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Taliban targets descendants of Alexander the Great
telegraph.co.uk ^ | 21 Sep 2009 | Dean Nelson in New Delhi and Emal Khan in Peshawar

Posted on 09/21/2009 12:09:41 PM PDT by Nikas777

Taliban targets descendants of Alexander the Great

For centuries, the blond-haired, blue-eyed people of the Kalash tribes of North West Pakistan have lived a libertine lifestyle.

By Dean Nelson in New Delhi and Emal Khan in Peshawar

Published: 6:48PM BST 21 Sep 2009

Children of the Kalash tribe in Northern Pakistan Photo: EPA

The group, believed to be descendants of Alexander the Great's invading army, were shielded from conservative Islam by the steep slopes of their remote valleys.

While Sikhs, Hindus, and Christians were slowly driven out of Pakistan's North West Frontier Province by Muslim militants, the Kalash were free to drink their own distilled spirits and smoke cannabis.

But the militant maulanas of the Taliban have finally caught up with them and declared war on their culture and heritage by kidnapping their most devoted supporter.

Taliban commanders have taken Professor Athanasion Larounis, a Greek aid worker who has generated £2.5 million in donations to build schools, clinics, clean water projects and a museum.

They are now demanding £1.25 million and the release of three militant leaders in exchange for his safe return.

According to local police, it was Professor Larounis's dedication to preserving Kalasha culture that Taliban commanders in Nuristan, on the Afghan side of the border that made him a target.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; godsgravesglyphs; greeks; kalash; mhmmdnsm09212009
Islam is about to wipe out the last traces of the Greek colonists in Asia. The Buddhist statues that the Taliban destroyed date from the Greco-Bactrian empire.

Greece needs to evacuate these people like the Jews did for their Ethiopians brothers.

1 posted on 09/21/2009 12:09:41 PM PDT by Nikas777
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To: SunkenCiv

Remnant peoples ping


2 posted on 09/21/2009 12:11:41 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777
BBC - In the footsteps of Alexander (The Kalash)

In the footsteps of Alexander the Great:

In this award winning adventure Micheal Wood embarks on a 2000 mile journey in the foot steps of Alexander's triumphal march from Greece to India.

3 posted on 09/21/2009 12:13:46 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777

Stop Jihad Now!


4 posted on 09/21/2009 12:15:37 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Big Ears + Big Spending --> BigEarMarx, the man behind TOTUS)
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To: Nikas777
Micheal Moore's Freedom Fighters.

And remember, to liberals, the west is the bad culture. All other cultures are equal or better to include the taliban and islam.

5 posted on 09/21/2009 12:16:08 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Nikas777
If these are the descendants of Alexander, maybe they remember how to fight. Sounds like a problem with an air drop solution.
6 posted on 09/21/2009 12:17:38 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Nikas777
Greece needs to evacuate these people like the Jews did for their Ethiopians brothers.

Why? There's nothing even remotely Greek about these people.

Kalash- Genetic Origins
7 posted on 09/21/2009 12:25:45 PM PDT by Rodebrecht (Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.)
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To: Nikas777
The Buddhist statues that the Taliban destroyed date from the Greco-Bactrian empire.

Nope. They were built by the Kushan Empire in 500 to 550 AD, most of a thousand years after the Greco-Bactrian Empire disappeared.

While its neat to think these people are descended from Greeks, and it is possible, over the centuries there have been many Aryan tribes in this area. When a tribe was defeated, it always fled into the mountains, if it could. Throughout the mountains of Asia there are valleys with remnants of otherwise disappeared ethnic groups and cultures.

8 posted on 09/21/2009 12:28:20 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Rodebrecht
From your link: "...Greek y-chromosome admixture could be as high as 20% to 40%..."
9 posted on 09/21/2009 12:32:04 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777

0bama will be retained as their attorney. Move along nothing to see here.


10 posted on 09/21/2009 12:32:04 PM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Obama, the first ever 3 in a half year, lame duck TOTUS)
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To: Nikas777

Even if there is a tiny bit of genetic similarity, which is doubtful, did you read anything about these peoples’ customs and religion? It’s completely incompatible with modern Greek society and is more fitting in Vedic India.


11 posted on 09/21/2009 12:35:31 PM PDT by Rodebrecht (Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.)
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To: Sherman Logan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushan_Empire

The earliest documented ruler, and the first one to proclaim himself as a Kushan ruler was Heraios. He calls himself a “Tyrant” on his coins, and also exhibits skull deformation. He may have been an ally of the Greeks, and he shared the same style of coinage. Heraios may have been the father of the first Kushan emperor Kujula Kadphises.

The Kushans adopted elements of the Hellenistic culture of Bactria. They adopted the Greek alphabet (often corrupted) to suit their own language (with the additional development of the letter Þ “sh”, as in “Kushan”) and soon began minting coinage on the Greek model. On their coins they used Greek language legends combined with Pali legends (in the Kharoshthi script), until the first few years of the reign of Kanishka. After that date, they used Kushan language legends (in an adapted Greek script), combined with legends in Greek (Greek script) and legends in Pali (Kharoshthi script).....they absorbed the strong remnants of the Greek Culture of the Hellenistic Kingdoms, becoming at least partly Hellenised.


PS: “Kushan” = “Kalash” ? (The group that retained the old Vedic polytheist religion while the rest of the tribe when Buddhist?


12 posted on 09/21/2009 12:37:38 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Rodebrecht
I think it is more the that these people were Hellenized locals, like the Nabataeans who built Petra.

When the Hellenistic kingdoms were swept away these must have been the remnants. Not Greeks per DNA but per culture.

13 posted on 09/21/2009 12:40:12 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777
Greece needs to evacuate these people like the Jews did for their Ethiopians brothers.

Ship them better weapons instead.

14 posted on 09/21/2009 12:42:05 PM PDT by SampleMan (Socialism enslaves you & kills your soul.)
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To: Rodebrecht
It’s completely incompatible with modern Greek society and is more fitting in Vedic India.

Excellent point.

I just want to save these people and India is the best choice.

15 posted on 09/21/2009 12:43:06 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: SampleMan

There are only 3,000 of them left.


16 posted on 09/21/2009 12:43:50 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777

Hey it is the culture of the Islamists in Afghanistan to wipe out other cultures, have some compassion for them


17 posted on 09/21/2009 12:48:29 PM PDT by GraceG
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To: Nikas777
There are only 3,000 of them left.

Then send them really good weapons.

18 posted on 09/21/2009 12:50:08 PM PDT by SampleMan (Socialism enslaves you & kills your soul.)
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To: Nikas777
The group that retained the old Vedic polytheist religion while the rest of the tribe when Buddhist?

Unlikely. The Kushans were invaders from Central Asia, not Aryan Hindus or Vedists. Genetically they were a lot closer to the Huns or Mongols. They probably had a similar rudimentary shamanistic religion prior to adopting Buddhism. The Mongols themselves later mostly became Buddhists, except in the west where they went Muslim.

19 posted on 09/21/2009 12:51:22 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Sherman Logan
I apologize for using wikipedia as a source but from my readings this account is how I remember the information. They were an Indo-European people - in terms of language at least. Is the deformed head of the Kuhans mentioned the Central Asian practice of forehead elongation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushan_Empire Chinese sources describe the Guishuang (Ch: 貴霜), i.e. the "Kushans", as one of the five aristocratic tribes of the Yuezhi, also spelled Yueh-chi,[7] (Ch: 月氏), a loose confederation of supposedly Indo-European peoples.

20 posted on 09/21/2009 1:00:05 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Sherman Logan
PS: When I wrote "Greek" I really meant "Hellenistic" - the adoption of Greek culture, language and civilization amongst non Greek people.

The Kushans for example minted their coins in Greek and used Greek as the language of court for record purposes at least.

21 posted on 09/21/2009 1:04:12 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777

When Alexander reached Afghanistan, he met Greek exiles who had fled Greece with the Persians in 479 BCE. Since they were considered traitors, they were exterminated.


22 posted on 09/21/2009 1:37:35 PM PDT by Eternal_Bear (`)
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To: Nikas777

I see there are several opinions about the Kushan “racial” background. The consensus seems to be that they were Indo-European. With the exception of the Huns it seems the “Mongol” type peoples didn’t move westward till somewhat later.


23 posted on 09/21/2009 1:48:58 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Nikas777
Greece needs to evacuate these people like the Jews did for their Ethiopians brothers.

Better if the Greeks would have their top special forces soldiers come up with a plan and make the Taliban pay dearly for this action. Make it so expensive and so painful that the terrorist thugs will never again target someone of Greek ancestry. The Taliban will go for a safer target, like Americans, since obama is a sissy and a pushover who wants the Taliban to win, and these people will be safe.

24 posted on 09/21/2009 1:50:05 PM PDT by TurtleUp ("Socialist mandates are not a tax"??? Obama, YOU LIE!)
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To: Nikas777

Interestingly the Kalash live right next to Nuristan. This area was known as Kafiristan till the 1890s. It was the last major area of Afghanistan inhabited by “pagans.” It’s the area where Kipling set “The Man Who Would Be King.”

During the 1890s it was subjected to good old-fashioned jihadi forced coversion and is now 100% Muslim.


25 posted on 09/21/2009 1:52:17 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Sherman Logan
And by Greek I meant "Hellenized" rather than the DNA connection. Kushans were not Greek but they changed their culture to be Hellenized and I could see them being called "Greeks" by those who did not adopt the culture.

Just like Jews who became Hellenized were called "Greeks" by non Hellenized Jews during the aftermath of Alexander's empire.

26 posted on 09/21/2009 1:53:42 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Sherman Logan

That is what I mean by the last remnants of the old world are gone now.


27 posted on 09/21/2009 1:56:44 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Sherman Logan

The possibility remains that Greek missionaries may have spread Buddhism to China. The First Chinese explorer reached Bactria just after the Greek Kingdom fell. The road to the East was open.


28 posted on 09/21/2009 1:59:05 PM PDT by Eternal_Bear (`)
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To: Nikas777

Reminds me of the Kippling story — THE MAN WHO WOULD BE KING.


29 posted on 09/21/2009 2:09:27 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: Nikas777

Imperialist racist pig fornicators these Taliban be.

can you say ethnic cleansing??

NO! of course not...muslims dont ethnic cleanse, they purify islam..there is a difference.


30 posted on 09/21/2009 2:16:35 PM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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black pagans of hindu kush
Google

31 posted on 09/21/2009 3:08:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Nikas777; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ..

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
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Thanks Nikas777.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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32 posted on 09/21/2009 3:08:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Eternal_Bear

Actually, one of the sources (written centuries after Alexander, and its author Curtius was a gossip monger) contained the probably made-up story about the descendants of Anatolian Greeks exiled by the Persians to Central Asia. Their old home was Didyma, For no reason whatsoever, Alexander is said to have massacred all them the day after they found this out-of-place Greek city. There’s not any such ruin known in Central Asia, the reliable sources don’t mention this “event” at all, and there’s not even any evidence that the Persians exiled anyone from Didyma after they smashed and burned everything.


33 posted on 09/21/2009 3:18:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Rodebrecht; blam
Thanks Rodebrecht. Blam from R's Wiki-wacky-pedia link:
Some in the academic community have speculated that the Kalash might be from ancient Middle Eastern populations, an indigenous population from South Asia, or members of Alexander the Great's army. Though often overstated, instances of blond hair or light eyes are not uncommon. In a 2005 study of ASPM gene variants, Mekel-Bobrov et al. found that the Kalash people of Pakistan have among the highest rate of the newly-evolved ASPM haplogroup D, at 60% occurrence of the approximately 6,000-year-old allele. The Kalash also have been shown to exhibit the exceedingly rare 19 allele value at autosomal marker D9S1120 at a frequency higher than the majority of other world populations which do have it... Another study with Qasim Ayub, and S. Qasim Mehdi, and led by Quintana-Murci claims that "the western Eurasian presence in the Kalash population reaches a frequency of 100%, the most prevalent [mtDNA] haplogroup being U4, (pre-HV)1, U2e, and J2," and that they show "no detectable East or South Asian lineages... a western Eurasian origin for this population is likely, in view of their maternal lineages, which can ultimately be traced back to the Middle East". The estimates by Qamar et al. of Greek admixture has been dismissed by Toomas Kivisild et al. (2003)... A genetic study published in the American Journal of Human Genetics by Sengupta et al. (2006), found the Kalash to comprise high frequencies of Haplogroup L3 (25%), R1a (20%), H1* (20%), Haplogroup G2a (20%), R* (5%), J2a and J2b2 at (5%) each[33]. Haplogroup L originates from prehistoric South Asia. A study by Rosenberg et al. (2006) employing genetic testing among the Kalash population concluded that they are, in fact, a distinct (and perhaps aboriginal) population with only minor contributions from outside peoples. In one cluster analysis with (K = 7), the Kalash formed one cluster, the others being Africans, Europeans/Middle Easterners/South Asians, East Asians, Melanesians, and Native Americans.

34 posted on 09/21/2009 3:24:23 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Eternal_Bear; SunkenCiv; All

Did Alexander perhaps exterminate the men, but leave the women alive to make his troops happy, thus maintaining the blood lines?


35 posted on 09/21/2009 7:22:30 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: SunkenCiv
We know that the Persians transported back colloborators. It is highly doubtful that they would resettle them in Mediterranean littoral as that would be too sensitive of an area subject to constant revolt and possible Greek troublemaking. The best lands were already taken in Mesopotamia. Having them resettled in Persia proper would be an embarrassment and a reminder of the Great King's failure. Afghanistan would be a logical choice.

Even the Successors like Antigonos One Eyed would send troublesome elements like the too independent Silver Shields Phalanx unit there too get killed off. Afghanistan was a convenient dumping ground for the unwanted.

36 posted on 09/21/2009 7:58:47 PM PDT by Eternal_Bear (`)
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To: gleeaikin

Alexander left colonies in Afghanistan. Greeks culture persisted there for centuries.


37 posted on 09/21/2009 8:11:14 PM PDT by Eternal_Bear (`)
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To: gleeaikin

The story is just made up, it didn’t happen at all.


38 posted on 09/21/2009 8:44:58 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv; Rodebrecht; blam
We get side tracked by DNA.

I have always assumed that these people were called descendants of Alexander's army because they were locals who had become Hellenized. When Bactria was overrun by non Hellenized outsiders they would naturally have seen these natives as "Greeks" in the cultural sense of the word.

Kushans were a tribe of central asian nomads that over threw the Bactrian Greeks but in turn were Hellenized themselves. Kushan = Kalash?

Or maybe when the new order came in the Kalash were associated with the old order - the Greeks.

Sort of like if the invading Germanics identifying the Britons as "Romans".

39 posted on 09/23/2009 8:31:53 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777
They also could be the cousins of the Tocharians. Who knows how many clans and families stopped in a valley to settle as the main group migrated East.
40 posted on 09/23/2009 2:15:02 PM PDT by fatez ("If you're going through Hell, keep going." Winston Churchill)
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To: fatez
The Kushans who took over from the Greeks but became Hellenized were thought to be Tocharians if I remember correctly.

It is clear they are what I call a remnant people.

41 posted on 09/23/2009 2:24:23 PM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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black pagans hindu kush
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black pagans hindu kush site:freerepublic.com
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42 posted on 06/24/2012 5:29:44 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Nikas777

Do you need binoculars? they look white? and the article said “most have blue eyes and blonde hair” lol in order to use the word MOST it has to be factual and it’s not, most actually have dark brown features, My case study partners did live interviews and filming of these people and look nothing like your biased pictures, seriously the article is all opinions and author has no background in the field and presenting info like he is a expert. I studied Asian anthropology and these people have no foreign DNA and are not outsiders, their not even Caucasian, their Mongloid, ALL south Asian mountain people were historically considered Mongloid. Latinos are also Mongloid, that’s why these people resemble them. Exposure to sun and malnourishment brings out lighter hair that is not genetics, living in high mountain ranges lowers your RBCs and gives you a rosy glow, also not genetics, and there are only two or three blue eyed ones that have been circling the internet for YEARS. ALso there are blogs that showed some pictures of being service men and women or tourist dressed in their clothing and same pictures have multiple versions on the internet with different eye color but some person. Same amount of rare individuals can be found ANYWHERE, there are no GREEKS and never were, Nuristans were killed during numerous war scenes in that region, and outside afghans flooded the region to control land and majority of nuristan are not natives


43 posted on 10/01/2013 4:27:24 PM PDT by Kristenxlowry
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