Group: Army symbol is religious, should be changed

AP ^ | 4/29/2010 | Dan Elliott

[markomalley]

A religious watchdog group says a cross and motto on the emblem of an Army hospital in Colorado violate the constitutional requirement for separation of church and state and should be removed.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation asked the Army this week to change the emblem of Evans Army Community Hospital at Fort Carson, outside Colorado Springs.

The emblem says "Pro deo et humanitate" or "For God and humanity."

Fort Carson commanders will review the complaint, Lt. Col. Steve Wollman said.

He said the emblem had been approved by the Army Institute of Heraldry and has been in use since 1969.

Wollman said references to doctors serving God and humanity date to the time of Hippocrates, a pre-Christianity Greek physician.

Wollman said the cross, which has a pointed base, is both an emblem of mercy and a symbol dating to the Middle Ages, when pilgrims carried a cross with a spiked base to mark the site of a camp.

[donna]

To be fair to God, we really should stop pretending that He is welcome in these organization and places.

It’s only the sad truth.

[JoyjoyfromNJ]

That Military Religious Freedom Foundation is the group that demanded, on behalf of muslims in the military, that Franklin Graham and the entire National Day of PRayer Task Force be removed from the event this year at the Pentagon. There’s a thread on FR about that. The founder of the MRFF is virulently anti-Christian.

[july4thfreedomfoundation]

There is no such thing as a constitutional requirement for separation of church and state.

There is freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

I believe the term “separation of church and state” was first used by Thomas Jefferson in the early 1800’s in a letter he answered to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut. This Baptist group had originally written Jefferson and asked him if they were free to practice their religion in the new American Republic.

[ilovesarah2012]

I have seen little bits of Beck’s Founding Fathers shows. Last night I caught a little of Keith Olbermann as he was making fun of Glen. Olbermann really is just a liar. I am willing to listen to other points of view but not when they lie. Chrissy Matthews is the same way - lies to suit him and they never have anyone on to present the other side. No wonder MSNBC is tanking.

[FrankR]

It's been a while, but the way I heard it was, the phrase "separation of church and state" was only mentioned in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, and is nowhere to be found in the Constitution. I'm sure - based on the history of the Church in England - that the "separation" part was meant to keep the government out of religion. The ACLU and other america based commies have said it so many times, now everyone thinks it's in the Constitution.

Now, unless the Constitution has been amended lately, I don't see where the legality of all these anti-Christian lawsuits is coming from.

As I understand it, we have complete freedom of religion, with the government being forbidden to "establish" a religion. I fail to see how that patch, or the inclusion of "Saint" in front a hospital name establishes religion.

How about people named "St. John"...will they be sued and forced to change that to "Mohammed"?

This is strictly ridiculous; they think if they can "ban" all things Christian that we'll run over to "islam" for solace? Well, obamuzzie probably would like that, but it ain't gonna happen...Christians don't run airplanes into buildings, behead people of other religions, or shoot 30 people on an Army base.

>

"What do you think his presidency is all about...it's more than just Socialism."

[hsalaw]

The motto of Fort Carson’s 10th Combat Support Hospital is “IN CRUCE VINCAM” which translates to “I Shall Conquer By The Cross”.

That is absolutely fascinating. I'm sure there's a martial aspect to it, but the faith aspect is that by Christ's sacrifice on the cross, we have received forgiveness of our sins and the promise of everlasting life - thus conquering sin and death.

[givemELL]

Yes, and, hospitals might as well be renamed....Medical Pound....and, release might be achieved, after treatment, only if someone wants you back for performance of some particular job, duty. Oligarchical socialism can really get efficient.

In the very early seventies, the “personnel” sign was present in administrative offices all over the English speaking world...in just one year, “human resources”, that cultural Marxist term, was prevalent and remains ubiquitous. I see the term “Personnel” only in old black and white movies now.

The military probably will fold on this Christian symbol issue too. It would be encouraging if it contested the issue. But then, military chiefs, such as Adm. Mullen, have too many “worries” to even contemplate such issues.

On a larger scale of issue..knee jerk may be in and strategic planning out. Without strategic planning it is difficult to explain to the nation why we are where we are and what the objective is. We do not even have a “Domino” theory offered. Our leaders say only things like “Pulling out will lead to catastrophe!!” Aside from non-visible strategic planning, no post-conflict planning was even asked for in Iraq, and, in the cases of withdrawal from Iraq and Afganistan, withdrawals are always more problematic than entrances and require planning consistent with strategic objectives for successful accomplishment.

The health of the US military may be judged by this symbol issue as being unhealthily mis-guided, as the military is not defending its historical integrity.

[CIB-173RDABN]

"...constitutional requirement for separation of church and state..."

---

There is no separation of "church and state" in the Constitution. It does forbid the creation of a state religion (such as the Church of England).

[Yo-Yo]

Change it to a crescent, and the objections will disappear.

[Ro_Thunder]

A religious watchdog group says a cross and motto on the emblem of an Army hospital in Colorado violate the constitutional requirement for separation of church and state and should be removed.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation asked the Army this week to change the emblem of Evans Army Community Hospital at Fort Carson, outside Colorado Springs.

The emblem says “Pro deo et humanitate” or “For God and humanity.”

Pound sand. There is not constitutional requirement for separation of church & state.

[houeto]

How did we let this happen???

By having total apathy towards the machinations of government. Can you spell American Idol? NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB? Sony Playstation? etc., etc. and on and on ad nauseum...

[rfreedom4u]

Just tell the idiots that it isn’t a cross. It’s a lower case letter T which stands for treatment.

[1010RD]

violate the constitutional requirement for separation of church and state

Isn't one. Case closed.

[RonF]

The Danbury Baptists had written Thomas Jefferson to complain about the fact that they were required by the State of Connecticut to contribute (via their taxes) to the established church in Connecticut. This was before the 14th Amendment was passed, so while the Federal government could not establish a religion the States were still free to do so. Although they Baptists were reimbursed for the amount of the contribution if they asked, they thought it was wrong. Thomas Jefferson wrote back a letter sympathizing with them and in that context used the phrase “separation of Church and State”.

[himno hero]

Yup, erase the history and identity of America and replace it with new age islamo marxist anti American ideals, slogans and symbolism.

[july4thfreedomfoundation]

Thank-you for clarifying.

But “separation of church and state”....those words....are not in the Constitution, correct?

The libs want “In God We Trust” removed from our coins, too.

[RonF]

Correct. They are not.

The language of the First Amendment says that Congress will not pass any laws regarding the establishment of a religion. That means that the Federal government (and now the states) may not create an established religion. An established religion is one that is favored above others through financial and other support that is not available to other religions. For example, the Church of England is the established religion of Great Britain. It receives financial support from the State. The 26 most senior Bishops (including the Archbishops of Canterbury and York) sit in the House of Lords and vote on legislation as a right of their position in the Church. That is an established religion. We do not have an established religion in the U.S. Putting up a cross on public land to commemorate war dead or “In God We Trust” on our money isn’t creating an established religion either.

[MS.BEHAVIN]

Mikey Weinstein can go take a flying leap!

[Katarina]

What a sick jerk this mikey is!

[Pyro7480]

It still has that symbol.