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The Air Force Seeks the F-22's Low-Tech Alternative (bring back the Mustang?)
Time ^ | 8/27/2009 | Mark Thompson

Posted on 08/27/2009 7:17:59 AM PDT by markomalley

The Air Force spent years fighting to keep building the $350 million F-22 fighter, an airplane crammed with so much gee-whiz technology there's a law barring it from being sold to any other nation. But since no other nation is building such a plane to challenge it, the F-22 has become a costly investment with an uncertain payoff, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates just killed it. That sent an unmistakable message to the two new top Air Force officials Gates recently appointed, and now the service is seeking 100 slower, lower-flying and far cheaper airplanes — most likely prop-driven — that it can use to kill insurgents today and use to train local pilots — such as Afghans or Iraqis — tomorrow.

The list of requirements for what the Air Force is calling its Light Attack Armed Reconnaissance plane is fairly basic, and harkens back to the Vietnam-era A-1 Skyraider. It must be capable of flying 900-mile missions at up to 200 miles per hour (compared with up to 1500 mph for the F-22), including at night and poor weather. It will carry guns and rockets, along with a pair of 500-pound bombs, according to an Air Force solicitation issued last month. It will have to fly to and from dirt airfields where the only ground support is fuel. The its two pilots will have warning systems for enemy radars and missiles, an armored cockpit and self-sealing fuel tanks — and ejection seats if those protections fail. It should convert from an attack plane to a trainer by simply removing those weapons.

(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: aerospace; f22; gates; usaf
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To: Dumpster Baby

Radar profile looks pretty high.


41 posted on 08/27/2009 7:45:45 AM PDT by ROTB (Love your enemies, in the name and faith of Christ.)
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To: taxcontrol

A-10s fly over Lake of the Ozarks from the AFB just north of us nearly every day.


42 posted on 08/27/2009 7:46:08 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: markomalley

Sounds like the Il-2 Sturmovik or the tank-busting version of the JU-87 Stuka. Not sure that this kind of aircraft is going to survive with radar-guided guns and MANPADS.

I guess it’s “Back to the Future” at Gates’ Pentagon.


43 posted on 08/27/2009 7:46:38 AM PDT by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: faucetman
Exactly, Bi-planes would be cheaper

I imagine they could build a decent biplane for about ... oh ... $200M each.

44 posted on 08/27/2009 7:47:54 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Play the Race Card -- lose the game.)
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To: Don Corleone

you just put a smile on my face!!!!!!!!


45 posted on 08/27/2009 7:47:58 AM PDT by joe fonebone (When you ask God for help, sometimes he sends the Marines.)
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To: Dumpster Baby

On point! We need the Raptor; the cost of NOT having enough is far, far greater that its total outlay.


46 posted on 08/27/2009 7:48:08 AM PDT by Loud Mime (barastikas = Obama's logos)
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To: Lx; All
The two contenders mentioned -

Hawker-Beechcraft T-6

Super Tucano

Very similar looking....

47 posted on 08/27/2009 7:48:28 AM PDT by az_gila (AZ - need less democrats - one Governor down... more to go.)
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To: markomalley

A modified crop duster.


48 posted on 08/27/2009 7:49:56 AM PDT by RobinOfKingston (Democrats, the party of evil. Republicans, the party of stupid.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

When I was an Army Infantry Sergent in Germany in the 80’s, one flew 100+ feet over our position. It came up from behind us and flew directly over my track. Never heard a thing till is was already flying past us. Damn scary to know that you would have been dead and never even see it coming.


49 posted on 08/27/2009 7:49:56 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: GonzoGOP
WW2 fighters showed up on radar just fine. Their frames might not be metal, but their engines were. See my post #39 for a better solution.

Once the F-22 and such have eliminated air threats, we can hit the ground with next-generation UAVs. You can put guns and rockets on them too, besides missiles and bombs.

50 posted on 08/27/2009 7:50:01 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

oh c’mon.....i do not recommend pulling the prints from 1950 and building it..there are some excellent propeller driven attack planes out there, design and build would be inexpensive compared to 4th or 5th generation aircraft...the platform is a starting point..


51 posted on 08/27/2009 7:50:13 AM PDT by joe fonebone (When you ask God for help, sometimes he sends the Marines.)
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To: Regulator

The arsenal of democracy has been torn down, dismantled, crated up, shipped out, retired and outsourced.

If telling that truth makes me an evil protectionist, so be it. (Personally I prefer the term “Self preservationist”)


52 posted on 08/27/2009 7:50:39 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: Little Ray
We need NCO pilots and something equivalent to the A-1 Skyraider for COIN air support. Another aircraft that would be perfect would be a buffed-up OV-10 Bronco.

Whatever they come-up with should probably be operated by the Army. It would be a nice complement to the AH-64. If the USAF gets a hold of it, they'll want to do deeper interdiction missions, put some radar in it, and before you know it you won't be able to afford it.

53 posted on 08/27/2009 7:51:11 AM PDT by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: Loud Mime
We certainly do need the Raptor ... but not for CAS and counter-insurgency.

A1 is a great example of 1950s technology answer to the CAS/CI problem.

A10 has become a great example of 1970s airframe augmented by 1990s avionics answer to the same problem.

I'd like to think we've learned a few things since then, so that A-next will make both of them look wimpy.

Trouble is we currently have an anti-American poltroon in the White House.

54 posted on 08/27/2009 7:53:57 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: GonzoGOP

55 posted on 08/27/2009 7:54:15 AM PDT by jaydubya2
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To: joe fonebone
i do not recommend pulling the prints from 1950

Maybe we're on the same page, then ...

56 posted on 08/27/2009 7:56:00 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: taxcontrol
A-10s fly over in pairs, usually two pairs within seconds of each other. I'm told they line up and “destroy” one of the bridges over the lake...
57 posted on 08/27/2009 7:56:12 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: PapaBear3625
Actually the Mosquito had a very low signature due to being made out of plywood. And they weren't trying to lower the signature, it was just an accident. Now use carbon fiber for the props instead of metal and bury the engines in the wings and you have an aircraft that while not invisible is hard to see. Tack on a GAU-8 in place of the internal bomb bay and four 20mm and you have a Stealth Hog.
58 posted on 08/27/2009 7:56:22 AM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world, and they are all out to get me.)
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To: markomalley
The Obama Fighter:
59 posted on 08/27/2009 7:58:13 AM PDT by sticker
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To: Apercu
News flash -in an effort to cut Defense spending, Obama announced Chariots to replace M-1A1 Abrams Battle Tanks.

Don't be silly, Bozo knows we need tanks not Chariots so he is going to have GM tool up for the M4. It won WWII didn't it?/SAR

60 posted on 08/27/2009 7:58:45 AM PDT by calex59
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