Posted on 04/05/2010 3:13:26 PM PDT by wagglebee
I’m 100% against murder,
but I’m a “libertarian”
and don’t believe in imposing my beliefs on others...
/bigsarc
“Then what EXACTLY makes it a human being?”
Birth, or as your Bible puts it, “breath.”
Why do you say things about people that you do not know. If you really want to know why I’m opposed to abortion and would see it ended if possible (though I know it won’t happen in this world in our lifetime) you can read the article I referenced.
http://usabig.com/iindv/articles_stand/soccult/abortion.php
Of course you don’t have to read it, but please do not ask me questions I’ve fully answered there.
“Show us from Scripture where it says that abortion IS NOT a serious offense. Show us where it distinguishes abortion from murder.”
I did not say abortion is not considered a serious offense, I said the Bible does not consider it murder. I do not need to show you, Moses has already done that. Of course, if you refuse to read ....
I know what you are trying to pull. I could do the same thing. “Show us from Scripture where it says abortion is murder. Show us where it say an unborn child is a human being.” I’m not asking that, of course. It would be dishonest.
Hank
Actually, you were.
I was not quoting it as authority, it was rhetorical for a principle, that government involvement in anything is always a problem.
That makes you an anarchist, not a conservative.
If you decide that government ought to have the power to decide medical issues, and what a woman must or must not do with regard to her unborn child, you’ve accepted that principle, and have no argument when the government decides a woman who already has one or two children must abort any additional children, and you have no argument against ObamaCare.
It's amazing the dedication you show to abortion.
Wow. Didn’t expect such rudeness and hostility from agreeing with you.
I think I’ll decline to respond in like and just let your assumptions speak for themselves.
I met Cal Thomas at a crisis pregnancy fundraiser. I was active in the program and supported the program as it successfully grew.
I’ve demonstrated outside of more than one clinic, one of which is now closed.
I’ve been hassled by the police for sitting in my car across the street from a clinic because the staff said they felt threatened by my presence. I was doing nothing but silently praying for the protesters in front of the clinic.
I’ve actually done more than most of the keyboard commandos here. Most are NATO...no action, talk only.
But the bottom line is that there is NOTHING one can do to stop a woman who has made up her mind.
The Bible doesn’t support life at conception.
Adam became a living soul with his first breath and leviticus says that the live of the flesh is in the blood.
The Bible doesn’t support a miscarriage (another name for abortion) as murder.
The penalty for causing a miscarriage was not the same as for a murder.
Funny about the fanatical subset of pro lifers here is that one can hate abortion, never encourage it, hope to never see it happen, yet still be labelled pro abortion by zealots.
They don’t mind heaping condemnation on women who are making the hardest and sometimes worst decisions of their lives.
Yeah, that’s Christian compassion, isn’t it? /s
A living, growing fetus inside a mother is every bit as human before birth as after. It contains the same DNA it did at conception.
And you think that breathing makes it human?
just..... wow......
Such total denial of everything scientific and moral is staggering.
I take it then, that if someone shoots a pregnant woman in the stomach and the mother lives but the baby dies, you don’t think that the shooter should be charged with murder. After all, he didn’t kill a human being, he just injured one. The non-human lump of flesh just ceased it’s life functions, right?
WRONG!!!!. Miscarriage is NOT murder.
There is a world of difference between a miscarriage (accidental loss of the child) and the deliberate murder of a baby.
So, a person on a respirator is not a human being?
Why do you say things about people that you do not know. If you really want to know why I’m opposed to abortion and would see it ended if possible
NOTHING you have said leads me to believe that you are actually opposed to abortion.
I did not say abortion is not considered a serious offense, I said the Bible does not consider it murder. I do not need to show you, Moses has already done that. Of course, if you refuse to read ....
In other words, you don't actually have any proof. The Bible DOES NOT distinguish abortion from murder.
A miscarriage is the Divine deciding to take the life at that time. This is something that is ONLY within His authority, not within ours.
“when I knit you together in the womb, I knew you”
“the Lord detests hands that shed innocent blood”
Pretty plain.
You can call me all the names you want but it seems to me that your religious zealotry has allowed you to misrepresent God’s word to suit your own agenda.
Are you getting your definitions of life and murder from the Bible?
Can you explain how the commandment can prohibit murder but God tells David to slay all, even women and children?
Or how the penalty for causing a miscarriage was not the same as murdering?
Or what about Jehu? I can only imagine what you’d call him and he was obeying God’s commands.
Adam became a living soul when he began breathing.
Leviticus directly says that the life of the flesh is in the blood. There is no blood at conception, so how can life begin at conception? At least Biblically speaking?
Any chance you can support that with a Bible verse?
WHO has the RIGHT to take human life? God does. Who are you to question Him? Your question explains itself.
Agreed. Of the three parties involved in the act, the baby is the most innocent.
Note that I am not blaming the victim here.
Not so, Hank.
The scripture says it "leapt with JOY." The joy was because it was in the presence of the expectant Mother of the Lord, who was carrying Jesus at the time.
In short, the BABY in her womb had awareness, realization, and spirituality. These are all characteristics of humans.
Fully human.
Age is marked from availability to be marked. They aren't likely to circumcize in utero, are they?
Age being counted from birth is no indication whatsoever of anything other than time of birth. No different than your counting the years since you graduated from high school. That doesn't prove you were an unintelligent mass before that point.
So far as the death penalty for causing an abortion, again you are wrong. The entire scripture says:
Exodust 21: 22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
The issue of premature birth with or without injury refers to THE CHILD. Otherwise, it makes no sense. If she's giving birth, OF COURSE, she is still OK. If you cause injury to the child, then it's "life for life....eye for eye", etc.
The law regarding deaths of already born persons is given elsewhere (numbers 35, for example)
This passage is specifically targeted at the unique case of a pregnant woman and the child being carried by her. If the woman is stricken and dies, it is covered under other law, as mentioned, regarding accidental and intentional taking of life.
Again, you greatly err. John, Jeremiah, Jesus, Job are all mentioned biblically from their in utero days and all are always regarded as fully human. How could it be otherwise, really, when you think about it?
So if God says it is ok then that is good enough for you?
I mean, who are YOU to question God?
This has long been a favored argument of the abortionists.
It comes entirely from a single verse in the Bible, Genesis 2:7 when God breathes the Breath of Life into Adam's face and Adam becomes a living soul.
However, the abortionists overlook one very important fact and that is that Adam was CREATED EX NIHILO and God breathing the Breath of Life is a SINGULAR EVENT. God DOES NOT do this for anyone else, Adam's humanity passed to Eve WITHOUT God breathing in her face and it has subsequently passed to all of us without this as well.
Show me where I’ve been questioning God’s will.
Nice try to turn it around like that.
If God has ruled on it, man should simply abide by that ruling. So, yes, if God says it’s OK, then I, as decorated dust, have no opinion other than that.
Now, where is it biblically stated that God is OK with
a person, on his/her own deciding with no divine direction
to kill an unborn baby?
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
“Actually, you were.”
So now you read minds.
That makes you an anarchist, not a conservative.
Well I’m glad you didn’t tag me with that vile term “conservative” at least. As for anarchist, think what you like, though I’m not an arnarchist, I’m an independent individualist.
http://usabig.com/atnmst/jrnl_ii.php?art=89
“It’s amazing the dedication you show to abortion.”
Is name calling and false accusation a new Christian virtue. Has “though shalt not bear false witness” been revoked. I didn’t know.
Hank
Of course, if God decides to destroy a particular people it is a judgement and is not murder. God is a GOD, after all, and He knows best about those things. It is really no different than a shepherd deciding which sheep to cull from the herd.
How does the shepherd to the culling? Based on what?
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