Posted on 12/23/2009 9:10:48 AM PST by markomalley
SAN FRANCISCO — It was the week before Christmas when Irv Sutley, a former warehouse worker, first saw the offending ornament in a government building in Sonoma County, just north of here.
“I was turning around in the lobby, and I noticed the tree,” Mr. Sutley said. “And then, I noticed the angel.”
Mr. Sutley, an atheist, said he then went to the office of the county Board of Supervisors. “And there was a star,” he said.
Technically, neither stars nor angels belong to any particular religion. But to the mind of Mr. Sutley, 65, a veteran who has fought to keep religion out of public meetings and buildings, the symbolism was clear.
“For most people, a star atop a tree at this time of season represents the star of Bethlehem, which is a cult symbol, the cult being Christianity,” he said, adding that the government should be neutral on religion.
Sonoma County officials conferred with their lawyers, and on Monday the acting county administrator, Chris Thomas, asked county departments to remove stars, angels or any other religious symbols “so that we can celebrate the season yet not appear to endorse Christian or other religious doctrines.”
Mr. Thomas cited a 1989 Supreme Court decision, Allegheny v. A.C.L.U., which stated that while Christmas trees could be seen as secular, they could also be seen as religious if decorated with religious symbols.
All of which pleased Mr. Sutley, who said he had found about a half-dozen stars on other trees around the building in Santa Rosa. He said he found none in the social services department, in which he found a religious placard during the holidays last year. (It, too, was removed.)
(Excerpt) Read more at elpasoinc.com ...
“But this a$$wipe has no problem with the 50 stars on the flag he fought for?”
It was the way it was written. It fooled several so far. The guy isn’t a veteran.
The guy is a veteran of keeping religious symbols off public property. That is what he has “fought” for. If the guy was an actual prior member of the service you can be sure it was peace time, the guy never left the states, and most probably didn’t function well either ending up in the brig or quickly leaving the service.
Plus, the guy is a “former” warehouse worker. In other words he is unemployed.
So, a completely unsavory blowhard spends his time hating Christianity and living off the government tit. Sounds like a future legislator for California. He should run for office.
There are times when violence is uncalled for. However, there are times when violence is appropriate. The distinction is when people who are offensive and oppressive seek to dominate and control others, and seek to hide behind and use the grace given to others who are not offensive and oppressive.
This is why, for example, when neo-Nazis wanted to march through Skokie, Illinois, a heavily Jewish area, with the sole purpose of inflicting emotional distress on people, despite what the ACLU said, it is *not* free speech. In doing so, they were not petitioning the government. They were seeking to intimidate and harm people in their own homes.
A star or an angel on a Christmas tree is a passive display, even more passive than music. No one is “oppressed” by such a display, forced to watch it with more than a passing glance. And no reasonable person could assume that it is a statement of policy.
But for an individual to demand its removal, turns a voluntary act of emplacement, into an involuntary act of removal. This is an effort to control and dominate, an offensive act, and an un-American act. As such it should be treated the same as if someone knocked on the door of a black citizen, then told them to move out because the knocker is “offended” by blacks.
And in this case, violence is very called for, either for the atheist or the racist. And a lack of violence will encourage them to commit future acts of offense and oppression.
is also chairman of the Sonoma County’s Peace and Freedom Party.””
Sure does not say much for that particular political party, does it??
Hope there are no American flags in the Sonoma County government offices. Each of those would have 50 of the offending stars.
That guy is just looking for ways to be offended. And I should remind all that to be offended is an overt choice. This guy chooses to find that which brings others joy to be offensive.
Inclusive not exclusive. These morons need a beat down.
Atheists need to stop forcing Their Religion down our throats!
Well, those Christians are confused b/c Jeremiah 10 is talking about the heathen and their idol worship of trees and things made of gold and silver, etc. The main theme there and admonitions was against idolatry....not trees or gold or silver...Many of those christians that feel that way about Christmas Trees have televisions, which serve as much more of an idol than any tree...
Yes, I know that, but Jeremiah is admonishing them from even having them there, whether or no. Do you despise his advice?
I hope this idiot doesn’t look up in the sky at night if he is so offended by stars...... I suggest if he has a problem with those stars, then he needs to talk to God......oh, wait, nevermind....
This is the type of person who pisses in the coffee pot before everyone else comes in to work.
Mr. Sutley...thank you for your service.
I'm sure you felt that you fought for the right to do as you are doing, and so you did...but...Mr. Sutley, you really need to get a life.
Sudley knows this ~ his sort of demon always know the facts ~ and he's POd.
Being distracted with his rhetorical flourishes the king, his sons and their advisors were distracted from purusing the business of the kingdom.
just oy. get a life, moron.
How do you so consistently think you'll get away with pronouncing such pompous ignorance?
Jeremiah predicted that Nebuchadnezzar would conquer Judea. He foretold how long the exile would be, and (as 2nd Chronicles 36:21 attests) he even knew the reason for the duration. What you clearly do not know is how the Sabbath for the Land figured into the system of Israel's national defense, but then you are in good company there.
That one was immediately following your response to me.
Now, "how long" ~ as long as disputations over the character of prophetic utterances is tolerated ~ that's how long.
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