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No Foetal Pain Before 24 Weeks
BBC Online ^ | 6/24/10 | Branwen Jeffreys

Posted on 06/24/2010 6:50:14 PM PDT by originalbuckeye

Abortions are permitted after 24 weeks on medical grounds There is no new evidence to show foetuses feel pain in the womb before 24 weeks, and so no reason to challenge the abortion limit, doctors say. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists' review said foetuses are "undeveloped and sedated". Brain connections are not fully formed, and the environment of the womb creates a state of induced sleep, like unconsciousness, they add. Anti-abortion campaigners are likely to challenge the reports. The issue of whether a foetus of 24 weeks or below can feel pain had been raised in the debate over whether the current time limit for abortion should be reduced. An up-to-date analysis of evidence was recommended by MPs in a report from the Commons Science and Technology committee during the last parliament. They looked at the 1967 Abortion Act, which covers all parts of the UK apart from Northern Ireland. Abortion grounds The Royal College's reviews of existing evidence examined whether or not a foetus can experience pain. It also tried to define what mental and physical abnormalities could result in a "serious handicap". Around 1% of abortions are carried out on these grounds. Such terminations can take place after 24 weeks. In the past, campaigners concerned about the abortion law have argued that this has been interpreted too widely to include relatively minor disabilities. But the Royal College said in its second report that it would not be practical to try to produce a list of conditions that would constitute serious handicap because it was too difficult to predict the long-term impact of an abnormality on a child or on their family. Supporters of the current abortion law have welcomed this report, arguing that even within one condition there may be a wide range of severity.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: abortion; healthcare; moralabsolutes; prolife
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To: chris_bdba
If they didn’t feel they wouldn’t move away.

Feeling != Pain

51 posted on 06/24/2010 8:26:30 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: originalbuckeye
Many 24-week-old unborn babies survive outside the womb. They certainly feel pain once born. Could they not feel pain the day before?

Killers always rationalize their crimes at the expense of their victims.

52 posted on 06/24/2010 8:28:16 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Ros<P>)
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To: originalbuckeye
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:43-45

Abortion is satanic.

53 posted on 06/24/2010 8:31:00 PM PDT by Robwin
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To: originalbuckeye

Right, lets VOTE on the issue.

The election for each abortion will be held in 9 months.

Only the baby gets a vote.


54 posted on 06/24/2010 8:34:05 PM PDT by Pikachu_Dad (Impeach Sen Quinn)
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To: originalbuckeye

We already have widespread legal infanticide. Pretty soon they will push for killing toddlers. That’s when we should start executing leftists.


55 posted on 06/24/2010 8:46:50 PM PDT by Soothesayer (We are completely ******!)
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To: originalbuckeye

‘The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists’ review said foetuses are “undeveloped and sedated”.’

God, why can’t these people spell?

Seriously - who cares if they feel pain? The fact remains they are living humans. I guess anyone who is permanently paralyzed or otherwise numb can have anything done to their “painless” portions with impunity.


56 posted on 06/24/2010 8:46:56 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Humble Servant

The only reason why we shouldn’t exterminate these criminal leftist vermin is because it is logistically impossible to do so. It would only make the remaining 50 million more violent towards children.


57 posted on 06/24/2010 8:51:36 PM PDT by Soothesayer (We are completely ******!)
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To: RKBA Democrat
"They’re alive, and aware of their surroundings. If there is a loud noise, they’ll jump."

Moms will vouch for that. We made the mistake of going to a Dave Brubeck concert when I was pregnant with our older son. He gave me heck over that! We tried in vain to muffle the sound for him by laying coats over my tummy - didn't work. I don't know who was more unhappy - him or me! (He's the same one who reached up to check out the amnio needle while in utero).

58 posted on 06/24/2010 8:51:40 PM PDT by Think free or die
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To: surroundedbyblue
They say being in the womb is like being asleep. How would they like to have there heads bashed while they sleep? I'm sure they will feel that! I'm amazed each time Pro-Deathers try justifying their barbarism.
59 posted on 06/24/2010 9:05:26 PM PDT by DHSMostWanted (John Adams Lives!)
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To: originalbuckeye

Not scientific and not intuitive, either.


60 posted on 06/24/2010 9:06:13 PM PDT by Havisham
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To: originalbuckeye

At 3 months, John the Baptist lept for joy at the sound of Mary’s voice.


61 posted on 06/24/2010 9:09:00 PM PDT by dangus
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To: originalbuckeye
B. S.
62 posted on 06/24/2010 9:18:44 PM PDT by unspun (It's individual, state & national sovereignties, 'stupid' - investigatingobama.blogspot.com)
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To: originalbuckeye

So pain is the line we draw for murder? So if I drug somebody to knock them out and then kill them I can get away with it because they didn’t feel pain?


63 posted on 06/24/2010 9:20:32 PM PDT by Truthsearcher
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To: Humble Servant

Your post reminds me of those Drunk Driving commercials on the air nowadays... “She’s fine right? I was just buzzed, I wasn’t drunk!” (the frenetic activity in the ER comes to a screeching halt and his half-dead wife/girlfriend sits up) The ER nurse says, “Oh.. you didn’t tell us you were just buzzed!” And the woman on the gurney says “Oh, yeah I’m fine”. And the guy says, “Really?” And then everyone turns and says “NO!” and the activity of trying to save her resumes...


64 posted on 06/24/2010 9:21:15 PM PDT by LibertyRocks (http://libertyrocks.wordpress.com ~ Anti-Obama Gear: http://cafepress.com/NO_ObamaBiden08)
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To: originalbuckeye

I’m gonna hold my comments back. this kind of crap devalues human life.


65 posted on 06/24/2010 9:23:15 PM PDT by Ancient Drive (DRINK COFFEE! - Do Stupid Things Faster with More Energy!)
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To: Think free or die

My oldest daughter used to kick to the beat of the ZZ Top song “Legs”! :) AND various other heavy rock I used to listen to... ALWAYS to the beat! She was DANCING in the womb! LOL (Or I should have gotten her a drum kit when she was a toddler! At least my tupperware, pans, and spoons wouldn’t have suffered so... LOL)


66 posted on 06/24/2010 9:25:23 PM PDT by LibertyRocks (http://libertyrocks.wordpress.com ~ Anti-Obama Gear: http://cafepress.com/NO_ObamaBiden08)
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To: originalbuckeye

So what, the foetus still gets killed. Just call it “euborthanasia”.


67 posted on 06/24/2010 9:38:13 PM PDT by rfp1234
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To: originalbuckeye

11 week abortion
68 posted on 06/24/2010 10:22:43 PM PDT by Cedar
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To: originalbuckeye

Amazing how intensely interested some people are in finding ways to make it easier to kill the most defenseless of all humans. “They can’t feel anything, so don’t even THINK about that silliness!” I couldn’t imagine waking up each morning and thinking “Today I’m going to try to get more people to relax about having abortions.”


69 posted on 06/24/2010 10:33:48 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 ("You seem to believe that stupidity is a virtue. Why is that so?"-Flight of the Phoenix)
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To: originalbuckeye

I don’t believe this, but regardless, I don’t think the pain angle is the one that we as pro-lifers should go with. It doesn’t matter whether or not the child is capable of feeling pain. The ability to feel physical pain is not what makes one a human being. In fact, there is a condition where born people are incapable of feeling physical pain. What makes one a person is being made in the image and likeness of God. Granted, that argument can’t be used with the secularists responsible for the current abortion situation, so the argument one would use is that a person’s life begins at conception and continues from that point until natural death. While pain is a part of life, it is not life itself.

Of course, it’s certainly obvious that those in the pro-abortion movement could care less that the child feels pain or not. They are saying the child does not because there are people out there who are supportive of abortion if they believe the child does not feel pain; they are under the flawed notion that ability to feel pain equals life. If these people are told the child can feel pain earlier, then there are going to be those in the general public who will want more restrictions on abortion. The “hardcore” pro-aborts don’t want that. Heck, they’d like to be able to kill up to before birth. To them, the child is an invader in the woman’s body that can be killed at anytime. Further evidence they don’t care whether the child feels pain is that they leave the door open for abortions after 24 weeks for children that are physically/mentally “imperfect”. Surely many of those children have the capacity to feel pain during an abortion. However, many in the general public, through the culture of death, have come to believe that it is “humane” to kill an unborn child and even a born child or adult if they deem that person is suffering too much. This, even though for the “normal” unborn child they believe pain = right to not be killed, is quite a puzzle.

I think the bottom line is that the world has gotten away from God. Once people stop believing that a person is made in the image of God and that life is a gift to be treasured and protected from conception to natural death, we have things like abortion, euthanasia, prostitution, etc. While we can use science to attempt to rationalize with the secularists, ultimately, God is the one who can end this travesty.


70 posted on 06/24/2010 10:33:51 PM PDT by Pinkbell
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To: Hoodat

Absolutely.


71 posted on 06/24/2010 10:47:58 PM PDT by Pinkbell
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To: TitansAFC

I’ve heard all sorts from pro-aborts. I’ve heard the pain argument, the viability argument, the consciousness argument, the birth argument, etc. All sorts of reasons out there to justify death.


72 posted on 06/24/2010 10:56:38 PM PDT by Pinkbell
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To: Gondring

Well, excuse the hell out of me for undermining the credibility of “our” side.


73 posted on 06/25/2010 1:02:48 AM PDT by thecabal (Destroy Progressivism)
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To: madison10

It is beyond pathetic. I sense a certain desperation about this pronouncement. Whatever, I cannotr for the life of me figure out why any human being, let alone one who believes they have a soul, can so enthusiastically embrace the murder of unborn infants. And I hope there is a special place in Hell for parents, doctors and nurses who engage late term abortions. The procedure where they let the head appear, jam scissors into it and then suction out the brains.

Sorry to be so graphic here, but some people prefer not to know how this is done.


74 posted on 06/25/2010 4:08:00 AM PDT by dools007
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To: originalbuckeye

So if someone numbs an abortion doctor, is it ok to murder him? I don’t think so. It’s also not ok to murder babies.

Really - we shouldn’t have to point out things like that but we live amongst black-heated evil people.


75 posted on 06/25/2010 4:10:16 AM PDT by SlayerOfBunnies (An Indian friend of mine wishes to remind everyone... Indians <> muslims)
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To: glock rocks
It is no accident that all our children are riding around in car seats and every plug and cabinet in the house has safety catches on them...

The left feels guilty.

And tries to make up for the guilt they feel over killing millions of babies, by overcompensating when it comes to the safety of those that survive the abortion holocaust.

76 posted on 06/25/2010 4:22:23 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama = Epic Fail)
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To: Think free or die

That’s a very powerful story. Thanks for sharing...


77 posted on 06/25/2010 4:28:42 AM PDT by propertius
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To: Robwin
by Michael D. O'Brien
Abortion is satanic.
I came across the following through an article by Fr. Thomas J. Euteneuer:
6. Spiritual Journey-- Ending a pregnancy is not just a physical act but also a spiritual process. Meet with our spirit healer and guide a week in advance to plan the ritual journey that will meet your spiritual needs. Native American (Taino clan tradition), Eastern philosophy, nature-inspired (pagan), or custom designed ceremonies are available to you and to the support people who will accompany you on your spirit quest. Or, design your own rituals with the help of our experienced guides. Check in to our mountain retreat Friday night for a ritual cleansing and spiritual preparation. Have the surgical procedure when you are ready for a separation of paths with the spirit child within you. Miscarriage with medicines and herbs is also available early in pregnancy. A follow-up ritual a year and a day later is included in this package. $5000 --Allegheny Reproductive Health Center
Painting by Michael D. O'Brien.

The Demon of Child Sacrifice and the Valley of Slaughter, by Fr. Thomas J. Euteneuer.

78 posted on 06/25/2010 4:44:20 AM PDT by mlizzy (Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee ...)
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To: originalbuckeye; 185JHP; 230FMJ; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


79 posted on 06/25/2010 4:47:20 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: originalbuckeye
Whether a baby in the womb feels pain or not is entirely irrelevant. Either the child is a human being or is not. Personally, I believe the child is a human being from the moment of conception. If you don't believe that then you must be able to tell me, exactly, when the baby stops being a fetus and becomes a human being, something no pro-abortion supporter can do.
80 posted on 06/25/2010 4:52:43 AM PDT by ops33 (Senior Master Sergeant, USAF (Retired))
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To: originalbuckeye

Given this logic, it should be legal to shoot someone in the head as they sleep, since death would be so quick they’d have no time to feel any pain.


81 posted on 06/25/2010 5:04:35 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Never trust anyone who points their rear end at God while praying.)
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To: surroundedbyblue

“This is absolute BS .........”

AGREED...That was my first response also!

May they get on their knees in repentance for this


82 posted on 06/25/2010 5:26:27 AM PDT by blueyon (The U. S. Constitution - read it and weep)
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To: originalbuckeye
No matter what the political hack poseurs say, the science is clear:

PREBORN - 11 WEEKS AFTER CONCEPTION

* HEART IS BEATING (SINCE 18-25 DAYS)
* BRAIN WAVES HAVE BEEN RECORDED AT 40 DAYS
* THE BABY SQUINTS, SWALLOWS, AND CAN MAKE A FIST
* THE BABY HAS FINGERPRINTS AND CAN KICK
* THE BABY IS SENSITIVE TO HEAT, TOUCH, LIGHT AND NOISE (AND therefore PAIN)
* THE BABY SUCKS HIS OR HER THUMB
* ALL BODY SYSTEMS ARE WORKING
* THE BABY WEIGHS ABOUT 1 OUNCE AND IS 2 1/2 TO 3 INCHES LONG
* THE BABY COULD FIT COMFORTABLY IN THE PALM OF YOUR HAND

Silent Scream


83 posted on 06/25/2010 5:36:55 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Think free or die
Any doubts I still may have had about the sanctity of life vanished at that moment.

Beautiful story.

I can't understand how anyone wouldn't be appalled by abortion once they've had a child of their own.

84 posted on 06/25/2010 5:46:12 AM PDT by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my Dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: originalbuckeye; narses; wagglebee

This is a ridiculous claim. 24 week babies survive premature births. In fact, I believe 21 week babies(y) have survived.


85 posted on 06/25/2010 6:07:28 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Raycpa
And the larger question --- as I'm sure you'lleagree --- is "So what?"

Is it really OK to assassinate somebody if, when you made the hit, they were unconcious, anesthetized, or asleep?

A Harvard Med School grad doctor once told me, "I don't know exactly when human life 'began.' If could have been one million years ago. But I do know that human life is TRANSMITTED to a new generation, every time a fertilization occurs."

86 posted on 06/25/2010 6:10:07 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child who's got his own." Arthur Herzog Jr./Billie Holiday)
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To: xzins

You are correct. Babies at 24 weeks routinely survive and I have heard of babies surviving in at 21 to 22 weeks.

Any doctor will tell you that it is nearly impossible to pinpoint with absolute certainty how far along most pregnancies are (the only real exceptions are when the woman only had intercourse one time during the timeframe and happens to know the exact date).

This whole issue illustrates the FACT that the abortionists KNOW that they are killing a HUMAN LIFE. They can try all they want to hide behind the idea that it’s acceptable as long as there isn’t pain, but that is like saying that it’s okay to walk up to someone in the street and murder them as long as it’s painless.


87 posted on 06/25/2010 6:18:29 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Raycpa; xzins
"I don't know exactly when human life 'began.' If could have been one million years ago. But I do know that human life is TRANSMITTED to a new generation, every time a fertilization occurs."

I don't know who originally said it, but someone once said, "any teenage boy who has ever bought a box of condoms KNOWS when life begins."

88 posted on 06/25/2010 6:20:59 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: originalbuckeye

Children have been born at six months.

They’re quickening and moving months before that.

They kick before that as well.

Same beast, different name.

Convenient this comes out when Kagan’s support of Partial-Birth abortion (during Clinton), may come up.


89 posted on 06/25/2010 6:34:09 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray, Pray, Pray. Stop Barrystroika.)
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To: originalbuckeye
First, I highly doubt that it is possible to know what anyone can or cannot feel.

Regardless, does that makes killing them OK? Can we kill anyone who annoys us as long as they can't feel it?

90 posted on 06/25/2010 6:37:01 AM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: originalbuckeye

Abortionists and those who support abortion will stand before the Living God, Creator of all life, and explain why they favored destruction of His creation. I feel sorry for them.


91 posted on 06/25/2010 6:56:57 AM PDT by thethirddegree
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To: Wage Slave

God bless you for caring for those little ones.


92 posted on 06/25/2010 6:58:48 AM PDT by thethirddegree
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To: Owl_Eagle
"I can't understand how anyone wouldn't be appalled by abortion once they've had a child of their own. "

That's a tough one, isn't it? We lost five babies (not by "choice") before our now 17 year old son was born. Every year at Christmas we remember them with special ornaments on the tree. Our two sons have the privilege of hanging those butterfly ornaments. They've often wondered aloud what those lost brothers and sisters would have been like, and both have said how much they would have enjoyed being part of a large family. These kinds of losses are felt by entire families, which makes it even harder to accept the notion of "a woman's right to choose".

93 posted on 06/25/2010 7:41:13 AM PDT by Think free or die
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To: originalbuckeye

So what magical transformation takes place on the trip down the birth canal that suddenly lets infants feel pain? Infants born prematurely before 24 weeks gestation rarely survive, but it does happen and those tiniest of miracles always show reactions to pain.


94 posted on 06/25/2010 8:07:54 AM PDT by brothers4thID (http://scarlettsays.blogspot.com/)
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To: dools007

Yes, I’ve heard about the partial-birth abortion procedure. Grotesque. PETA would be screaming if we were doing such to animals.


95 posted on 06/25/2010 9:40:51 AM PDT by madison10
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To: originalbuckeye

Ideally, there is no PAIN with Legal Lethel Injection; either...

Ya still get the same results: one dead human.


96 posted on 06/25/2010 10:40:25 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: originalbuckeye
It's called propaganda. They maneuver lies into facts by paid professional lackeys and then put them out there as often as possible so that they are available as proved “facts” as needed to continue to support their cold blooded butchery. It matters not in the least to them that they know that these “facts” are bold faced lies for they know that these lies will soon become societies accepted “facts”.

Soon the lies become so acceptable as truth that they then are used by them to to support other “facts” which are built upon the faulty foundation of sheer lies. It's the way of the world so buyers of truth need to beware not to accept so called accepted truth without deeply investigating it.

97 posted on 06/25/2010 1:58:48 PM PDT by Bellflower (If you are left DO NOT take the mark of the beast and be damned forever.)
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