Posted on 04/05/2010 5:10:18 AM PDT by marktwain
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — Two bills moving through the Missouri Legislature would relax the rules concerning the use of guns in certain situations.
The Missouri House has passed a bill, HB1692, that would allow prosecutors and circuit attorneys to carry firearms into the courthouse if they have completed a firearms safety training course. The House has one vote left to go on another bill, HB1787, that would allow lawmakers to carry guns into the Capitol.
Both bills would also expand the state’s “Castle Doctrine” law to allow an owner of private property, including a farm or business, to use deadly force against an intruder. Currently the law states that an intruder must be in a dwelling to justify lethal force by a property owner.
In addition, both bills would lower the minimum age to obtain a concealed carry license from 23 to 21. Proposals to expand the doctrine, lower the eligibility age and to allow concealed weapons on college campuses were unsuccessful in the Legislature last year.
An overwhelming majority of the House, 130-21, approved HB1692, which is scheduled for a Senate committee hearing on Tuesday. An amended version of HB1787 was approved 125-19, and could receive a final vote by the House this week.
The St. Joseph delegation in the House — Dr. Rob Schaaf, a Republican, and Pat Conway and Martin Rucker, both Democrats — approved the measures.
(Excerpt) Read more at stjoenews.net ...
The higher age requirement has always puzzled me since so many other states were already at 21 when MO passed their law. Guess it just proves that politics is the art of the possible and the value of incrementalism.
” “What if someone comes to your doorstep to ask for directions?” Mr. Findley said. “
what if the easter bunny came up behind him and shoved a poison egg up his ass
what if... what if... what if
When I was a kid in Kansas City we had an older lady a couple of doors down, that shot and killed an intruder as he kicked in her front door. He fell back on to the porch, when the police showed up he told her to pull his feet into the house, while he went to get a pen. (at least that was her story) She suffered no legal trouble at all.
So if you rent, rather than own your dwelling, you have no right to use deadly force? If you are at your elderly parents' home, you cannot shoot an intruder wearing a hockey mask and carrying an axe?
How about, "Any person legally entitled to own and carry a firearm may use it at any time and in any location to deter a crime in progress?"
I see one of the future opportunities for gun rights as being the encouragement of the States and counties to permit more ranges being built. But I would go a step further.
Cities are hesitant to zone for gun rights, but there may be a good way to alleviate their concerns, provide for gun users, and even local law enforcement. An underground, industrial park gun range.
Industrial parks have much more latitude in zoning, yet much of what they do is warehousing, which is an expensive use of a large area.
But building a very large gun range - entertainment facility underneath a warehouse, could both offset the cost of the warehouse, and provide a premium quality gun range for city dwellers and local law enforcement organizations.
Advantages include air conditioning, both for temperature control and to vent smoke and fumes; lead capture to prevent soil contamination; gun cleaning, classroom, and even noise insulated nursery facilities for very young children. Gun dealers can subcontract space to sell ammo, parts and equipment. Likely a refreshment stand as well.
Being in town means that school gun clubs can go there to practice, police officers can perform mandatory qualifications much closer to work, etc.
Most importantly, it helps to reintroduce cities to legal gun culture, by providing a social watering hole for gun owners and learners.
Great idea- which would be roundly opposed by all the usual suspects, who would tie the approval process up for years with lawsuits.
No, Joes, in MO a tent, a rented hotel room, your camper even your auto are considered “dewllings” and thusly are “castles”.
One must insure they are (reasonably) being threatened with lethal force before engaging.
The MO castle doctrine provides for the use of (lethal) force against someone who is uninivited, or if being uninvited after the fact, refuses to leave a place where you the householder has every right to order such person to depart.... No torrent of blood in the living room as the anti’s predicted. Very few incidences of the latter type situation, several of the former, of course.
mo.gov-then statutes will get you to the actual secition if interested.
No, Joes, in MO a tent, a rented hotel room, your camper even your auto are considered “dewllings” and thusly are “castles”.
One must insure they are (reasonably) being threatened with lethal force before engaging.
The MO castle doctrine provides for the use of (lethal) force against someone who is uninivited, or if being uninvited after the fact, refuses to leave a place where you the householder has every right to order such person to depart.... No torrent of blood in the living room as the anti’s predicted. Very few incidences of the latter type situation, several of the former, of course.
mo.gov-then statutes will get you to the actual secition if interested.
There was no opposition appearing in either House or Senate Committee hearings to the bills. I was sitting in that hearing on the House side.
But the Jackson Co Sheriff was concerned about additional costs to their budget for staffing if the CCW permits were extended an additional 2 years, from 3 to 5 yrs. Although the Sheriff is very favorable of the citizens right to self defense and CCW. Finances can be worked out.
Here in Columbia, MO, two thugs broke down the door of an apartment
in the middle of the night. This was soon after the Castle doctrine
was made law.
The renter blew both of them away. And was cleared by the local police.
Happy Ending!
“But the Jackson Co Sheriff was concerned about additional costs to their budget for staffing if the CCW permits were extended an additional 2 years, from 3 to 5 yrs.”
It is hard to see how this would increase the need for staff, as the number of applicants would have to increase by 66% for the per year number of applicants to remain the same.
The concern was that less annual traffic for permits would reduce income that pays for staff.
“The concern was that less annual traffic for permits would reduce income that pays for staff.”
The legislature was reducing their power to milk the constitutional cow for cash.
I was at the hearing. i just posted the Jackson Co sheriff’s concern about unintended financial consequences.
Apparently the concern was resolved in the fine print of amendments, if added.
Hewrre are stats that display the changes in MO CCW rates over time-DEC 2008 to MAR 2010. Population data is from teh US Census Bureau, CCW numbers from MO Dept of Revenue CCW report by Couty, provided by the MO AG office to me over the last two years.
MO CW rates and %Change 2008-2008
County 08 CCW# %CCW 09 CCW # %CCW 08-09 %Chng
Adair 233 0.93% 335 1.33% 43.78%
Andrew 129 0.76% 319 1.87% 147.29%
Atchison 62 1.03% 87 1.46% 40.32%
Audrain 230 0.88% 349 1.33% 51.74%
Barry 404 1.11% 606 1.66% 50.00%
Barton 80 0.64% 139 1.13% 73.75%
Bates 214 1.25% 355 2.07% 65.89%
Benton 561 3.06% 846 4.63% 50.80%
Bolliger 132 1.10% 204 1.72% 54.55%
Boone 1448 0.94% 2425 1.55% 67.47%
Buchanan 793 0.89% 1254 1.40% 58.13%
Butler 780 1.88% 1128 2.72% 44.62%
Caldwell 147 1.59% 195 2.11% 32.65%
Callaway 557 1.28% 897 2.05% 61.04%
Camden 988 2.43% 1458 3.56% 47.57%
Cape Girardeau 927 1.27% 1435 1.94% 54.80%
Carroll 113 1.16% 157 1.63% 38.94%
Carter 103 1.75% 170 2.90% 65.05%
Cass 1474 1.50% 2616 2.62% 77.48%
Cedar 175 1.28% 248 1.82% 41.71%
Chariton 107 1.38% 155 2.02% 44.86%
Christian 920 1.22% 1599 2.05% 73.80%
Clark 62 0.86% 102 1.43% 64.52%
Clay 2305 1.07% 3708 1.69% 60.87%
Clinton 349 1.65% 540 2.55% 54.73%
Cole 886 1.19% 1552 2.07% 75.17%
Cooper 213 1.21% 308 1.76% 44.60%
Crawford 381 1.59% 582 2.43% 52.76%
Dade 149 2.01% 194 2.64% 30.20%
Dallas 332 1.97% 525 3.11% 58.13%
Daviess 118 1.49% 167 2.12% 41.53%
Dekalb 163 1.33% 239 1.94% 46.63%
Dent 198 1.30% 365 2.37% 84.34%
Douglas 188 1.40% 303 2.24% 61.17%
Dunklin 377 1.20% 491 1.57% 30.24%
Franklin 1366 1.35% 2381 2.34% 74.30%
Gasconade 218 1.43% 304 2.01% 39.45%
Gentry 50 0.81% 87 1.42% 74.00%
Greene 2845 1.07% 4871 1.80% 71.21%
Grundy 144 1.42% 215 2.12% 49.31%
Harrison 132 1.49% 162 1.83% 22.73%
Henry 287 1.29% 428 1.94% 49.13%
Hickory 199 2.20% 281 3.13% 41.21%
Holt 56 1.14% 108 2.23% 92.86%
Howard 133 1.34% 198 1.99% 48.87%
Howell 518 1.33% 825 2.09% 59.27%
Iron 188 1.90% 259 2.63% 37.77%
Jackson 4265 0.64% 7432 1.11% 74.26%
Jasper 881 0.75% 1488 1.25% 68.90%
Jefferson 2592 1.19% 4405 2.01% 69.95%
Johnson 777 1.49% 1204 2.31% 54.95%
Knox 45 1.12% 58 1.45% 28.89%
LaClede 691 1.95% 1025 2.87% 48.34%
Lafayette 371 1.13% 522 1.57% 40.70%
Lawrence 332 0.88% 554 1.46% 66.87%
Lewis 91 0.91% 165 1.67% 81.32%
Lincoln 832 1.58% 1409 2.60% 69.35%
Linn 145 1.15% 208 1.67% 43.45%
Livingston 210 1.48% 316 2.22% 50.48%
Macon 192 1.23% 339 2.16% 76.56%
Madison 112 0.91% 176 1.42% 57.14%
Maries 141 1.56% 196 2.18% 39.01%
Marion 288 1.02% 424 1.50% 47.22%
McDonald 221 0.97% 366 1.62% 65.61%
Mercer 79 2.24% 100 2.82% 26.58%
Miller 368 1.48% 609 2.43% 65.49%
Mississippi 138 1.02% 198 1.48% 43.48%
Moniteau 190 1.26% 298 1.97% 56.84%
Monroe 84 0.92% 158 1.74% 88.10%
Montgomery 125 1.06% 224 1.91% 79.20%
Morgan 311 1.49% 464 2.22% 49.20%
New Madrid 304 1.73% 439 2.52% 44.41%
Newton 523 0.93% 913 1.62% 74.57%
Nodaway 112 0.51% 190 0.86% 69.64%
Oregon 183 1.78% 295 2.88% 61.20%
Osage 103 0.76% 209 1.54% 102.91%
Ozark 173 1.87% 210 2.27% 21.39%
Pemiscot 193 1.04% 276 1.51% 43.01%
Perry 110 0.59% 235 1.25% 113.64%
Pettis 436 1.06% 653 1.58% 49.77%
Phelps 699 1.66% 993 2.37% 42.06%
Pike 200 1.08% 307 1.66% 53.50%
Platte 1048 1.22% 1576 1.81% 50.38%
Polk 593 1.95% 868 2.83% 46.37%
Pulaski 652 1.46% 1108 2.47% 69.94%
Putnam 54 1.11% 67 1.39% 24.07%
Ralls 214 2.18% 286 2.91% 33.64%
Randolph 357 1.39% 600 2.32% 68.07%
Ray 282 1.20% 490 2.09% 73.76%
Reynolds 142 2.22% 178 2.80% 25.35%
Ripley 265 1.97% 363 2.70% 36.98%
Saline 329 1.46% 435 1.94% 32.22%
Schuyler 38 0.92% 44 1.06% 15.79%
Scotland 24 0.50% 43 0.90% 79.17%
Scott 479 1.18% 720 1.77% 50.31%
Shannon 119 1.41% 184 2.18% 54.62%
Shelby 40 0.62% 71 1.12% 77.50%
St. Charles 3015 0.86% 5429 1.53% 80.07%
St. Clair 120 1.29% 187 2.04% 55.83%
St. Francois 568 0.90% 918 1.44% 61.62%
St. Genevieve 168 0.95% 256 1.45% 52.38%
St. Louis City 1590 0.45% 2535 0.72% 59.43%
St. Louis Co 5714 0.58% 10633 1.07% 86.09%
Stoddard 343 1.16% 574 1.95% 67.35%
Stone 445 1.41% 736 2.33% 65.39%
Sullivan 101 1.52% 153 2.32% 51.49%
Taney 415 0.88% 695 1.44% 67.47%
Texas 430 1.75% 704 2.86% 63.72%
Vernon 226 1.13% 378 1.89% 67.26%
Warren 381 1.22% 792 2.47% 107.87%
Washington 259 1.06% 420 1.69% 62.16%
Wayne 214 1.69% 363 2.87% 69.63%
Webster 357 0.98% 711 1.92% 99.16%
Worth 13 0.64% 30 1.51% 130.77%
Wright 174 0.94% 328 1.76% 88.51%
Mo State 58120 0.98% 96105 1.62% 65.36%
Note that MO had 58K CCW endorsements in 2008, now (as of Mar 2010) there are over 98K, a 65 % increase since DEC 2008; MO population is about 9.9 million. State Wide about 16 people per thousand could be carrying a legally concealed weapon. The MO CCW system has been inplace since 2005 (issuing endorsements to those residents that meet criteria for CCW).
I have asked teh AG offcie to compare CCW rates/criminal behavior with the population but they have consistently stated they do not have the ability to do so.
Best;
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