Now Let Us Admire The Clever Way In Which Bank Of America Has Screwed Taxpayers Again (BAC)

Freer and more secure are not contradictory, as both are advanced by American power.

America is not the Soviet Union, it's wealth is not a shell game but real, and none of our many enemies, foreign or domestic, has laid a glove on us to date. Capitalism continues to succeed and thrive.

Americans 30 years from now will be vastly richer than we are today, approximately double in real terms - perhaps 50% more per capita and more Americans enjoying all of it, as well.

Your hatred of your own country is palpable, but not justified by anything. It is as base and stupid as the left's during the Bush years, and it has exactly the same cause. Anything you do not think you rule, you hate.

Quite.

And just to clarify, you were quoting the original article and not me. I never supported the pay cap nonsense, which the populist congress added to Paulson's proposal, trying to look anti-banker for the sake of the bank haters.

In the news today, now Citi is repaying - rather ahead of schedule, but in time to be able to tell Obama to get lost if necessary, I suppose. Wells Fargo is in far better shape than Citi and can easily do so whenever it wants to.

Wow, apparently someone thinks they know me. Because I think the country is on the wrong path doesn’t mean I hate it, it means... I think it is on the wrong path (clear enough dumbass?). Your arrogance and obvious wanting to debate everyone shows exactly what you are... a putz who thinks he knows everything and actually knows nothing.

Take your trolling elsewhere. You have argued with everyone on this thread.

You did not say the country is on the wrong path, which implies choice and easy amendment to the right path. You said all nations fall and spoke of long swaths of history, implying determinism and inevitability and finality. In other words, you've given up on your own country - and merely because it does not submit to your every policy whim, or even one lost election, I might easily add.

Chesterton put it well when he contrasted the pessimist and the patriot. A patriot can see anything wrong with his country because he will side with it regardless and wants it to be worthy. A pessimist, on the other hand, looks for anything that can detach men from its cause. Where you fall on that divide is obvious from your previous post.

As for why I need to debate many here, it is because we get articles like this one, at the very time TARP is being terminated for every large bank, having proved successful in its primary mission. In case you hadn't noticed, countering anti-American media spin is a primary purpose of FR, which is founded on the understanding that the MSM cannot be trusted to tell the truth, but will always distort everything.

Bank of America has not screwed the taxpayers again. The taxpayers did not lose a dime supporting Bank of America. Having now round tripped on Fed support to the banking system, TARP support to BAC, Citi, Wells Fargo, etc, we are at the precise moment in time in which nearly all of the stock allegations against this *Bush* policy have been refuted by reality. That is why its opponents spin desperately at this moment and on this subject. They don't want anyone to notice that their endlessly screamed lies that it was all bankrupting the taxpayer, were and remain flat out lies.

But I do notice, and I rub their noses in the fact, and they bloody well do not like it. Tough toenails.

So are you saying I’m incorrect when I mentioned that all countries rise and fall?

After you get done agreeing with me that all countries live and die, insert the US of A in that equation since we are a country.

You (or your hero) call it patriot vs pessimist. I call it pessimist vs optimist vs realist. You’re the optimist, I’m the realist. The realist says if we move toward the correct path, we can delay the inevitable, but we can’t remove it all together. It is like saying... if I work out and eat healthy, I can potentially live longer. The truth of the matter is, I will die eventually.

Sounds like Chesterton should have used “Peter Pan” instead of “Patriot” to denote one who lives in a fantasy land. Merely changing “optimist” to “patriot” is a silly attempt at trying to create the illusion of good. Kind of like “patriot act” as opposed to calling it “searches without judicial oversight act” which would have been more accurate.

TARP is/was a failure because it didn’t allow the big/weak to fail. The strong surviving is what makes the world go ‘round. Allowing the fat cats to survive is only putting off until tomorrow what should have been done today. Let’s let the tree continue to grow by cutting off the dying branches.

There were still companies giving loans. A friend of mine owns his own mortgage company and is about to buy a bank (since the time to buy is now when everyone else is selling). Business has been phenomenal for him during the downturn because his loans were made using sound practices. Those that didn’t use sound business practices, piss on them. Small to mid companies like his could easily pick up the slack for the dead weight.

So the MSM was against TARP? Really? They were eating it up while simultaneously blaming Bush for the problem. True conservatives (such as those on FR) were the ones sounding the alarm AND blasting Bush. Tea Parties were sounding the alarm. The MSM loved it because the Dems and moderate Repubs loved it. That also lead to the BO bailout which was again loved by the MSM.

Your beloved TARP is about to be converted to more “stimulus” and that my misinformed amigo is why TRUE conservatives were against it. Once monies (or freedoms) are freely taken from the people in a “crisis”, they are never returned. Sure, we might get some chump change out of it, but we’re still going to get hosed by TARP.

One suggestion, don’t use phrases like “bloody well”, it makes one sound like a pompous posterior, English chap. It further affirms my previous assertion and up until your last paragraph, was almost willing to think I had the wrong impression of you.

Plenty of big and weak firms did fail, of course. Quite enough to nearly wreck the economic and political systems of the functioning half of the planet. Even letting Lehman fail messy was a huge mistake and it helped no one.

As for why the raving populists were and are against TARP, it was and is purely because it helped people richer than they are. If they cared about it harming the treasury they'd pay attention to the blatant fact that oh, right, it hasn't.

As for TARP "money" (no such thing) being "reused" on "stimulus", hasn't happened and can't happen under existing law. It takes new law to spend it, and the responsibity for any such new law lies with those advocating and passing it - if anybody does.

As for Chesterton, since you clearly don't understand his distinction, nor where optimists fit in his tri-partition, you might go read it yourself; it is the chapter "the flag of the world" in his book "Orthodoxy". You can find it online, I believe.

Countries do not die because they do not live, nor do they age, it is a metaphor pursued to stupidity. Individual human beings live. Men being free, they can form whatever groups they desire and keep them as long as they wish, or not.

As for your "we", there is nothing that unites you and I. I don't recognize your authority to speak for conservatism or Americans in any respect. To me, you are a mere interloper polluting my party, which does not need you.

Your party? Please... take it. I don’t need slavery and exactly your attitude is exactly what is wrong with “your party”.

Thanks for the initial interest, but your responses are becoming stale. May we “enlighten” one another on another thread at another time with another topic.

Dead horse.

Thanks - so get out. Simple.

Seriously dude, you need help. May God grant you wisdom.

Seriously, "dude", all I need is for conservatives and republicans to actually side with American business and capitalism, instead of playing me-too class-warfare games, pretending there is anything just in a raving mob screaming for the blood of the rich. But I know what populists are, at the bottom of their souls, and I never expect anything just to come from them.