Posted on 05/14/2010 11:02:15 PM PDT by Smokeyblue
Yes, that's what I'm saying.
As you may know, there are two numbers BETWEEN the Nordyke twins numbers and Obama's number.
Yes. If the hospital was assigned a block of certificate numbers, then there have to be two other births recorded for those numbers -OR- one or both of the numbers (10639 &10640) were voided. (If I made a mistake on the paperwork when titling a car, such as mispelling the owner's name, I had to void the registration number I had assigned to that vehicle, assign a new number, and notarize a statement in a DMV book listing the voided registration number. It was required to prevent fraud/abuse by title clerks.)
Are you saying that Obama's mother probably not only came to the delivery room AFTER Mrs. Nordyke, she also came into the delivery room AFTER two other mothers, and that is why Obama's number is so far down the list from the Nordyke twins numbers? Thanks.
Yes, that's what I'm saying - if the scenario I posed is accurate and I'm not swearing that it is, only that it is possible based on my personal experience.
Our records show that Dr. Rodney T. West was Chief of Staff at Kapiolani Hospital in 1953. He was certified by the American Board of Obstetrics & Gynecology in 1958 and practiced at The Straub Clinic and Hospital until his retirement in December 1977.If Dr. West was practicing at Straub (which merged with Kapiolani), as alleged above, he could have been Stanley Ann's obstetrician throughout her pregnancy. Again, I'm just suggesting not asserting.
Thank you for your interest.
The Queens Medical Center
Mamiya Medical Heritage Center
Ha, very funny. I misspelled “mispelling.”
Yes, that's what I'm saying.
*******
So, if we find out that those numbers stamped on top of the Nordyke and Obama birth certificates were stamped there by a Hawaii official/clerk at the Hawaii Department of Health, then I guess your theory is wrong.
But Janice Okubo has already said that the certificate numbers were given by the state registrar on the “date filed”. There weren’t pre-numbered certificates at the hospital, which is what Mrs. Nordyke’s theory depends on.
Mrs. Nordyke’s suggestions are just grasping at straws that the HDOH has already said don’t work.
Interesting, too, that she says she never saw Ann Dunham. During a time when stays after delivery were longer and mothers visited their babies in the nursery, I would think she would have seen Ann when they were both checking on their babies - especially remembering seeing Ann because of her Black son, and especially also remembering if she saw BHO Sr, because he is such a dark man.
The problem with that theory is the reason the Nordyke twins' announcement appeared in the papers so late: the delivering doctor didn't sign the birth certificates until six days later. The physician would have signed or made notations on the hospital chart immediately following the birth, but that doesn't have any bearing on the certs.
Most of the young 'uns in our family were born in the '70's, and the general routine was that the nurse would bring a form to the mother within the first 24 hours after birth, ask her the questions and write the answers down. The numbered birth certificate would then come in the mail from the DOH a few weeks later in photostat form, the same as the Nordykes' in appearance, with instructions on how to inform the DOH if there were any errors on the form. It probably varied from state to state.
No one's really certain just what the routine was in Hawaii in '61, or how the BC's were numbered back then, and whether they were numbered at the hospital or at the DOH. Nordyke's just making a guess, the same as the eligibility-ists have.
And Nordyke isn't saying anything new in this article, nor is she necessarily lying. It's her perception of how it happened, and bless her soul, she's 82 years old.
Actually, the number wouldn’t be a problem. I’m almost certain that the BC number Obama used was from a child born on Aug 4 at Kapiolani. That child’s number was later than Nordykes’ because it was beneath the Nordykes’ in the pile, having been born before the Nordykes.
But that number wasn’t Obama’s. I believe it belonged to a little girl who was born on Aug 4th and died on Aug 5th.
We know that number wasn’t Obama’s because the “date filed” is 3 days earlier than the Nordykes’ “date filed”, which doesn’t work for a number later than the Nordykes’.
The date of birth wouldn’t necessarily impact the certificate number because the hospitals by law were required to collect BC’s for a week and then submit them to the state registrar, where they were given a number that same day. Kapiolani submitted theirs on Fridays - another reason why the Factcheck COLB doesn’t fit for a Kapiolani birth: the “date filed” is on a Tuesday, when all the BC’s for kids born after office hours on Friday, Aug 4th until right before the BC’s were delivered to the state registrar the following Friday would have a “date filed” of Aug 11, 1961.
People have talked about the earlier BC’s being on the bottom of the pile when it was given to the state registrar, and then being numbered from the top of the pile down so that earlier births may well have had later certificate numbers. That is true, for BC’s processed on the same day. That’s why the little girl who was born on the 4th probably had a number slightly later than the Nordykes’. There was probably one other person born between when she was born and when the Nordyke twins were born.
But a person who received a certificate number on a different DAY wouldn’t have that reverse-order effect. That’s why Obama’s “date filed” is the revealing item. It messes up what would otherwise have been a really handy substitution between Obama and this little girl, since she was born at the time and place where he wanted to claim he was born and had the birth certificate to match that time and place. Too bad (for Obama) that he screwed up the “date filed”. It reveals all.
Actually, Janice Okubo has said that the BC’s were numbered at the state registrar’s office on the “date filed”. She said that Oahu BC’s have always been received at the state registrar’s office and given a number by the state registrar on the same day - the “date filed”.
It blows Eleanor Nordyke’s theory out of the water.
I actually address that at http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/red-flags-in-hawaii-2/
She said that while race now appears to be important to the birthers, it was a “non-issue at Punahou school.”
Forgetting the fact that this makes no sense, it's asinine.
How exactly does her hospital “memory” contradict anything?
She said that while race now appears to be important to the birthers, it was a “non-issue at Punahou school.”
Forgetting the fact that this makes no sense, it’s asinine.
That is incorrect. Being born in the US is enough to be a "natural born citizen".
I'm pretty darn old and I don't recall "every other President" releasing his CoLB, which,BTW, Obama has done.
One of the first acts he did as President was to issue an executive order sealing all of his records.
Not true. What Obama did is restore what Reagan put in place and George W. changed.
We all seem to forget that people who worked for one of Obama’s biggest supporters were found to be accessing and possibly tampering with his passport/State Dept. records.
Again, not true.
If you can't stick to the facts and make your case, then just maybe you ain't gotta case.
Or maybe cause such a fuss has been made about it all, her memories are recent.
Black newborns don't always look black.
This document from the National Center for Health Statistics describes the procedures for issuing birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates in 1961. It specifies that:
- The physician, other health professional, or hospital authority is responsible for completing the entire birth certificate in consultation with the parents and that a physician’s signature is required. That same entity then filed the birth certificate with the local office in which the birth occurred.
- The local office, which may be a local registrar or city/country health department verifies the completeness and accuracy of the information on the certificate, makes a copy, ledger entry or index for local use and then forwards the certificate to the state registrar.
- The state registrar queries incomplete or inconsistent information; maintains files for permanent reference and as the source of certified copies; develops vital statistics for use in planning, evaluating, and administering State and local health activities and for research studies; compiles health related statistics for State and civil divisions of State for use of the health department and other agencies and groups; and prepares copies of birth, death, fetal death, marriage, and divorce certficates or records for transmission to the National Vital Statistics Division.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsus_1961_1.pdf
The document also provides a wealth of information about births by state, county, city, race, age of mother, etc. etc.
It was published in 1961 so it’s probably more authoritative than anything Janice Okubo says. Mrs. Nordyke’s theory doesn’t necessarily depend on “pre-numbered” certificates. If the hospital was issued a block of certificate numbers, they could have stamped the certificate numbers on the forms themselves.
I lived in HI in part of the 70s and through most of the 80s. At the high schools I knew about (never knew anyone whose kids went to Punahou, too expensive), the kids hung out by racial groups. As though told to. Of course there are a lot of mixtures. But HI is in some ways a racist place, especially for haoles. Blacks are not liked a whole lot, in my experience. It may be different now. But “local people” often did not like those not similar to them.
Once I wound up with my kids at the “wrong” beach. We got out and were ready to go into the water and I felt people looking at us. We were the only white people on the beach, and the atmosphere was getting pretty thick. We tiptoed back to the car and zoomed off.
The information from there should supplement what Okubo says has always been the case for Oahu birth certificates.
On page 232 of the document you cited as being more credible than Okubo it says:
“With few exceptions, records are numbered in the State offices of vital statistics as they are received from the local offices. The assignment of the last digit in the number is not selective, and the systematic sample of even-numbered records may be assumed to be unbiased. Furthermore, because the records are almost always in geographic order before numbering, twice the sample count of births occurrring in the great majority of counties in table 3-1 in Section 3 is virtually the same as the corresponding figure based on all records.”
....Hawaii law prevents the release of full “long form” birth information to anyone but family members, Nordyke said, “so for the birthers to keep clamoring for it is ridiculous.” She said the leaders of the birther movement are using the false claims to reap financial gain.....
This is such a crock of bull, The Nordyke twins put their long form BC’s on the internet. Why did she omplain that Hawaii law prevents the release instead of just saying hey we put ours on the internet, WHy doesn’t Obama? I bet a dime to a dollat the reporter took the quote out of context, and for sure they didn’t ask the simple question why Obama won’t put his out when Mrs Nordyke’s duaghters put their’s out?
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