Posted on 10/23/2009 8:51:50 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
For all of history, the fundamental issue in the creation-evolution conflict has been philosophical presuppositions, not empirical evidence or brute facts. Creationists have been pointing this out for many years, with varying degrees of effectiveness. To their credit, the modern Intelligent Design movement has recognized this same point, and for almost twenty years now, has explicitly made philosophical argumentation central in the debate over Darwinism. Phillip Johnson played an important role in bringing the philosophy of naturalism out into the open and onto the dissecting table with his best-selling Darwin on Trial, the book usually credited with launching the modern ID movement.1 Distinctions between methodological naturalism and metaphysical naturalism became key points of debate.2 Biophysicist Cornelius Hunter has added to this understanding by authoring several books focused on the history of Darwinism and design.3 His latest work, Sciences Blind Spot, turns the tables completely on naturalism, this time in the realm of history, arguing that Darwinism is religious and ID is empirical. This thesis is not new in the ID literature, but Hunters way of saying it is.
Bacon vs Descartes
Hunter begins with a trip back in history...
(Excerpt) Read more at creation.com ...
Lots of them. http://www.yecheadquarters.org/oec.html
Actually, that thought never occurred to me. But if what you say is true, then all I can say is they would be wrong.
But such considerations aren't scientific, they are theological. Why do you dwell on them?
I don't dwell on them. I was reponded to your posts that quoted the article that Christians welcomed the ID movement and which you said was most likely true.
But earlier you wrote, "Not that I know that you do NOT welcome the ID movement, I will not state otherwise...." How did you get from there to your positive assertion that I embrace the "movement" as "most likely true?"
What a muddle!
I stated that I would not state that you supported the ID movement. Isn’t that your position?
I support science, not "movements." Having said that, I think that ID's claim that certain phenomena in nature can best be explained in terms of an intelligent cause holds water (so to speak).
Ah! I see the confusion. I was not saying that you said the ID movement was true. I was saying that you said the statement 'Christians embrace the ID movement' was most likely true.
God?
The problem is, anybody can register a website, throw up some content, and claim to speak for others. That doesn't make it so. It's just a valid as representing Dawkins as speaking for everyone who's not a YEC.
Show some evidence to the otherwise, please.
Are you a YEC’er?
If they "give" you one that doesn't, they then get to claim that as evidence that none of them do.
No problem. I said anyone except GGG.
I've talked to people who believe in YEC, but aren't evangelical. The view those beliefs as personal, and not something they require of others as a prequisite for fellowship or civil discussion of scientific issues that intersect those beliefs. Some other, not so much.
Nope.
I have a BIL that is a YEC'er. He is a civil, socialble person but cannot even conceive that anyone that believes other than his beliefs is a real Christian.
I’m not a YECer, and I’m not an atheist, and I’m getting really tired of people trying to tell me I have to be one or the other, or that either one is my political persuasion.
I posted before I looked at the name of the poster. I sometimes for get to look when I am going to and fro with another.
I really don't have a problem with that. Now, if he's a scientist and implies that as a matter of academics and formal methodology that nobody who's not a YEC can be a real scientist, that's a different matter.
I understand.
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