Posted on 08/28/2009 11:28:07 PM PDT by kellynla
“A quiet and private Mass would have been acceptable and correct ... you cannot excuse your support through your own participation.”
There would never have been a small and quiet private Mass for the last remaining son of the Kennedy clan. The Catholic Church had to deal with the public mass that would inevitably be held. Also, one doesn’t know what Teddy repented of on his deathbed making such a Mass accceptable to be held.
I feel sorry for the position the Church has been placed in. Do you really think, considering all of the contributions to the Church throughout the years the whole Kennedy clan has made to the Church, as well as all of the sincerely believing members of the Kennedy clan that exist, that the Church would turn its back on the last remaining Kennedy son? You have to be realistic here. The Kennedy’s made the Catholic Church acceptable at a time when it wasn’t politically, at least as to being a President of the U.S. was concerned. It brought the Catholic Church into the mainstream in a primarily, at that time, Protestant country. All Catholics at the time understood this, and most still do.
The Kennedy clan also lived up to that part of the Catholic Church’s mission of helping the poorest in society, and the social causes aspect of the Church. So it was a split bag that came along with the Kennedy family in their view of Catholicism. Plus, the Kennedy’s never practiced that which they were willing to allow to others as a choice, namely the non-birthing of children. That whole family has propagated like rabbits. No abortions in their own families. The Kennedy clan, being very very Irish, also had that whole immigrant underdog mentaility, and scrapping and fighting their way to the top of the heap from the very bottom, by hook or by crook. The pugnacious part of the Irish personality.
So, from my viewpoint, the Catholic Church is dealing as best it can with the hand it was dealt here, and make of it what you will. But I wouldn’t be quite so vicious in your condemnation of the Church here. This is one day in the life of a Church that has existed from the beginning of Christianity itself, today is but a miniscule sliver in the midst of time. What did you really think the Church was going to do here, start up a big controversy of a political nature? That’s not what happens at funerals, especially at an Irish Catholic wake for the last remaining son of Camelot.
I wouldn’t get so bent out of shape about this. Be glad you are a member of a Church that has never changed its policy toward abortion, the practice of homosexuality (even though in the U.S. it let the Church get polluted by too many of them; thank goodness Pope BXVI is purging the Church of them), the belief in marriage as a sacrament, etc. that so many other supposedly Christian churches have dumped on as Christian beliefs. The Catholic Church has its faults, but in the scheme of things, it’s a good Church to be a member of. Admire its good qualities, and work to change the bad ones from within. It’s an exceptional Church with huge history and tradition, the original Christian Church. Savor that.
You might like this.
Kennedy’s Funeral Further Damages the Church’s Credibility
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2327262/posts
Wouldn’t the fact that Kennedy repented on his death bed be something the Church would want people to know?
I mean, imagine if Ted Kennedy repented of all the years of his support for abortion? Wouldn’t we hear even some whisper of that?
All that having been said, having watched my sister - in - law die of brain cancer, she was not able to communicate at all for more than a few weeks before her death occurred.
You got it!
They don't call it 'the seal of the confessional' for nothing.
Two words: you rock. Yes, to all you said. V’s wife.
In the Roman Catholic Church, we worship God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, not the three stooges known as the brothers Kennedy. Each in his own way was a rank disgrace to the Church, to our nation and to the Irish. Don't drink the soup of the Kennedy Klan propaganda. Contributions? What contributions? Chappaquiddick? "In Robert Bork's America, women will die from back alley abortions!"? Babykiller extraordinaire? Darling of Naral and Planned barrenhood? Antiwar antiAmerican scum? Treasonous SOB running to advise Yuri Andropov on how to combat Ronaldus Maximus on public image in the Cold War? Betrayer of troops in the field in every war of his lifetime? Sincerely believing Catholic members of Klan Kennedy??? Name three alive today. Klan Kennedy was descended from two Irish who arrived in about 1850 during the Potato Famine. The Modern generation of Klan Kennedy have been disgracing those ancestors all their lives, and have been Castle Irish (the traitorous kind to their own) who long since drank the soup of the enemies of the Irish.
Unlike many here, I have absolutely no problem with the Kennedys voting for programs that actually provided for the material well-being of the poorest of God's children or to protect the rights of racial minorities. Those actions dp not sanitize the damage that family has done to Catholicism in this country by their every scheme and public moral debacle of the last five or six decades to make respectable and "Catholic" public defiance of the right to life, moral conservatism, the vows of marriage, the definition of marriage. They are Lucifer's patron saints of cafeteria "Catholicism."
If, as should have been the case, Teddy had been formally excommunicated by Richard Cardinal Cushing or by Humberto Cardinal Madeiros or by Bernard Cardinal Law or by Sean Cardinal O'Malley, this fiasco would never have occurred. Comrade Obama speaking from the pulpit in a Roman Catholic Church??? Giving some pagan eulogy about Teddy being a great senator??? A Catholic Church awash in apostates, heretics and antiChrist wannabes falling all over themselves in their tribute to the Hyannisport babykiller???
The Kennedy Klan never practiced WHAT??? Birth control? Abortion? I may not be able to prove that they DID these things any more than you can prove that they did not but let's not assume the best against all evidence. Silence will suffice.
The Kennedys made Catholicism respectable??? What??? I don't really care what Hieronymous Q. Snuffington thinks or thought of Catholicism. We don't need his sufferance or that of Muffy of the Junior League or Chatsworth of the polo club or Skipper down at the yacht basin. Ours is the one true Church founded and guaranteed by Jesus Christ Himself and we have no need of Castle Irish trash like the Kennedys whoring after secular respectability at the expense of dogma and the Teaching Magisterium. They "brought the Catholic Church into the mainstream in a primarily, at that time, Protestant country." You are not talking about all Protestants but only the lamestream old, dying denominations with no spines, no guts and no determination, the ones that have fallen from morality, one by one and wallow in nothing but a half vast Marxist "social gospel." We are not talking Wisconsin or Missouri Synod Lutherans, Westminster Confession Presbyterians, Evangelicals, Pentecostals and others willing (with some imperfections of dogma) to fight for the Scriptures of Our Lord, whose grudging respect on abortion, marriage and similar issues is more worth having but mainline folks without a religious bone in their bodies or religious brain cell in their heads, aliens to the actual Christian Faith. The Kennedys whored after respectability in those alien precincts and you call that "respectability."
My Irish grandmother got off the boat from Cork in Southie in 1895 when she was a twelve-year old. Trust me: You don't have a clue about "the pugnacious part of the Irish personality" nor did the Hyannisport whale nor did he scrap is way up from the bottom. His father graduated Harvard in the WW-I era, became the bootlegger of choice for his classmates, parlayed the rum-running money into Hollywood and political influence, became Ambassador to England when Teddy was pre-kindergarten, etc. Mother Rosie was the daughter of John "Honey" Fitzgerald, disgraceful in his own right but NEVER poor. The brothers Kennedy were the Irish version of Sen. Jay Rockefeller struggling to the top despite the disadvantages of his birth. Puhleeeze!
Your last and ONLY your last paragraph makes sense.
Note that I have not mentioned the usual stuff about the social life and personal victims of Jon, Bobby! or Ted. Sean Cardinal O'Malley had the authority, as ordinary of the Boston Archdiocese to ban any funeral whatsoever in any Catholic Church in his archdiocese. So let's not pretend that he somehow lacked the authority. When Obama desecrated Notre Shame, Bishop John D'Arcy of Fort Wayne-South Bend refused to show up and made no secret of his absolute disapproval. Spineless Cardinal O'Malley not only allowed this fiasco, he participated in it.
I feel the same .. I was sickened by it and
wrote a longer, more specifically detailed
letter than yours, with a copy to the Vatican.
It was awful to witness this travesty, and
Cardinal O’Malley sullied his authority of
official prominence in the Church by his
visible presence and participation.
_____
You wrote: "Sean Cardinal O'Malley had the authority, as ordinary of the Boston Archdiocese to ban any funeral whatsoever in any Catholic Church in his archdiocese. So let's not pretend that he somehow lacked the authority."
"Spineless Cardinal O'Malley not only allowed this fiasco, he participated in it."
_____
I didn't watch a minute of it, but I have read countless reports and have been ensnared by rehashed news reports while channel surfing. Will the coverage ever end? *sigh* He was a senator for crying out loud! One, out of one hundred others. Is the longest serving senator Byrd expecting a similar spectacle? (Given his early days in the KKK, thank God he's not RC). Has any other senator been afforded such funeral fanfare coverage?
One more question: if we are to believe the reports that claim O'Malley refused the Kennedy's the use of the cathedral, then couldn't he have told the Kennedy's to bar the TV cameras inside the church where Obama and Kennedy's granchildren made political appeals and speeches?
The Kennedy's got their political spectacle at the expense of the Church, thanks to the complicit Boston archdiocese. It's too hard to believe they wanted anything else.
It seems to me that during his lifetime, the senator thought more about his democrat party's positions on abortion than he did about the Church's teachings.
Thank you for all of your paragraphs and for pinging me. You have a marvelous mind and the ability to clearly express it! :)
Elizabeth
From all reports, he was given Last Rites. So, I think it safe to assume that he made it to Purgatory. Now, as to when he will ever get out of there....
BlackElk, You’re going to need a strong stomach to get through this one. NOT one word about abortion. Only his opposition to the death penalty!!!!!
The following are excerpts from the letter as read by Cardinal Theodore McCarrick at Kennedy’s private burial service Saturday in Arlington National Cemetery:
“Most Holy Father, I asked President Obama to personally hand-deliver this letter to you. As a man of deep faith himself, he understands how important my Catholic faith is to me, and I am so deeply grateful to him. I hope this letter finds you in good health.
“I pray that you have all of God’s blessings as you lead our Church and inspire our world during these challenging times. I am writing with deep humility to ask that you pray for me as my own health declines. I was diagnosed with brain cancer more than a year ago, and although I continue treatment the disease is taking its toll on me. I am 77 years old, and preparing for the next passage of life.
“I have been blessed to be part of a wonderful family. Both of my parents, particularly my mother, kept our Catholic faith at the center of our lives. That gift of faith has sustained and nurtured, and provided solace to me in the darkest hours.
“I know that I have been an imperfect human being, but with the help of my faith I have tried to right my path. I want you to know Your Holiness that in my nearly 50 years of elective office, I have done my best to champion the rights of the poor and open doors of economic opportunity. I have worked to welcome the immigrant, to fight discrimination, and expand access to health care and education. I have opposed the death penalty, and fought to end war. Those are the issues that have motivated me and been the focus of my work as a United States Senator.
“I also want you to know that even though I am ill, I am committed to do everything I can to achieve access to health care for everyone in my country. This has been the political cause of my life. I believe in a conscience protection for Catholics in the health field, and I’ll continue to advocate for it as my colleagues in the Senate and I work to develop an overall national health policy that guarantees health care for everyone.
“I have always tried to be a faithful Catholic Your Holiness. And though I have fallen short through human failings, I have never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings of my faith. I continue to pray for God’s blessings on you and on our Church, and would be most thankful for your prayers for me.”
Two weeks later, Kennedy received a response from the Vatican. McCarrick read the response in part, as follows:
“The Holy Father has read the letter which you entrusted to President Obama, who kindly presented it to him during their recent meeting. He was saddened to know of your illness, and asked me to assure you of his concern and his spiritual closeness. He is particularly grateful for your promise of prayers for him, for the needs of our universal church.
“His Holiness prays that in the days ahead, you may be sustained in faith and hope, and granted the precious grace of joyful surrender to the will of God, our merciful father. He invokes upon you the consolation and peace promised by the risen savior to all who share in his sufferings, and trust in his promise of eternal life.
“Commending you and the members of your family to the loving intervention of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Holy Father cordially imparts his apostolic blessing as a pledge of wisdom, comfort, and strength in the Lord.”
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/29/kennedy.pope.letter/index.html
I believe in a conscience protection for Catholics in the health field,
~~~~~
OMG ..such hypocrisy .. how could he even mention
the conscience clause when he promoted abortion.
And BHO has apparently removed this clause that
Pres. Bush initiated, and will require Catholic
doctors and hospitals to perform abortions, if
that hospital gets any federal funds.
That letter was the most sickening pandering I
could ever imagine. He totally purposely left
out what he knew was the most important issue
for the Pope - life and protection of the unborn.
I’m assuming the family wanted the public to
hear the Pope’s letter so we’d see he did get
a response to that pathetic letter and maybe
to soothe themselves.
God save us and be with the grieving family.
After reading that letter, I shall forever have zero respect for Edward M. Kennedy, no matter the number of good deeds I might read of his in the future. For me, this letter of deceit trumphs all.
I thought about pinging you, but I'm uncertain about the protocol. :)
Abortion is omitted. Couldn't have Kennedy state he was sorry for his pro-abortion activities, because that would fly in the face of his beloved democrat party, which he obviously held in higher regard than the Church.
Peace be with you, Starwise.
It’s a downright abomination .. was he
actually this delusional ?
As for pinging .. you ping anyone you
want ... ;)
Have you sent this to O’Malley? Or-— what? What shall we do now? I mean to live our our Baptismal vocation a prophets, and combat the sloth and acedia which (for me) ate the principal sins which flow from shame?
“My Irish grandmother got off the boat from Cork in Southie in 1895 when she was a twelve-year old. Trust me: You don’t have a clue about “the pugnacious part of the Irish personality”
LOL! You make my point. You are a perfect example of the pugnacious Irish personality. Your whole tome is pugnacious, and aggressive, and vituperative, and downright nasty towards your own religion. By the way, I too had an Irish grandmother, right off the boat. We have something in common. If you want to hate your own religion because it isn’t pure enough for you, feel free. Lots of Irish hate Catholicism for one reason or the other. I choose not to.
I think this Pope is great, and piece by piece he is changing the Church back to its original traditional stance, and I hope he lives long enough to accomplish his ends. There will be blips and burps along the way, but I’m rooting for him. I hate to inject such a cheery thought into a conversation with someone who obviously is more interested in axes to grind than anything else. What side of the bed did you get up on this morning?
“The Kennedy Klan never practiced WHAT??? Birth control? Abortion? I may not be able to prove that they DID these things any more than you can prove that they did not but let’s not assume the best against all evidence. Silence will suffice.”
P.S., I think the evidence is in the size of their families.
I love Catholicism. It is phonies like the Kennedys and their apologists that I despise. If and when any of them return to the Faith, I will reconsider and not one moment earlier.
I got up on the Cathooic side of the bed this and every other morning. If you cannot distinguish between Teddy and an actual Catholic, you are in over your head (something that has been known to happen on occasion among those who just cannot resist the sCamelot of it all.
Oh, and my grandmother spent many of her early years working for James Michael Curley who sent Honey Fitz packing from public life. She despised Honey Fitz and other Castle Irish scum who were Teddy's ancestors. And a good thing too!
Let us not confuse the Faith with its temporary diocesan administrators. Do you enthuse for Roger Cardinal McPhony of LA (weeping oceans of tears over Teddy's demise and B-XVI's rise) or do you "hate the Church?" False dichotomy.
Do you congratulate Bernard Cardinal Law on the spiffy job that he did in playing musical priests as his response to the, ummmm, late unpleasantness between many of his subordinate clergy (i.e. Slattery and the late Geoghegan) and the boys they raped or do you hate the Church? False dichotomy.
The fact that you had an Irish grandmother obviously did not insulate you from Kennedy disease any more than his Irish great grandmother protected Teddy from being a rank apostate. The trouble lies not with the Faith but with those who, like Teddy and his apparent admirers, are will =ing to redefine the Faith so that they can claim Kennedys to be part of it.
The likely next Kennedy to hold that Senate seat is Joseph (Bobby's spawn) who married Sheila Rauch (an Episcopalian) in a sacramental Catholic wedding but then wanted to turn her in for a later model (one of Joey's Congressional Office, ummm, secretaries). Sheila studied up on Canon Law and would not go quietly. Cardinal Law's toadies apparently had no problem granting Joey his requested annulment so he could marry his new main squeeze in a Catholic wedding and keep the myth of Kennedy Catholicism alive for future gulling of Catholic practitioners of Hyannisport mania. He will now have to explain how Catholic he is to continue his invalid relationship with wife #2 AFTER the Rota (Vatican Appellate Court as to matters marital) overturned the decision of the Hoston Marriage Tribunal and granted Sheila the requested decree ruling her marriage to Joey valid. I can't wait to hear his rationalizations when wife #1 goes on the attack and Joey and his defenders explain that, as a Kennedy, he can make it up as he goes along, stay with "wife" #2 and spit on the Vatican while playing make believe "Catholic."
I am certainly pugnacious, aggressive and maybe even vituperative. OTOH, I uphold the standards of the Catholic Faith as you do not. Hence you are in no position to claim I have been "downright nasty" toward Catholicism. Going after hypocrisy and evil in lefty AmChurch circles lay or clerical is being good to the Church and hard on her enemies.
If you slurp up the Kennedy Kool Aid, then you are no friend of the Catholicism they have undermined, whatever you may say. As Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said: You are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own "facts." When tradition is restored, it will be over the dead bodies of Klan Kennedy and their sycophants.
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