Army Report: GIs Outgunned in Afghanistan

Politics Daily ^ | 04/2/10 | David Wood

[mad_as_he$$]

Firearms
M1895 Colt-Browning machine gun
FN Browning M1899/M1900
Colt Model 1900
Colt Model 1902
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer (.38 ACP)
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless (.32 ACP)
Colt Model 1905
Remington Model 8 (1906), a long recoil semi-automatic rifle
Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket (.25 ACP)
Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless (.380 ACP)
FN Model 1910
U.S. Model 1911 pistol
Colt Woodsman pistol
Winchester Model 1885 falling block single shot rifle
Winchester Model 1886 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1887 lever-action repeating shotgun
Winchester Model 1890 slide-action repeating rifle (.22)
Winchester Model 1892 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1894 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1895 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1897 pump-action repeating shotgun
Browning Auto-5 long recoil semi-automatic shotgun
U.S. Model 1917 water-cooled machine gun
Model 1919 air-cooled machine gun
Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) of 1917
Browning M2 .50-caliber heavy machine gun of 1921
Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle
Remington Model 24 semi-auto rifle (.22) Also produced by Browning Firearms (as the SA-22) and several others
The Browning Hi-Power, the last pistol that John Browning developed
The Browning Superposed over/under shotgun was designed by John Browning in 1922 and entered production in 1931

[mad_as_he$$]

Firearms
M1895 Colt-Browning machine gun
FN Browning M1899/M1900
Colt Model 1900
Colt Model 1902
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer (.38 ACP)
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless (.32 ACP)
Colt Model 1905
Remington Model 8 (1906), a long recoil semi-automatic rifle
Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket (.25 ACP)
Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless (.380 ACP)
FN Model 1910
U.S. Model 1911 pistol
Colt Woodsman pistol
Winchester Model 1885 falling block single shot rifle
Winchester Model 1886 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1887 lever-action repeating shotgun
Winchester Model 1890 slide-action repeating rifle (.22)
Winchester Model 1892 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1894 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1895 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1897 pump-action repeating shotgun
Browning Auto-5 long recoil semi-automatic shotgun
U.S. Model 1917 water-cooled machine gun
Model 1919 air-cooled machine gun
Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) of 1917
Browning M2 .50-caliber heavy machine gun of 1921
Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle
Remington Model 24 semi-auto rifle (.22) Also produced by Browning Firearms (as the SA-22) and several others
The Browning Hi-Power, the last pistol that John Browning developed
The Browning Superposed over/under shotgun was designed by John Browning in 1922 and entered production in 1931

[eyeamok]

All of this is by design, This is a POLICE Action under the guise of the United nations, we are NOT SUPPOSED to win, we are there just for show. If it was really a war like WWII, that area would be called The Vast Sea of Glass.

[mcshot]

I’ve noticed that on the War Porn ping to weaselzippers.

[Taxman]

May have already been answered, but what is up with this?

“Our troops have been forced to build tiny,open firebases in the fishbowl bottoms of valleys - surrounded by tree studded hills and mountains.”

Even I, a retired Naval Aviator, know better than to give the height advantage away!

[maine-iac7]

See the links at my post #78, for one example. There are many more -

also see my posts # 54 and 55.

Our troops have been under incredible disadvantages - CRIMINAL disadvantages - and it has multiplied under this regime. I do not know how obama dares show his face to our troops.

I notice in his fly by to Afghanistan this past week - his handlers evidently decided not to show the troops faces/reactions. They showed only one short video to my knowledge - and it was a tight camera shot, so close you could only see the face of one soldier in the background...who happened to be black, but decidedly no smile.

Quite a contrast from the times Bush visited the troops. The loved him as their CIC. They despise their present one. I believe one of the reasons he was - finally - willing to send more over there is because he wants as few of our loyal, oath takers in country.

WAtch for "Restrpo" - per post 54/55 - and Sebastian's book: "WAR"

[Favor Center]

A match load has to be supersonic at those distances. Our match loads tend to run “hot” compared to commercial 223. The mk 262 load developed for DMR use IS a match load using 77 grain Sierra Match Kings and is similar or exactly (service depending) what the service teams use across the course and is very “hot”. M118LR is a match load too. Both are used for “man killing”.

We certainly don’t load them down so far the weapon barely functions. Target pistol is NOT like target rifle. Yes, we have known distances. You will have the SAME problems with wind with the 762 NATO and the 556.

[smokingfrog]

I think it’s 4th Cav Regiment

[sig226]

It has its uses, one of which is that it is very easy to train to proficiency/confidence. The M-14 is a much more powerful rifle, but it limits the amount of gear and ammunition the soldier can carry.

The original design for the M-16 was chambered in 7.62. Armalite still makes it, Bushmaster made it, LWRC and DPMS make them. Replacement cost pretty much eliminates the possibility of replacing the 5.56 rifles with 7.62 models. They played around with using the 6.8mm SPC cartridge, which is a short .270 that will function through lower receiver of the M-4 / M-16. But they wouldn’t make the switch, even though they only had to replace less than half of the rifle. I think cost was the factor. If they wouldn’t do that, they certainly won’t change the whole thing.

I also find the Major’s assessment of World War I equipment to be out of line. I had a 1917 Eddystone, the primary rifle used by the Doughboys. It was a great rifle, accurate and fun to shoot. It was also a five shot bolt action that loaded through stripper clips. It had a ladder sight and it weighed a ton. It was superior to the M-16 only in terms of bullet energy. It was larger and heavier. The ammunition weight reduced the number of rounds that could be carried. Recoil was significant. It didn’t bother me, but there are plenty of people who react poorly to recoil. It had to be taken off target to reload, a massive mistake in combat.

If he was referring to the infamous “walking fire” tactic with the Browning Automatic Rifle, he should go read the accounts of numerous soldiers who were ordered to fight that way, even after they demonstrated that they couldn’t hit anything using the method.

[El Gato]

. Expanding rounds > non-expanding rounds. The question that needs to be asked is, why aren’t we using the most effective ammunition?

First of all, while the 5.56 rounds, either the old 55gr or the new 62gr ones, don't expand, they do yaw when they hit flesh. That results in a nasty wound channel, and a large temporary cavity, which may crush or otherwise damage tissue. Second, exanding rounds are banned by treaty. Even the Soviets did not use them (but the 7.62x39 and 5.54x39 rounds they do use, also yaw in flesh).

[karnage]

Very accurate right out of the box. Rifle shoots much better than this particular rifleman.

[Armedanddangerous]

Why don’t they just start issuing M-14s to those troops? Or at least that new Knight’s Armament 7.62x51 sniper rifle?

[Armedanddangerous]

I think the Hajjis are now mostly using the 5.45 AK-74s and the dragonov or SVD sniper rifles.

[El Gato]

The only M-14s still in the Army inventory are probably those in museums and with units like the Old Guard which uses them for ceremonial purposes. Most of the M-14s were probably destroyed after they were fully replaced by the M-16.

Many M-14s were destroyed, but many are also in use by "designated marksmen" at the squad level. The Navy also has a bunch for shipboard use. (including as line throwers, but not just such "beneign" uses).

Some use the M-21, which is an upgraded M-14, semi-auto only

The Navy/Marines now have some Mark 11 Model 0 :

Meanwhile the Army has some M110 rifles:

The latter two are versions of the Knights Armament SR-25 in 7.62x51. Which in turn is derived from the Armalight AR-10, also in 7.62x51, which was basis for the AR-15/M-16 line.

[Armedanddangerous]

the G-3 style rifles

The 308 hk-417

The Knights Armament rifle

and of course the M-14.

If they just let a contract for several thousand HK-417s or the M-14 then this is no longer a problem.

Of course, they could just ressurect the FN-FAL.

[Armedanddangerous]

they make them in vero beach florida.

[Armedanddangerous]

they could always adopt the barrett 6.8 rifle.

[Mr Rogers]

No, it isn’t.

See how easy a response is, if you make it without any facts or thought?

[Favor Center]

The stock rifles usually need a bedding job, trigger work, and a heavy contour barrel to perform well. They require frequent rebedding work to keep them going, too. There are good reasons they are pretty much gone from competitive service rifle shooting.

[morkfork]

MN91/30s. Can reach out and touch someone. $4k = 1 gun or $4k =40 guns with ammo! Hmmm......

Yea, I’d ship one of mine to a soldier in Afganistan. That is, is I had one.