Posted on 04/03/2010 7:27:21 AM PDT by Libloather
Amish unaffected by new health law
‘Religious conscience’ covered in legislation.
By JON RUTTER, Staff Writer
Mar 28, 2010 00:18 EST
Most Americans will have to carry health insurance under new federal health care law or risk paying tax penalties — unless they get a "religious conscience" pass.
That's what the legislation says.
Lawmakers note that "religious conscience" refers to conservative Plain sect groups even though it doesn't specifically name them.
Members of Old Order Amish and Old Order Mennonite churches have long eschewed commercial insurance in favor of community fundraisers and church-run health plans.
The landmark health care overhaul signed last week by President Obama promises to eventually cover 32 million uninsured Americans — and impose hundreds of dollars of fines a year on individuals who don't buy insurance.
House Democrats capped a year-long political struggle Thursday when they passed a so-called "fix-it" measure containing minor revisions.
Currently, said Andrew Wimer, the spokesman for U.S. Rep. Joe Pitts, "It appears the Amish will be exempt on an individual basis."
On the other hand, Wimer said, the reform language has been "extremely vague" about entities such as Amish-owned businesses.
Under the legislation, businesses that don't offer health insurance as a benefit will have to pay penalties of $2,000 a year per full-time worker if they have more than 50 workers.
"There's a lot that's unclear at this point," Wimer said. He added that the fog is expected to lift as the legislation is enforced by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Internal Revenue Service.
The majority of the health insurance mandates don't kick in until 2014.
"It could be 2012, it could be 2014 until we see how the details work out," Wimer said.
The historic legislation has Amish people talking.
"Oh my yes" it does, exclaimed an Amish farmer from Paradise Township, who added that he's suspicious of the measure. "We'll wait and see."
As of last week, Wimer said, no Amish constituents had contacted Pitts' office with concerns.
Authorities on Plain sect culture say they doubt any big changes are in store for the more than 25,000 Amish children and adults in the area.
For one thing, said Donald B. Kraybill, author of "The Riddle of Amish Culture," "There are very, very few [Amish companies employing 50 or more people] in Lancaster County. The bulk of Amish businesses have 12 or fewer people."
For another, there's a long history of exempting Plain people from sweeping federal mandates. The precendent goes back to 1965, when self-employed Amish workers were allowed to opt out of the Social Security and Medicare programs.
In 1988, said Steven Nolt, a Goshen College professor of history who has written extensively about Plain communities, the exemption was extended to Amish employees who worked for Amish-owned companies.
Those in a small Amish subset —church members employed by "English" businesses — still are required to participate in the Social Security program.
"Where I live in northern Indiana," Nolt added, "there's actually a larger minority who fall into that category" because many Amish people work in factories that make recreational vehicles and modular homes.
Nolt and Wimer noted that the religious conscience phrase in the health care measure copies earlier exemption language in the Internal Revenue Service code.
"If you didn't know what it was talking about," Nolt said, "the wording in the bill doesn't make any sense."
There has also been confusion over who else might be eligible to skip health insurance.
Despite erroneous reports, said spokeswoman Allison Doty, "this exclusion has nothing to do with" the Church of Christ, Scientist. It applies only to established religious groups that pay for their own health care.
Congress is letting the Health and Human Services secretary decide how often people who are qualified for waivers should apply for them.
However, Nolt said, he expects Plain sect individuals to have to apply one time only, just like they do with Social Security.
Pennsylvania Attorney General Tom Corbett branded the health care measure unconstitutional and joined 12 other state attorneys general in suing to try to block it.
"There shouldn't be a lot of haggling" over the religious conscience question, Nolt said. "Whether there will be, I don't know."
I've already tried but he won't budge.
All he sees is the Amish taking a few bucks from him.
It's ridiculous and petty.
The Amish want NOTHING from the government and in no way shape or form do they want GOVERNMENT paved roads. He is imposing his secular views on them and the Amish are not guilty of what he is accusing them of. It is the government forcing it's will on them. I doubt that anyone will get through to him.
Typo correction:
The Allstate insured struck and KILLED the young boy.
Once again, stop hyperventilating. I understand the Amish viewpoints just fine, I lived in Amish country in the past. I am just pointing out that their unwillingness to adapt to rubber wheels - out of what I think is a rather misguided application of their views towards pridefulness - leads to a conflict with local goverments over the damage their steel wheels (and especially on their heavy farm equipment) does to roads. They can be highly selective with their application of modern technology, such as allowing motors to perform farm functions as long as a motor is not actually providing the propulsion for the device - which is why you see horses pulling a gas-powered hay baler for example, or an old Amish man with a long white beard running a weed wacker around the yard (yes, I have seen both). Yet they won’t allow something as simple as rubber wheels that would resolve the damages their vehicles cause to paved roadways.
ping ping
But are you allowed to use the Interwebs if you're Amish?
It comes down to the Amish being unwilling to allow rubber tires on vehicles out of their application of pridefulness to such. Which, IMO, is misguided, as it would resolve the conflict and they are highly selective of application of technology as it is - IMO they are simply being stubborn when they could resolve the problem rather easily in a manner that would not require more taxes on their part or anyone else’s part. But their decisions are costing local goverments money in paving costs, which are not insignificant.
It's easier to just run for Congress to become exempt from all the government mandates and rules. And the retirement benefits are the best.
There is a case developing in Michigan, being run by the Thomas More Center on behalf of a small group of prolifers, that will challenge the constitutionality of the current exemption language on grounds it favors one religion over another, thereby violating the Establishment Clause. If they win (in the sense of expanding the exemption to proper constitutional limits), anyone with a sincerely held prolife conviction should be able to get the exemption as well, due to the taxpayer funding of abortion in the bill (executive order notwithstanding). Talk about capsizing the boat!
Furthermore, there will shortly be another group raising a similar challenge here in Illinois. It is our hope that we can run it as a class action suit. We will begin to take names of interested parties in a Facebook group yet to be named. Stay tuned ...
Last chance to get it right!
Name calling doesn't work - “hyperventilating”. You're reacting like a liberal - don't do that worn out approach ... .
I see NO REASON for them to adopt to RUBBER WHEELS to make YOU happy. The Amish do NOT want rubber wheels. The Amish see this as a violation of their beliefs. I see NO REASON as to WHY they should chuck their beliefs to make you feel better about road damage. The Amish do NOT want the government paved roads to begin with and they should NOT need to rearrange their beliefs to accommodate your pet peeve about paved roads and changing to rubber wheels.
If some Amish are not measuring up to your expectations, then so be it! It something they handle in their community. It has nothing to do with you or I. Again, stop being so petty.
I am more concerned about how the Obama administration is running our country into the ground with debt than I am about changing the Amish faith to include rubber tires to ease road damage on GOVERNMENT roads that the Amish NEVER asked to have paved. You need to get over yourself and leave these fine people alone.
Have a nice day!
Once again, get over yourself. Roads are a public resource. If the Amish owned the roads, they would have the right to use them in any manner they see fit. But they don’t own the roads. You are the one acting like a liberal here, in that stating that someone’s beliefs allow them to do whatever they want, and that the damage they cause should be borne by others.
Some of us have enough brainpower to multitask.
It’s sickening on two counts: “. . . so everyone gets THEIR fair share.” The grammar matches the philosophy—progressive and wrong.
Amish country is much, much bigger than Pennsylvania. I do agree that PennDOT is a bunch of corrupt a-holes, however.
Because of my recent Amish conversion, I've had to shoot my television. I sure will miss hearing Hussein EVERY STINKIN' DAY!
Up until one year ago I lived in the Amish country in Indiana (Mishawaka). Absolutely no road damage caused by those carriages and buggies. Perhaps in the state or area you live road construction isn't up to par of other areas.
It’s the farm equipment that tends to cause the real damage, when they move it along roads.
Me: I am more concerned about how the Obama administration
You: Some of us have enough brainpower to multitask.
Me: No, this is outright petty. You have no sense of prority or what the facts are. The Amish do NOT want the government paved roads. There is something wrong with you .... .
I'm now Amish and I'm doing it. (Uh, oh. Is that TMI?)
BTW, we put down “American” for race.
There is no way ILLEGALS should be encouraged to fill this out. It makes me sick.
I guess you missed the /s at the end of the post. In Indiana the Amish are widely accepted. They pay federal, state and local taxes just like everyone else...utilize little in the way of resources and normally generate revenues for the local municipalities.
As far as OTR drivers, I simply couldn't do it. Way too much government regulation and other BS. What I hear on the Midnight Trucker Show this current federal administration is making it even tougher.
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