EBay Sellers' Rebellion: The Aftermath

CNN.money.com ^ | January 20, 2010 | Catherine Clifford

[khnyny]

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- As one of his first moves upon becoming CEO, eBay chief John Donahoe unveiled a slew of changes to the online marketplace, kicking off an uproar among sellers and sparking boycotts. Two years later, eBay is finally starting to see signs of success on its turnaround plan.

The San Jose, Calif., e-commerce giant on Wednesday reported 2009 sales of $8.7 billion, up from $8.5 billion in 2008. That's a 14% increase from the $7.7 billion in revenue eBay had in 2007, the year before Donahoe's overhaul.

EBay's profits, though, haven't kept pace with its sales growth. Net income dropped 8% from last year, to $2 billion -- putting eBay's earnings below where they stood two years ago. Gross merchandise volume, a closely watched metric tracking the value of items sold on eBay (EBAY, Fortune 500), was essentially flat from last year and down slightly from 2007.

"These turnaround efforts are paying off," Donahoe said Wednesday on a conference call with analysts.

That's a sharp change from the tone he adopted last year, as the company struggled through its changes.

"This business has continued to fall short of our expectations and customers' expectations," Donahoe told analysts at a meeting in March. "That's not acceptable. EBay has a storied past. But it's a past that we held onto for too long."

The firestorm: In February 2008, then brand-new CEO Donahoe announced a major revamp of eBay's fee structure and feedback policy. The goal was to make the site more buyer-friendly.

The move inflamed eBay's core community of active sellers, which numbers in the millions. They raised virtual pitchforks and organized protests, including a week-long boycott. Amid a flurry of scathing blog posts and online messages, many jumped ship entirely and migrated their online storefront to other sites.

[I cannot think of a name]

It's funny, since Craigslist came about, I've kind of lost my willingness to buy things I haven't seen and touched with my own hands. For example, I see lot's of people on this thread talking about gun parts. Maybe it's because we have about one and a half guns shows a month down here, but I couldn't imagine buying any part of a gun that I haven't been able to hold in my hands and examine.

This attitude is probably because my general trust in humanity was decreased with election of Zero.

[jackibutterfly]

Thanks for responding so fast. :-) However, I couldn’t find a list - I looked all over the website - no luck. Help.

[RnMomof7]

I have had a couple of purchases go bad.. the sellers were both banned shortly AFTER I made a purchase.

The ebay resolution center is USELESS I have found Paypal to really work to get your money back, but I went to them too late the last time and so the last problem left me $100 in the hole..and I am very angry

[Sans-Culotte]

That said, I loathed the prior feedback system. I gave sellers ‘neutral’ reviews simply because they had my money and wouldn’t give it back otherwise—and I was locked into that review. What if they hadn’t? I was shafted.

I have never liked ebay's feedback system. IMO, the seller ought not hold out on feedback once they are paid. The buyer's part in the transaction is over once they have paid, and the seller should give positive feedback immediately. I once left positive feedback for a seller, and contacted him as to why he had not done the same for me. He replied that he didn't like to bother with feedback, (even though he had hundreds to his credit).

I eventually stopped leaving feedback for sellers if they did not first leave feedback for me. I should have 20 or more feedbacks because of that. I have also never left negative feedback for a seller even if they deserved it, because I did not want to get into a negative feedback pissing match. In the 10 or so times I have sold on ebay, I have always left positive feedback to my buyers upon payment.

[Filo]

I gave up on eBay for most of my hobby-related selling and created my own niche, and free, auction site for my vintage computer buying and selling interests. It feels good to deprive eBay of some of the profits from their arrogance.

[DvdMom]

If you read the comments section in the article this was posted as reviews of buyer websites .

1. Ruby Lane (7.97)
2. Bonanzle (6.92)
3. Atomic Mall (6.79)
4. Amazon (6.70)
5. Estsy (6.47)
6. eBid (6.35)
7. TIAS (5.86)
8. eCrater (5.85)
9. Craigslist (5.51)
10. GoAntiques (4.48)
11. CQout (4.46)
12. Bluejay (4.28)
13. eBay (4.11)
14. OnlineAuction (3.92)
14. iOffer (3.75)

[xp38]

yeah but they seem liberal as well...that purple peace symbol is a clue

[nodumbblonde]

Have you used www.searchtempest.com?

[MtnClimber]

As a ebay seller I disagree with you about sellers leaving feedback immediately after payment is made. Paypal holds the payment and will refund it for many buyer scams. For example, a buyer buys 10 items and decides they don't want them. Then they beat these items up with a hammer to damage them, take photos as proof the items are damaged and Paypal refunds the money. As a seller you can't go back and change the feedback.

There is a new class of buyer that sprung up when sellers could no longer leave negative feedback - the buyer that leaves 100% negative feedback to cause disruption. A seller can also open a new account and buy a large number of items from compeating sellers and then leave a large number of negative feedbacks to damage the reputation of competitors. We now have to scan for buyers that leave a large number and 100% negative feedback for other sellers that we believe to be very honest. Then we block these buyers from bidding on our items. Then, sure enough we will often get a profanity laced e-mail from them wondering why they can't bid on our items.

[ops33]

I have been a buyer on Ebay for quite a few years, never a seller. I have had only 1 negative feedback from a seller and that was retalitory. I purchased the item, paid via Paypal, and never received my product. Weeks went buy, no response from my emails to the seller. Finally I gave up, filed a complaint with Paypal and left negative feedback with Ebay. The seller imediately refunded me my money (proof the item was never sent) and then left negative feedback for me saying I never gave her a chance to correct the problem, never contacted her, etc.

[Styria]

You should always pay Paypal using your credit card, even if you've confirmed your account with an existing bank account. Your credit card company will take the full amount of your charge back from Paypal itself over a problem purchase (false charge, failure to deliver, item not as described, etc.), regardless of Paypal only being willing to refund someone up to $200, and leave Paypal with the problem of getting money back from the scammers.

I haven't had to do this myself, but it's what's recommended by many on photography forums; used photography equipment is easily several hundred to thousands of dollars.

[VastRWCon]

Bump :)

Did someone say bump? www.auctionbump.com

Free eBay auction advertising (opens new window)

I have been selling/buying on eBay for about 3 years and have made some good money but lately people are just not buying my crappy stuff...LOL

[fireman15]

“I couldn’t imagine buying any part of a gun that I haven’t been able to hold in my hands and examine.”

We have a gun show around here every couple of weeks either in Puyallup or Monrow. The problem is that I have a bunch of eastern block vintage guns. You don’t find many parts for them at the gun show. I have a couple of favorite Ebay sellers that sell a lot of these parts. They have websites also but for some reason their terms are better on some items when you buy through Ebay.

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

You can’t even use ebay these days without paypal.

You can, but it probably isn't worth the bother. Ebay requires sellers to accept one of several methods of electronic payment, and if you're not a business able to take credit cards directly, that leaves ebay-owned Paypal; or ebay-approved Moneybookers, Paymate, and Propay. They carry the same risks as Paypal, although I don't think any of them have the 21-day funds hold policy that is currently freaking out the less-than-power seller class.

I despise PayPal and their fees and their rules and regulations...they are worse than the worst bank you could do business with.

Paypal has the discretion to decline to process any transaction for just about any reason under the sun, which is a serious problem for the non-pro seller and those who occasionally sell when they need a bit of extra cash. You never know if your deal is going to be sunk by Paypal -- leaving you with ebay seller fees you still must pay. Their latest outrage is the lengthy hold placed on funds sent by the buyer. So far it applies generally to infrequent sellers or those with less feedback. Paypal holds the funds for up to three weeks, meaning the seller must ship at his own expense even though the buyer has sent shipping funds via paypal. The hold can remain until delivery confirmation or even later. If the buyer doesn't post positive feedback, Paypal may still hold the payment! Meanwhile Paypal is making interest on that money, the seller cannot touch it.

This is nothing short of criminal IMO.

For a better idea of how bad it is, go to your Paypal account if you have one, locate their discussion boards and start reading. Ebay also has a Paypal discussion forum at its site which is also loaded with horror stories.

Ebay is like a pirate's cove, past which you may not sail without paying the ransom. And if you pay it, you are part of the problem!

[Batrachian]

"For example, a buyer buys 10 items and decides they don't want them. Then they beat these items up with a hammer to damage them, take photos as proof the items are damaged and Paypal refunds the money. As a seller you can't go back and change the feedback."

Why should they have to? Where they driven to this because sellers have a no refund policy? Since the buyer can't examine the item before purchase then the seller must have a no questions asked return policy. If they don't, even if that fact is clearly advertised, then they open themselves up to problems. Have a return policy and this won't happen.

As an honest buyer, I don't want to be held hostage for my feedback. What if I genuinly need to leave less than positive feedback? Then I get trashed even though I fulfilled all of my responsibility by having payed. The seller wants to get even. That isn't right. As for those scammers you mentioned, I think that falls under the heading of petty crime rather than a legitimate buyer/seller relatioship.

Your points have some validity, but I think that on balance this policy is right.

[I cannot think of a name]

“I have a bunch of eastern block vintage guns”

hmmm, know anybody that makes a firing pin for a CZ-52 that won't eventually break the tip off?

[Bernard Marx]

The people that make that site run are the BUYERS. Sure, the sellers are Ebay’s direct clients. But if buyers don’t think they are getting a fair shake on the site, guess what? Sellers won’t make money and Ebay won’t make money. Pretty simple.

There are plenty of crooked and clueless buyers using Ebay. Former sellers like me are staying away and that's why Ebay is showing decreased profitability. I'm finding other ways to market.

My selling experience there even before the new rules was that it was almost impossible to make a profit. Everything was tilted to the corporate bottom line and the buyer. Ebay and PayPal fees simply ate up any profitability the snipers left. Now it's even worse. No way Jose! I'm not going to do all that work and pay huge fees in order to simply give my stuff away and risk charge-backs! Most EBay buyers are fine but there are a few real snakes out there!

[Fu-fu2]

A relative who sells on ebay told me this past year was the worst since a high in 2006. Said the Paypal thing hurt because he sells antique/collectible items and about half of his buyers were paying with check/money order. Said he hopes someone will come up with a new site that will be what ebay used to be, that the alternatives like amazon, etsy, etc. don’t work for the antiques/collectible items that sell for whatever those interested are willing to pay for them.

[VastRWCon]

She is correct. I stopped listing items that I have to mail (aucion style) because people are just not bidding... the last few items I sold only went for pennies on the dollar. I have a ton of NASCAR stuff waiting to be listed but will wait it out until times are better.

[fireman15]

“hmmm, know anybody that makes a firing pin for a CZ-52 that won’t eventually break the tip off?”

I have never purchased from these guys, but they sell firing pins for the CZ-52 made “from quality steel and hardened, with firing pin return spring”.

http://www.harringtonproducts.com/firing-pins/