Posted on 12/12/2009 10:18:15 AM PST by Orange1998
A swap, of debt for debt, then,
The names are changed the results are the same.
Semantic really hit a nerve for that kind of response. Clearly, you point fingers only to the debtors for this crisis while I point towards the greedy bankers and debtors alike. It takes both to tango.
You need mental help if you really believe that pap and are NOT just a government stooge or shill for the banks.
The bankers are the ones who put the country in this hole and were bailed out by the taxpayers.
Anything else you say can be ignored since you refuse to acknowledge reality.
No backup for your claim that they sold stock to the Fed?
A swap, of debt for debt, then,
Debt? I thought we were talking about capital?
You can call it voodoo funds if you wish! Since, “Currently no public market exists for the common equivalent securities, the depositary shares, or the contingent warrants. “
Yeah, your claim was wrong.
A bubble every 5-10 years is not normal and shouldn’t be acceptable with the magnitude of the last 2. Most people have lost their nutsacks in the stock market and quite frankly a lot of my mistake was using a “financial advisor” from a major company the first go round. The second go round I got out, but not quick enough. You are supposed to be able to put money in the stock market over a lifetime and come out ahead.
Since the early 1990’s we’re pretty much even or down slightly. That is not historical at all with the history of the stock market. I don’t need stats to back that up, I have my mutual funds and those of my friends. Those of course were supposed to be safe/minimal returns.
Personally I know Bush gave us TARP, that’s why he was a horrible president. Then you had the “stimulus package” from BO which was just a continuation of bad policy.
Democrats aren’t our problem, both sides are the problem. We disagree on the effectiveness of the TARP and what the potential outcome would have been. I’m locked and loaded, but I don’t think that would have been necessary at the supermarket as you suggest. Instead what we have is tax money propping up a system in the short term and if you don’t think it is going to lead to a monumental crash or huge inflation in the next 20-30 years, you’re sadly mistaken.
We’re not better off for TARP, we’re delaying and making it worse by not allowing appropriate losses/failures.
Uh...last I checked, we didn’t ‘give’ the government money.
They TOOK it. From us, from our children, and from our children’s children, etc.
Time to take America back.
True dat.
Don't work for the government nor for any bank. I defend men unjustly assailed by ignorant haters, because it is morally right to do so.
Have taxpayers lost anything supporting the banking system in this crisis?
No.
Have bankers lost anything in this crisis?
Oh yes, most definitely. Trillions.
Does the financial sector pay to support general government revenues, wasted on middle class entitlements and welfare, every year? You betcha.
Did deadbeats on main street "put the country in this hole", along with lots of other people? Of course. Plenty of stupidity to go around, and no holiness anywhere.
Can you make it cheaper by attacking bankers and trying to stiff them for the entire nut? Nope, that is precisely what made it worse. Five tiers of counterparties had to blow out before their dud loans ended up at the banks, moving up the chain of collateral as all the welshers defaulted.
The banks are the ones who actually paid - including paying back all the support they got from the treasury - when everyone else did not. They are vastly more honest and useful to society, than oh let's say --- you.
Has been for the entire history of capitalism. You just do not know any history. Read Kindleberger if you need details.
And no, most people have not lost in the US stock market; it is the greatest engine of wealth creation in history. A few people late to the party buying at the peak prices and shaken out since, can have lost in stocks. But the weighted average gain of all stock investors is basically the difference between their book and their present market value, and it is positive trillions - on top of hundreds of billions in continual dividends over decades.
But on average no one has ever made money, net, trading *commodities*. Producing them sure, or taking commissions to shovel them around like a rake at a poker table. But nothing comes off the table the players didn't put on it, in commodities, ergo the average bettor can't make money on them.
And no, the stock market is not "down slightly" since the early 90s. In the early 90s the SP500 was at around 400 and the Dow was about 3-4000. Both are up 2-3 fold plus dividends paid over that period. To get no return you have to measure from a previous peak to a current trough - which doesn't change the trend rate, it is merely true of any time series with high volatility.
Bush was not a horrible president. He was an excellent president very badly treated by a country that scarcely deserves him. He made several important mistakes, as did his team working under him. But he freed tens of millions from tyranny, defeated numerous implacable enemies, and helped make all of us profoundly safer - and freer, and wealthier. Your ingraditude is merely another injustice that damns you and not its intended targets.
As for monumental crashes, we already had one. As for monumental inflations, those like you have predicted fifty of the last zero - the prediction is a piece of ideology and it never happens. As for bravely predicting that something will happen in the next 30 years, it would be a miracle if there weren't additional bubbles and recessions and market crashes in the next 30 years. But the American people will be much much richer 30 years from now than they are today, just as they are much, much richer now than they were 30 years ago, or then than 30 years before that, and so on back to colonial times.
Doom mongers are always wrong. But they never learn and they never stop. The root of their error is philosophical; since it has nothing to do with history or reality, it is immune to learning from either. Morally, they are ungrateful fools.
I never thought these were a good thing.
L
Every country rises and falls. That my friend, is history and I’m well aware (as I’m sure you are). I just happen to think with our current spending and shell game it will be sooner rather than later for us. Once the shell game ends, the country as you know it will end. It probably will look more like the fall of the Soviet Union than the apocalypse, but it will happen. Rome ring a bell?
Ungrateful to Bush? Absolutely. He is a large part of what has caused this current economic and foreign policy mess. The best hope for this country is a more decentralized federal government, not continued executive power grabs as he did and BO continues.
If 30 years from now our kids are better off than we are, that would be the miracle you spoke of.
I must admit I got a chuckle out of your “freer” comment. We lose freedoms by the day with every law that is passed. Whether it is the patriot act or backseat seat belt laws. More secure as well? Can’t have both, they are contradictions. Think of it like a sliding scale.
bttt
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