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Marx gets Vatican thumbs up
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/international/article37253.ece ^

Posted on 10/22/2009 7:34:31 AM PDT by kronos77

Amid the worst recession in generations, Karl Marx, who famously described religion as “the opium of the people”, got a thumbs up from the Vatican overturning a century of Catholic hostility to his creed.

Marx, who predicted that capitalism would be destroyed by its internal contradictions, has joined Galileo, Charles Darwin and Oscar Wilde on a growing list of historical figures to have undergone an unlikely reappraisal by the Roman Catholic Church, The Times newspaper said on Thursday.

The British daily, quoting the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano, said Marx’s early critiques of capitalism had highlighted the “social alienation” felt by the “large part of humanity” that remained excluded from economic and political decision-making.

Amid signs of recovery in global financial markets, Christian leaders have flayed the capitalist system for displaying a lack of moral values, arguing that ethical debates needs to be given greater prominence.

Georg Sans, a German-born professor of the history of contemporary philosophy at the pontifical Gregorian University, argues that Marx’s work remained especially relevant today as mankind was seeking “a new harmony” between its needs and the natural environment.

The report quoted Prof. Sans as saying that Marx’s theories may help to explain the enduring issue of income inequality within capitalist societies.

(Excerpt) Read more at beta.thehindu.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anticatholic; antichristian; bravosierra; capitalism; catholic; communism; inaccurateheadline; karlmarx; liberationtheology; marx; sourcetitlenoturl; vatican; yellowjournalism
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To: Judith Anne
Hey, my pleasure!

I heard from a guy who read an article in The National Inquirer that there was a piece in The Star that quoted a column in People about a guy who had a cousin whose sister-in-law had a grilled cheese sammich (NEA authorized spelling) with John Calvin's face on it.

And you can quote me!

41 posted on 10/22/2009 8:28:20 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: reagandemocrat

This doctrine represents the (true) “tragic” vision of man (per Sowell).

The “locus of discretion”, where decisions are made, should be located closest to the point of the information required to make those decisions.

Conservatives believe the information is most available at the local and individual level,
elitists believe that a centralized elite authority has the necessary information (and better wisdom, intellect and morality) to make the decisions.

It all comes back to Satan’s lie about the nature of man.


42 posted on 10/22/2009 8:28:27 AM PDT by MrB (The only difference between a humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: SoothingDave

I love those who appear on Catholic threads when it is written that the Pope supports a One World government, Marxism as does the church and say that it’s what it means or doen’t believe what you read.

The leaders of the Catholic Church support One World Government and Nationalized Healthcare.


43 posted on 10/22/2009 8:29:46 AM PDT by stockpirate ("if my thought-dreams could be seen. They'd probably put my head in a guillotine" Dylan)
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To: kronos77
OK... a few things to take note of here:

1) This article is not a "Vatican endorsement" of Marx. It is the opinion of one professor at the Gregorian University (a Jesuit - insert obligatory Jesuit joke here).

2) The Pontifical Gregorian University is an excellent university, and has many good and faithful professors... but there are still some that are a little... for want of any better word, off. Some more than others.

3) The someone in the Vatican Secretariat of State forwarded this on to L'Osservatore Romano (someone who apparently thinks that the Church promoting any part of the philosophy that it has condemned for more than a century and still does is an alright idea).

I've heard rumor that there is some tension within the Curia that includes the Secretariat of State...

My opinion: Somebody in the SoS just stuck it to the Vatican.

44 posted on 10/22/2009 8:29:57 AM PDT by GCC Catholic (0bama, what are you hiding? Just show us the birth certificate...)
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To: MrB

So you think the Vatican has control of any government but their own?

Seriously?

If anyone reads “Charity in Truth” they will see that it’s not about government control but individual Charity.

No matter how the MSM wants to spin it.


45 posted on 10/22/2009 8:30:20 AM PDT by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: stockpirate

Can you please give me the quote, directly from this encyclical that tells any government to implement what is proposed there?


46 posted on 10/22/2009 8:32:10 AM PDT by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: agere_contra; Campion
The man isn’t even a priest.

Georg Sans, SJ

He's either a Jesuit brother or priest. I just checked.

47 posted on 10/22/2009 8:33:24 AM PDT by GCC Catholic (0bama, what are you hiding? Just show us the birth certificate...)
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To: netmilsmom

Oh, I fully agree that charity is an individual mandate,
but do the liberal priests believe this? Or do they believe that charity is best done through the State?

The vatican and priests can influence their members to vote in a certain way, can influence their worldview, and, indirectly, control the government of democracies.


48 posted on 10/22/2009 8:33:44 AM PDT by MrB (The only difference between a humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: stockpirate

Settle down and try writing that sentence again.


49 posted on 10/22/2009 8:35:01 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Bainbridge
The old problem of "same and other."

The "same": Some Catholics 'church shop'. (Some, not all. My famdamily went to the same parish for maybe a decade because it was the one we were closest to, and for no other reason. As soon as I had a good pastoral duty to move to my current parish I did, but not before.)

The "other": I would venture that Catholics who "church shop" go from one Catholic parish to another, not from one denomination to another, and if there were no other Catholic parish they'd stay where they were and either mutter in their beards or make life miserable for the pastor.

BECAUSE the pastor is not the "show." Jesus is the show. The pastor is no more than either an enhancement or a nuisance.

And I KNOW this because I read a review of a TV show which had a discussion about radio talk show where one of the guys interviewed said he found some stone carvings in The Anasazi site which mentioned that some Catholics move from parish to parish. So it MUST be true.

50 posted on 10/22/2009 8:37:50 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Campion

Thanks for this post and the refernece to the enyclical..

There is also an encyclical “Atheistic Communism” (delivered in 1937) which is an excellent source for understanding the Church’s position on communism.

It’s also prophetic in that it cautions about the rise of the feminist movement, the break-up of families, and the power of the Fourth Estate.

All encyclicals are intended to teach—and are a part of the magisterium.

The same can’t be said of news articles.


51 posted on 10/22/2009 8:38:21 AM PDT by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words:"It's too late"))
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To: Mad Dawg

That sister in law was ME!!!! And I fed it to the dog!


52 posted on 10/22/2009 8:38:41 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Drill in the USA and offshore USA!! Drill NOW and build more refineries!!!! Defund the EPA!)
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To: GCC Catholic

Thanks for checking it out.

My bad for stating categorically that he couldn’t be: it’s much more likely that he is either a brother or even a priest, but without the cure of souls.

In any case I shouldn’t have presumed to hang a dog on this 5th party evidence of what he’s supposed to have said.


53 posted on 10/22/2009 8:40:12 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: stockpirate
The leaders of the Catholic Church support One World Government and Nationalized Healthcare.

And we KNOW this to be true because
we read a graffito in a bathroom stall
which quoted a "tag" on the side of an abandoned building in the Bronx
which referred to a sermon preached in a new age synagogue
which mentioned what a Dominican dying of alcohol poisoning said with his last breath.

So it's true. We don't actually have to read the documents or think or pray about them. We have all the information we need to confirm our previously drawn conclusions.

54 posted on 10/22/2009 8:43:08 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: MrB

>>The vatican and priests can influence their members to vote in a certain way, can influence their worldview, and, indirectly, control the government of democracies.<<

I agree, they can. But do they?
Maybe, maybe not. I think a lot of people got stung in the last election. Jews and Catholics.

Catholics read this the way it was written, as a mandate for me and Pete in the Pew. Others may read it a different way but Catholics look at Catholic instruction as for Catholics.

For some reason, non-Catholics look at it as an attempt to instruct non-Catholics and are appalled. Non-Catholics don’t listen to the Pope in other things and are indignant about someone telling them they should (righteously so in my opinion). It’s only when the mainstream media spins the words that the non-Catholics get upset.

If we don’t trust the MSM to bring us the words of Rush, why do we trust them to bring us the words of the Pope?


55 posted on 10/22/2009 8:44:14 AM PDT by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: Judith Anne

Darn! You coulda made a PILE of money on E-bay!


56 posted on 10/22/2009 8:44:56 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: kronos77

In the 30’s we had thousands standing in bread lines and hunting work, but in the 60’s, 70’s and now we have thousands unemployed who don’t have to be, thousands sleeping under bridges an in the streets who don’t have to, who modified the standards? Dope pushers, professors, politicans you name it.


57 posted on 10/22/2009 8:45:08 AM PDT by Waco (Kiss an illegal aliens' axx and buckle yer seat belt, it's the law.)
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To: MrB
The vatican and priests can influence their members to vote in a certain way, can influence their worldview, and, indirectly, control the government of democracies.

And no other church or religious group does that? No other group in general does that?

Also, look at how well that has worked out in the democracies of historically Catholic countries...

58 posted on 10/22/2009 8:46:43 AM PDT by GCC Catholic (0bama, what are you hiding? Just show us the birth certificate...)
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To: netmilsmom; MrB
>>The vatican and priests can influence their members to vote in a certain way, can influence their worldview, and, indirectly, control the government of democracies.<< I agree, they can. But do they?

Wrong tense. I'd go with the extreme southern conditional tense, e.g.: "maybe might could."

Judging by the bumper stickers in our parish parking lot I'd conclude that the well known conservative tendencies of our clergy team had absolutely ZIP to do with how people voted. Maybe somewhere clergy CAN, but I think people misunderestimate the orneriness of the average Catholic perishioner.

59 posted on 10/22/2009 8:49:26 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

Actually the Pope put out a document about 2-3 months ago in support of a one world government and redistribtion of wealth.

And recently many US Bishops supported the HC bill if it removed abortion.


60 posted on 10/22/2009 8:52:29 AM PDT by stockpirate ("if my thought-dreams could be seen. They'd probably put my head in a guillotine" Dylan)
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