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Maya has no COLB & Mr. & Mrs. Obama Sr. were married?
Vanity | 10-3-2009 | Frantzie

Posted on 10/02/2009 9:58:24 PM PDT by Frantzie

http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/doh-reverses-course-releases-index-data-for-president-obama-stanley-ann-and-barack-sr-no-records-for-maya-exist/#comments

Looks like Maya has no COLB according to Leo's record search and the parents were married.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; fail; leodonofrio; missinglink; muslim; obama; vanity
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Leo's comments:

[ed. no. it's not open. they were married. their marriage index data is on file with the DoH... myth conclusively busted.]

[ed. I dont know about Maya's citizenship. all I know is that she has no COLB from Hawaii. that myth is busted.]

1 posted on 10/02/2009 9:58:24 PM PDT by Frantzie
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To: Frantzie

Leo is doing alot of speculating, s usual.


2 posted on 10/02/2009 10:01:52 PM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: pissant

Sounds like Leo needs some boots on the ground in HI. All these former JAG attorneys and retired attorneys out there. Seems like they are mostly AWOL.


3 posted on 10/02/2009 10:05:04 PM PDT by Frantzie (Do we want ACORN running America's healthcare?)
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To: Frantzie

Maya was born in Indonesia, so why would anyone expect her to have a birth certificate from Hawaii?


4 posted on 10/02/2009 10:05:18 PM PDT by LibFreeOrDie (Obama promised a gold mine, but will give us the shaft.)
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To: pissant

Leo is in this to “bust myths” not to get real answers. He’s targeting to discredit us - not Obama’s natural born citizenship status and documentation. He has not seen any of the documents he’s claiming to know exist by the cryptic answers he’s getting from DOH. Odd.

I think he has a one track mind. He thinks that these questions about Obama’s birth place are a waste of time because Obama is not a NBC as his father was not American. He believes the COLB is a birth certificate and is good enough to prove he was born in the US and we should be paying attention to his argument about the NBC issue. He’s irritated with Orly for going to court as she has done.


5 posted on 10/02/2009 10:13:51 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: LibFreeOrDie

Because back when the B/C story was 1st breaking, last year and the Won’s COLB was being debunked, there was some speculation that Maya’s COLB was used as the template for his.
Also that added to the outrage that “anyone”, citizen or not could get a COLB in Hawaii.


6 posted on 10/02/2009 10:13:51 PM PDT by ozark hilljilly (Ignore us at your peril.)
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To: Frantzie

If 0bama Sr. and Ann Dunham were married, I think there may be some chance for challenging his eligibility on the ground that the father was not a US citizen. If they were not married, it’s more likely that he had to follow the mother’s. Am I wrong?


7 posted on 10/02/2009 10:16:54 PM PDT by paudio (Road to hell is paved by unintended consequences of good intentions)
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To: ozark hilljilly

........those sloppy seconds Soetoro’s~~~~


8 posted on 10/02/2009 10:17:04 PM PDT by MissDairyGoodnessVT ("I never knew there were Martians in my garden...)
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To: ozark hilljilly

How did Maya become an American citizen?


9 posted on 10/02/2009 10:18:42 PM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Everyone knows there's a difference between muslims & terrorists... no one knows what it is, though.)
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To: LibFreeOrDie
At some point in the past, claims were made that Maya did indeed have a Hawaiian COLB. It was the basis for speculation that the Obama's first COLB on Kos and Fight the Smears was actually a photo-shopped edition of Maya's COLB.

I'm not sure of the origin of that claim. At one point, I thought I read that Maya herself claimed she had a Hawaiian COLB, while claiming she wasn't born in Hawaii.

10 posted on 10/02/2009 10:20:40 PM PDT by justlurking (The only remedy for a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.)
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To: Ready4Freddy

Hell, I don’t think she is.


11 posted on 10/02/2009 10:23:16 PM PDT by ozark hilljilly (Ignore us at your peril.)
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To: justlurking

Yes, I don’t think it was a big “myth” that anyone is out looking for Maya’s COLB. She was not born in the US and neither was her brother, most likely.


12 posted on 10/02/2009 10:25:17 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: paudio

had to follow the mother’s what?


13 posted on 10/02/2009 10:25:32 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Ready4Freddy
How did Maya become an American citizen?

From the State Department's website: Documentation of U.S. Citizens Born Abroad


14 posted on 10/02/2009 10:27:25 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Drew68

I’m certainly familiar w/ FS-240, but simply being born abroad to a foreign father & American mother isn’t sufficient to convey American citizenship.


15 posted on 10/02/2009 10:35:59 PM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Everyone knows there's a difference between muslims & terrorists... no one knows what it is, though.)
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To: Ready4Freddy
I’m certainly familiar w/ FS-240, but simply being born abroad to a foreign father & American mother isn’t sufficient to convey American citizenship.

A few documents have to be submitted. Follow the link. It isn't a difficult process.

16 posted on 10/02/2009 10:39:34 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Ready4Freddy

How did Maya become an American citizen?.........

Since her mother is an American citizen she is one too. But had to file some naturalization paperwork at age 18 since she was not born in the USA. I have a low opinion of her. She is in outer space


17 posted on 10/02/2009 10:41:12 PM PDT by dennisw (Free Republic is an island in a sea of zombies)
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To: Frantzie

Here is a question I statement I made on Leo’s blog when has not been cleared:


President Obama is fighting the release of his birth documents for a reason. Some speculate it is because the long form certificate has no father listed or a father that is different than Obama, Sr.

You receiving unrequested “marriage” information for Stanley Ann is like saying you are receiving the data on his parents but you are not. You are receiving information about who his mom married; but the birth parental data has not been given to you.

I suspect it is the father issue that the DOH is trying to avoid releasing by side steping the issue and giving you data from a marriage certificate instead of the parents listed on Obama’s birth certificate. To make a determination on Obama’s natural born status, the parents listed on the birth certificate, not mom’s marriage certificate, is required.


18 posted on 10/02/2009 10:41:39 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Ready4Freddy

I’m certainly familiar w/ FS-240, but simply being born abroad to a foreign father & American mother isn’t sufficient to convey American citizenship.............

It is 99% sufficient but one must file naturalization forms at age 18. Then you are home free


19 posted on 10/02/2009 10:43:31 PM PDT by dennisw (Free Republic is an island in a sea of zombies)
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To: dennisw
Since her mother is an American citizen she is one too.

Not if the father is a foreign national. It actually depends on the residency history of the mother and the statutory requirements at that time (1970).

20 posted on 10/02/2009 10:45:23 PM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Everyone knows there's a difference between muslims & terrorists... no one knows what it is, though.)
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To: Ready4Freddy
Not if the father is a foreign national. It actually depends on the residency history of the mother and the statutory requirements at that time (1970).

Again, it's all there on the State Dept.'s website:

Since SAD was 27 when Maya was born in 1970, it appears Maya was eligible for U.S. citizenship at birth.

21 posted on 10/02/2009 10:54:48 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Ready4Freddy

Maya was not an automatic American citizen.
But she was 99% there at birth due to having an American mother and merely had to file for naturalization at age 18 and no one gets turned down for this

If Maya had been born on US soil she would have been a US citizen at birth just like offspring of illegal aliens are (UNFORTUNATELY)


22 posted on 10/02/2009 11:03:07 PM PDT by dennisw (Free Republic is an island in a sea of zombies)
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To: Drew68
Since SAD was 27 when Maya was born in 1970, it appears Maya was eligible for U.S. citizenship at birth.

In Maya's case, perhaps so, if SAD was resident in the US for the required time (how long did she live here before heading to Indonesia?). Her US residency alone at the time of bHussein0's birth, at least, was not sufficient to convey citizenship.

23 posted on 10/02/2009 11:04:54 PM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Everyone knows there's a difference between muslims & terrorists... no one knows what it is, though.)
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To: Vendome

The mother’s citizenship.


24 posted on 10/02/2009 11:09:21 PM PDT by paudio (Road to hell is paved by unintended consequences of good intentions)
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To: dennisw
But she was 99% there at birth due to having an American mother and merely had to file for naturalization at age 18 and no one gets turned down for this.

A common misconception, that US citizenship of one parent is in and of itself sufficient to convey citizenship to offspring. Young women who have married foreign nationals and moved to the husband's county have found out the hard way that there are further requirements.

There are more than a few children trapped in ME countries, as well as some European ones (notably Germany). State won't lift a finger to help the mothers gain custody of their kids because the kids are not US citizens.

25 posted on 10/02/2009 11:13:29 PM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Everyone knows there's a difference between muslims & terrorists... no one knows what it is, though.)
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To: dennisw

I meant to mention - if Maya’s mom met the residency requirements, it would not result in ‘naturalization’, but the conveyance of birthright citizenship.

One doesn’t have to wait until age 18 to perfect US citizenship in the situation we’re discussing, but sometimes the other country requires that the person be 18 to renounce citizenship (if required) of that country.


26 posted on 10/02/2009 11:26:40 PM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Everyone knows there's a difference between muslims & terrorists... no one knows what it is, though.)
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To: Drew68; Ready4Freddy
I've always thought that whether or not Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii, the real point is that supposing it were true that would be a technicality. In the sense that the purpose of the constitutional "natural born citizen" provision was to seek to limit the office of POTUS to patriotic Americans -a set of which Mr. Obama has apparently never been a member.
I’m certainly familiar w/ FS-240, but simply being born abroad to a foreign father & American mother isn’t sufficient to convey American citizenship.
A few documents have to be submitted. Follow the link. It isn't a difficult process.
I note that you are speaking in the present tense. Much of the discussion of Obama's citizenship at birth that I've seen relates to the requirements for birth citizenship under the laws existing on the date of Obama's birth. Which were not the same as those applicable to babies born to American citizens abroad today.

27 posted on 10/02/2009 11:29:30 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (SPENDING without representation is tyranny. To represent us you have to READ THE BILLS.)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
I note that you are speaking in the present tense. Much of the discussion of Obama's citizenship at birth that I've seen relates to the requirements for birth citizenship under the laws existing on the date of Obama's [or anyone's]birth.

Both Drew68 & I are relating the applicable requirements to the time in question (1970 for Maya), cIs. If there's any difference in our approaches, it's that Drew refers to the State Dept site and my source is the USC itself. The USC spells out the requirements at various points in time. In immigration law the important cutoffs are 11/14/86, 12/24/52, and various 'befores'.

I think the '52 requirements (10/5 after 14) were barely adequate, and the '86 revison (5/2) is ridiculously lax.

The 'befores' are interesting - most differentiated between the gender of the US citizen parent; a US citizen father passing his citizenship essentially automatically, whereas a US citizen mother abroad had far more stringent hoops to jump through.

28 posted on 10/02/2009 11:52:06 PM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Everyone knows there's a difference between muslims & terrorists... no one knows what it is, though.)
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To: pissant
Sounds to me as if Leo is trying to minimize speculation. He hasn't wavered from his assumption that Obama was born in Hawaii. His careful analysis of Hawaiian law has caused movement, and generated new information.

Now I could speculate, and will, wondering at the response by Fukino providing the fact that Stanley Ann and Barack were bride and groom, but not asserting that they were parents.

29 posted on 10/03/2009 12:00:48 AM PDT by Spaulding
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To: LibFreeOrDie
" Maya was born in Indonesia, so why would anyone expect her to have a birth certificate from Hawaii? "

This should explain it, back then, Hawaii left some wiggle room for shenanigans to happen for people who had children in another country to bring them here in Hawaii and proclaim they were born in Hawaii.

Read this 2 or 3 times to get the gist of it.
Clearing the Smoke on Obama's Eligibility
30 posted on 10/03/2009 12:06:39 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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To: Ready4Freddy
" I’m certainly familiar w/ FS-240, but simply being born abroad to a foreign father & American mother isn’t sufficient to convey American citizenship. "

It may, or may not, for American citizenship, but, not conveying " Natural Born " citizenship.
31 posted on 10/03/2009 12:12:14 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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To: SaraJohnson

Who’s older. If Barack is older, then he definitely wasn’t born in the US.


32 posted on 10/03/2009 12:40:29 AM PDT by TheThinker
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To: TheThinker


“Who’s older. If Barack is older, then he definitely wasn’t born in the US.”


I believe Obama is older but I don’t get what you are saying.


33 posted on 10/03/2009 12:44:32 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: paudio
Am I wrong?

I think you are probably right. Although this is a matter of a bit of obscurity due to the changing laws on the subject, the British law that made Obama a British colonial subject at birth may not have operated to that effect if he had been born out of wedlock to his British father.

I think the evidence is that Obama's parents WERE married (otherwise a divorce would not have been needed) and that Obama WAS a British subject at birth, and that he was not, therefore, a natural born citizen of the United States. I believe that this is the classic example is who the Framers intended to bar from the Presidency by their use of the phrase: someone who could be claimed as a national by Great Britain.

34 posted on 10/03/2009 2:50:37 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: Ready4Freddy

Indonesia is a birthright citizenship country, extending Indonesian citizenship only to individuals with an Indonesian father, and to ALL children born in Indonesia of an Indonesian father. Moreover, in the 1960s Indonesia didn’t recognize dual citizenship. At Maya’s birth her mother (and father) would have had to make a decision: whether to use Maya’s mother to claim US citizenship for the daughter. I suspect that they did so. Otherwise Maya would have had to go through a complete adult naturalization process, which I don’t think she needed to do.


35 posted on 10/03/2009 2:57:36 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: John Valentine
I think the evidence is that Obama's parents WERE married (otherwise a divorce would not have been needed) and that Obama WAS a British subject at birth, and that he was not, therefore, a natural born citizen of the United States. I believe that this is the classic example is who the Framers intended to bar from the Presidency by their use of the phrase: someone who could be claimed as a national by Great Britain. 

Further proof is how Chester A Arthur successfully covered up his British born father
He was frantic to do this because his cover-ups took place in 1880-1890
When the Constitution was fresher and its intent was clearer
The liberals and progressives have obscured and muddied up the Constitution since then
36 posted on 10/03/2009 4:29:13 AM PDT by dennisw (Free Republic is an island in a sea of zombies)
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To: dennisw

If Maya was American at birth (through her mother) then she was an American citizen. It seems you misunderstand the concept of “naturalization”. Naturalization is the process by which a non-citizen becomes a citizen. Now if she had a claim to citizenship at birth, but did not assert that claim until she was older - that is someting entirely different.


37 posted on 10/03/2009 5:53:15 AM PDT by August West (Pink Kool Aid, Green Kool-Aid; it doesn't matter, as long as they drink it.)
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To: Ready4Freddy

AS long as the U.S. citizen parent has lived 5 years in the U.S. (2 after the age of 15) AND can prove it, then the kid can lay claim to U.S. citizenship. I know, I’ve done it.


38 posted on 10/03/2009 6:00:34 AM PDT by August West (Pink Kool Aid, Green Kool-Aid; it doesn't matter, as long as they drink it.)
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To: Frantzie

http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/doh-reverses-course-releases-index-data-for-president-obama-stanley-ann-and-barack-sr-no-records-for-maya-exist/#comments


39 posted on 10/03/2009 6:12:37 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault
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To: Right Wing Assault

Reading white on black text is a pain!


40 posted on 10/03/2009 6:13:49 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault
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To: August West

Well now, ain’t you the young’un! (or are you the parent?)

It’s after age 14, actually, and those are the ‘new’ (1986) rules. Maya’s situation fell under the prior 1952 requirements.

I’ve always thought it ridiculous that a 16/17 yo can leave the country, have no further dealings w/ or residency in the US (an admittedly clumsy way to measure ‘allegiance’), and have a baby 10-15 years later that is eligible for birthright citizenship.


41 posted on 10/03/2009 6:56:26 AM PDT by Ready4Freddy (Everyone knows there's a difference between muslims & terrorists... no one knows what it is, though.)
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To: John Valentine

Whether Indonesia recognized dual citizenship is irrevelent. Maya could have been both Indonesian AND American without the other country knowing about it. Indonesian laws do not affect American policy, and American laws don’t affect Indonesian policy. Even if Indonesian law forced her to renounce her American citizenship, she still would be a U.S. citizen.


42 posted on 10/03/2009 6:59:28 AM PDT by August West (Pink Kool Aid, Green Kool-Aid; it doesn't matter, as long as they drink it.)
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To: Right Wing Assault

Agree 110% ! When Leo first started posting these, I immediately commented on this. A few people scolded me and told me that Leo is here to “please me” ! YIKES !

I can barely see ANYTHING on his site during the day so I feel your pain...

I found that if you copy and paste the info (a few paragraphs at a time) into my e-mail account, it converts it to black on white.


43 posted on 10/03/2009 8:01:10 AM PDT by rocco55
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To: August West

Isn’t that pretty much what I said?

And why would Indonesia force Maya to renounce a citizenship you yourself admit the Indonesians would have been unaware of.

What I said was that I presumed that Maya’s mother would have claimed US citizenship for her. If Stanley Ann had not done so, there would have come a time when Maya would have had a more difficult time establishing US citizenship. It would NOT have been automatic unless Maya’s birth and US Citizenship status had been established in a timely manner.


44 posted on 10/03/2009 8:02:38 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: Right Wing Assault

Correction: Leo is “not” here to please me.


45 posted on 10/03/2009 8:03:28 AM PDT by rocco55
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To: August West

It is YOU who is mistaking the formal naturalization process for for all forms of citizenship granted through statute enacted by Congress under the plenary powers granted to it by the naturalization clause of the US Constitution.

In fact, ALL forms of citizenship other than “natural born” citizenship exist through the operation of federal statute law, and are therefore properly thought of as forms of naturalized citizenship. This includes anyone granted US citizenship although born in a foreign land (other than the children of diplomats). This is true whether the child has one or both US citizen parents. Absent this statute, no child born abroad (other than the child of diplomats) would be a US citizen at all.

To repeat: ALL forms of citizenship that derive from the operation of statute law are a forms of NATURALIZED citizenship.


46 posted on 10/03/2009 8:09:57 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: Frantzie
Looks like Maya has no COLB according to Leo's record search and the parents were married.

A CoLB would be bases on some document in the Hawaii Department of Health records. So if there is no index record, there could never have been a CoLB issued. However spelling variants of foreign names are common. IIRC there are even variants of Soetero, let alone her given names.

47 posted on 10/03/2009 8:25:14 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: paudio
If they were not married, it’s more likely that he had to follow the mother’s. Am I wrong?

I would think that the father's name on the long form birth certificate would establish parentage, married or not. The Certificate of Live Birth form, in '61, did not even contain a field to indicate if the parents were married. It also asks for the mother's maiden name, not her married name, if any.

Thus, if the test for NBC is having two US citizen parents, he fails, IF the long Form BC shows BHO Sr as his father.

IMHO, the search for British citizenship for Junior is misplaced. It doesn't matter. Citizenship of his father, the legal one, does. If the father was not a US Citizen, the child is not an NBC. Now there are potential circumstances that would make BHO Jr. not even a citizen, unless later naturalized, but confirming those could prove difficult.

48 posted on 10/03/2009 8:35:44 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: dennisw
Since her mother is an American citizen she is one too.

While by the time Maya was born, S. Ann was able to convey citizenship to a child born abroad with an alien father, that is not true in general. For example, IF Barry was born abroad, his mother did not meet the "residency in the US" requirements to convey citizenship.

49 posted on 10/03/2009 8:39:36 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Ready4Freddy
I meant to mention - if Maya’s mom met the residency requirements, it would not result in ‘naturalization’, but the conveyance of birthright citizenship.

It would still be citizenship by statute. Congress only has the power to define a uniform rule of naturalization. So, despite Congress definition in the law, such "birthright" citizenship must be considered "naturalization at birth", or it would be unconstitutional as a Congressional exercise of power not granted by the Constitution.

50 posted on 10/03/2009 8:48:44 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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