
Your belief is wrong. See US v. Kim Wong Ark.
The citizenship of the parents is only relevant when the child is born abroad. If born on US soil, it is not.
This need not justify anchor babies, however. To be a natural born citizen, a child needs to be born in the US and be "subject to the jurisdiction thereoff." That's why US-born children of diplomats aren't citizens at birth.
While a legal resident alien is clearly under US jurisdiction, it has been argued that an illegal alien, and therefore his offspring, is not. SCOTUS has not definitively resolved this matter.
I'm aware of that case, and choose to avoid you in dialog. Good day.
Yours too so I will repeat it. What do you mean by proved? A Dan Rather CBS National Guard type document?
Simple answer, that would be a disaster as the other one was in 2004 except now Obama IS already president which puts it in “Bush planned Sept 11” crackpot territory..
No one cares(but MSNBC) where he was born . You are a tree branch falling in the woods thousands of miles from anyone.
I don’t know why he gets away with hiding all these documents. He isn’t being transparent, is he?
Part of the reason is that many of the people asking for the documents are unhinged. The very idea that the documents would somehow prove a birth anywhere other than Hawaii is absurd. Thus when people demanding documents go around saying they suspect he was born in Kenya, sane people dismiss them.
He isnt being transparent, is he?
No, and that's a legitimate campaign issue (though until 2012 it's a bit moot). Too bad all the birther nonsense distracted people from it when it might have made a difference.
So rather than focusing your attention on trashing “birthers”, why not take up the issue of his long list of hidden documents. As Rush is saying right now, we have a president who doesn’t want to tell us who he is.
Like a typical birther, you just ignore any evidence that knocks down your fantasy. Have fun.
You are the one that magically made me a "birther" by putting words in my mouth. Nothing I stated in my original post suggests that Obama is legit or not. I even stated "If he is ineligible...". I made it very obvious what I would want happen if a President is to have been proven to be ineligible for office. It could be Obama, or a right-wing conservative Republican President, it doesn't matter to me. I want the law upheld.
It's you who can't answer a very simple question? To whit -- What would you want to happen if it is proven that a President is ineligible for office? Don't mention what you think may happen, what party it hurts, etc. What would you want to happen?
How do you know where Mr. Obama was born? Are you with the so-called "non-partisan" FactCheck.org that is funded by the same group that employed admitted terrorist and communist Professor Bill Ayers and his friend Barack Obama? They claim to have "seen, touched and felt" his birth certificate, but even the Hawaiian bureaucrats won't say who Mr. Obama's father is, which hospital he was born in or why they feel he's a natural born citizen. Don't you find that odd?
Because the Hawaii Department of Public Health has officially confirmed it.
Good point. I'm spending way too much time on this.