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D.C. man dies after Arlington police use stun gun to try to subdue him
The Washington Post ^ | January 18, 2010 | Maria Glod

Posted on 01/18/2010 1:43:46 PM PST by deks

Arlington police said William R. Bumbrey III, who was suspected of stealing from a nearby pharmacy, was on the platform at the Pentagon City Metro station when an officer approached him. Police said the officer used his Taser, which administers an electric jolt and is designed to be safer than using a firearm, after Bumbrey became aggressive and refused to respond to spoken orders. . . . "He was still struggling," Nosal said. She said that because Bumbrey apparently did not react to the Taser shot, police question whether the Taser made contact with him. . . . Bumbrey was pronounced dead at a hospital, Nosal said. She said that the medical examiner's office will seek to determine a cause of death, and that police also have asked medical examiners to conclude whether the Taser's probes struck Bumbrey.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: arlington; arlingtonva; police; taser; theft; virginia
Another Taser death? Police are not sure if the Taser functioned as intended. Do they ever malfunction...too big or too small a jolt? Either this is another fatal tasering or the man died from some other cause.
1 posted on 01/18/2010 1:43:48 PM PST by deks
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To: deks

Man for a non-lethal weapon, these tasers sure kill a lot of people.


2 posted on 01/18/2010 1:45:46 PM PST by valkyry1
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To: deks

I guess it subdued him real good.................


3 posted on 01/18/2010 1:46:40 PM PST by Red Badger (Obama - The first ever elected lame duck..............)
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To: valkyry1

Don’t Tase me bro!...........................


4 posted on 01/18/2010 1:47:10 PM PST by Red Badger (Obama - The first ever elected lame duck..............)
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To: valkyry1

Before the end of the year, I predict several lawsuits and the cops throughout the US start to dump these stun guns. I suspect that if you examine the health conditions of these people....they have high blood pressure, diabetes, or some pre-existing condition that really screwed up system when the stun is applied.


5 posted on 01/18/2010 1:48:36 PM PST by pepsionice
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To: deks

He was stealing from a pharmacy, he was either doped up or jonesing out of his mind. Doesn’t take much to kill a junkie in that condition.


6 posted on 01/18/2010 1:48:43 PM PST by Fido969 ("The hardest thing in the world to understand is income tax." - Albert Einstein)
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To: deks

“... try to subdue him”? Sounds like they subdued him pretty effectively.

Non-lethal weapons are typically actually just “less lethal” weapons. They can kill — but your odds are better for surviving a taser or a beanbag from a shotgun, than when taking a clip from a 9mm.

Its a shame he died ... but plan B was to blow his head clean off — so they gave him the best chance they could.

SnakeDoc


7 posted on 01/18/2010 1:49:46 PM PST by SnakeDoctor (Life is tough; it's tougher if you're stupid. -- John Wayne)
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To: Red Badger

Snort!


8 posted on 01/18/2010 1:50:05 PM PST by valkyry1
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To: pepsionice

Well, bring back the night stick.


9 posted on 01/18/2010 1:50:19 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: valkyry1
Taser technology is NOT NON LETHAL. It can kill.

Too many police officers figure that because it doesn't rip a football sized hole in your back as it exits that it can't kill.

Alas, it can kill and should always be treated as a lethal weapon.

10 posted on 01/18/2010 1:53:11 PM PST by muawiyah ("Git Out The Way")
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To: SnakeDoctor
I would hope the cops didn't intend to blow his head off ~ he was standing on the platform of a Metro Rail station. I've been there. Much better to deal with hopped up junkies than a cop firing his weapon in all directions.

Where was this guy going to go anyway ~ to the gate? Maybe jump on the track? There are few options when it comes to Metro Rail stations.

11 posted on 01/18/2010 1:56:00 PM PST by muawiyah ("Git Out The Way")
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To: deks

How shocking!


12 posted on 01/18/2010 2:00:00 PM PST by cajuncow
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To: valkyry1

I think that it just happens that a lot of people who have OD’d, get tasered during the death process.


13 posted on 01/18/2010 2:02:33 PM PST by dangerdoc
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To: dangerdoc

Could well be. In any event I never want to test the theory out!


14 posted on 01/18/2010 2:05:42 PM PST by valkyry1
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To: deks

If the man died I guess he was subdued, very subdued.


15 posted on 01/18/2010 2:07:26 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: deks

Mr Bumbrey, in the unlikely event that you come back from the dead, please please, have some respect for law enforcement, will you ?


16 posted on 01/18/2010 2:23:39 PM PST by libh8er
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To: deks

Just last Friday I was at a TASER demonstration by our local police dept. It is awesome..the guy who got tased said it was the worst 5 seconds of his life..but he was able to hop up and be normal immediately. The law enforcement guy said that it is completely safe, but who knows? if you have some weird physical thing, coupled with maybe drug use, who knows? Still better than getting shot. You are rendered COMPLETELY HELPLESS for 5 seconds. It’s amazing.


17 posted on 01/18/2010 2:25:02 PM PST by Hildy (This Christmas, the Democrats have given America the one gift that keeps on taking.)
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To: Hildy

Completely safe in nine hundred and ninety nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine to 1. Someone being tazed with an underlying medical problem could lead to death?

There should be enough data out there to get some measurement on it.


18 posted on 01/18/2010 2:36:46 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel
Someone being tazed with an underlying medical problem could lead to death?

People get heart attacks all on their own. Heart is controlled by electricity, so Taser is a wild card here. It's like shoving an arc welder into a delicate computer.

19 posted on 01/18/2010 2:43:56 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Greysard

What is an electrical cardioversion?

Cardioversion is a brief procedure where an electrical shock is delivered to the heart to convert an abnormal heart rhythm back to a normal rhythm. Most elective or "non-emergency" cardioversions are performed to treat atrial fibrillation or atrial flutter, benign heart rhythm disturbances originating in the upper chambers (atria) of the heart.

Cardioversion is used in emergency situations to correct a rapid abnormal rhythm associated with faintness, low blood pressure, chest pain, difficulty breathing, or loss of consciousness.

20 posted on 01/18/2010 2:51:36 PM PST by deks
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To: deks

Interesting use of electric shock on the heart. I forgot to post the link...

http://www.hrspatients.org/patients/treatments/cardioversion.asp


21 posted on 01/18/2010 2:54:39 PM PST by deks
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To: deks
Cardioversion is a brief procedure where an electrical shock is delivered to the heart to convert an abnormal heart rhythm back to a normal rhythm.

Perfect, now taser victims can also sue police for practicing medicine without license :-)

Indeed it is known how defibrillators work. However in most cases they are operated by medical personnel, and only when they are needed, and the paddles are placed exactly where they should be. There are automatic defibrillators now, to be used by anyone, but they are fairly complicated, contain an internal ECG, and their program has the final say on whether to administer shock or not. It won't do a thing to a healthy person, for example - or to a sick person whose condition is not treatable this way.

Tasers, on the other hand, are used indiscriminately by people with little training in medicine. Their purpose is not to help but to hurt. The shock area is random (depends on where the needles will hit) and the shooter can apply multiple shocks. I am an EE, and in the university we were taught how electric currents affect people. Heart damage is the most dangerous scenario, that's why you are supposed to work with one hand only, and stand on an insulating pad. Wikipedia says this:

The minimum current a human can feel is thought to be about 1 milliampere (mA). The current may cause tissue damage or fibrillation if it is sufficiently high.

22 posted on 01/18/2010 3:10:20 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Red Badger

There should be no relief for arestees who resist.

You run or wrestle you get whupped


23 posted on 01/18/2010 3:14:06 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Tax the poor. Taxes will give them a stake in society)
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To: Greysard

Now hear this: badge-lappers, badge-lappers, lay to the quarterdeck and man your tongues. Lick down and polish all law enforcement officer boots on the double. Set the special cop-worshiping and excuse-making detail. That is all.


24 posted on 01/18/2010 3:40:14 PM PST by Georgia1
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To: Greysard
People get heart attacks all on their own. Heart is controlled by electricity, so Taser is a wild card here. It's like shoving an arc welder into a delicate computer.

That's a good analogy.

I spent a total of 6 days in the hospital being monitored to make sure that the anti-arrhythmic medicine being given me for afib didn't put my lights out permanently.

And I have an ICD implanted to shock my heart if it decides to go into ventricular fibrillation.

I have no intention to get involved with the police or to resist if that happened, but I shudder at the thought of a randomly placed 30 to 50K volt shock from a taser.

25 posted on 01/18/2010 3:46:45 PM PST by Ole Okie
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To: Red Steel

you’d think. If you don’t want to die by police force...don’t do anything wrong. Period.


26 posted on 01/18/2010 4:08:48 PM PST by Hildy (This Christmas, the Democrats have given America the one gift that keeps on taking.)
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To: deks

Bumbrey was released from prison two years ago after being convicted of a sex offense and other crimes.

Not sure if society will miss Mr. Bumbrey much.

27 posted on 01/18/2010 4:43:03 PM PST by csvset
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To: Red Steel
You said,"There should be enough data out there to get some measurement on it."

Apparently someone has been keeping track for one year!

61 Taser-Related Deaths in the United States

"We have tracked taser-related deaths in the United States since January 1, 2009. Today we added 36-year old William Bumbrey III (Arlington, VA) as the 61st victim on our list."

"America's police force is killing people on a weekly basis with taser guns. There are not many states in the nation who have not been involved in a taser-related death this year. Tasers are now deployed in law enforcement agencies in 29 of the 33 largest U.S. cities."

http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com/2009/05/taser-related-deaths-in-united-states.html

28 posted on 01/18/2010 7:19:24 PM PST by deks
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To: deks

The stun gun is a weapon. If you use a weapon on people, it can very likely kill them.


29 posted on 01/18/2010 7:35:02 PM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Be strip-searched by scanners. Buy ObamaCare or go to jail. What's not Totalitarian about that?)
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To: Red Steel
Applying your 999,999 to 1 analogy to "61 taser-related deaths in the United States" in one year, would give a figure of approximately 167,000 taserings per day.

While I can't vouch for the bloggers data in reply #28, they do list each name and the date of each event. I've seen enough headlines myself to think it may be true.

30 posted on 01/18/2010 7:38:02 PM PST by deks
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To: csvset

You said, “Not sure if society will miss Mr. Bumbrey much.”

Is that the only point you have to make concerning ever increasing taser-related deaths in the U.S.?


31 posted on 01/18/2010 7:44:12 PM PST by deks
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To: Hildy
You said, "If you don’t want to die by police force...don’t do anything wrong. Period."

Yeah, like getting sick while you're driving, for instance...

Taser Wrongful Death Lawsuit Filed By Family Of Nevada Doctor

January 7, 2010
"The family of a 33 year-old doctor who died after being shot with a stun gun by Nevada Highway Patrol officer has filed a lawsuit against Taser International, alleging that the stun gun maker failed to adequately warn about the potentially fatal effects of Tasers."

"According to the complaint, Dr. Rich suffered a seizure while on his way to work in January 2007. As a result of his inability to control the pick-up truck he was driving, he was involved in several minor accidents that left him dazed, confused and disoriented when his vehicle came to a stop."

"The family alleges that Taser International misrepresented the safety of their stun guns, failed to disclose and failed to warn Nevada Highway Patrol and their officers about the risks, including the risk of ventricular fibrillation and cardiac arrest when a Taser is applied to the chest and that multiple cycles on a single person increase the risk of injury or death. The complaint also alleges that Taser indicated their weapon was an effective, non-lethal control device, when it is actually potentially lethal."

"Scottsdale-based Taser International has vigorously defended the safety of the weapons in the media and in other cases, obtaining dismissals of most Taser lawsuits that have been filed against them. This fall, however, the company issued a memo to police agencies throughout the United States warning about the potential Taser heart risks, recommending that officers avoid chest shots."

http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/taser-wrongful-death-lawsuit-by-doctor-7569/

32 posted on 01/18/2010 7:57:52 PM PST by deks
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To: deks

167,000 (taser events/day) x 365 = 60,955,000 (total taser events/yr)

(total taser events/yr) 60,955,000 / 36 (taser related deaths/yr) = 1,693,194.4 (taser events/death)

or is it?

(total taser events/yr) 60,955, 000 / 61 (taser related deaths/yr) = 999262.29 (taser events/death)

In other words, ~1.7 million taser events for every taser related death.

or at 61 taser related deaths/yr, it’s ~1 million taser events for every taser related death.


33 posted on 01/18/2010 8:08:45 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

Your 999,999 [one million] to 1 taser analogy applied to 61 deaths per year means 61 million uses for 61 deaths.

I understood that you meant that 1,000,000 uses causing 1 death might be an acceptable ratio in police work.

61 million uses per year is 167,123 per day (seems a bit high to me). So what I’m saying is, if there are *not* 167,123 taserings per day, then the million to one ratio does not hold up.


34 posted on 01/18/2010 8:31:44 PM PST by deks
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To: deks
So what I’m saying is, if there are *not* 167,123 taserings per day, then the million to one ratio does not hold up.

Yes.

35 posted on 01/18/2010 8:53:50 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

I found an article here with quite a few statistics (a bit much to take in at once).

Adoption of stun guns spikes the risk of in-custody death in the first year
JANUARY 30, 2009 | Michael O’Riordan

“Calkins told heartwire that there have been approximately 300 in-custody deaths with 650,000 applications of the Taser, . . .”

http://www.theheart.org/article/938491.do


36 posted on 01/18/2010 9:26:03 PM PST by deks
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