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Iraqis prefer AK-47 over M-16 for performance in desert heat
World Tribune ^ | 7/9/2010 | World Tribune

Posted on 07/11/2010 1:30:09 AM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld

The U.S. military has supplied about 10,000 M-16s to the Iraq Army. But officials acknowledged that the Iraqis have decided to maintain the AK-47 as the lead assault rifle.The Iraq Army has determined that the M-16 was more accurate than the Kalashnikov. But officials said the Army concluded that the AK-47 was more reliable in the searing Iraqi summers. U.S. Army advisers have completed a course on the M-16 assault rifle for Iraqi soldiers at Camp Taji. The two-week course, which took place in mid-June, was meant to help the Iraq Army introduce the M-16 and, in some units, replace the Soviet-origin AK-47 Kalashnikov assault rifle. "For their first time, they shot very well — even compared to some U.S. soldiers," Sgt. Kevin Averre, in charge of the training, said. Officials said the U.S. military has imposed restrictions on the use of the M-16 to the Iraq Army. They said the Iraqis were required to register each M-16 to ensure that they are not sold or given to Al Qaida or other insurgency groups.

The U.S. Army, amid an accelerated troop withdrawal, has maintained its assault rifle training course in Iraq.

"Many Iraqi soldiers on Camp Taji do not use M-16s, and as the weapons continue to arrive, U.S. units will remain actively engaged in the training of the Iraqi Army," the U.S. Army said on June 21

(Excerpt) Read more at worldtribune.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 556mm; 762mm; ak47; banglist; iraqiarmy; m16; obamasfault; rifle; treason

1 posted on 07/11/2010 1:30:12 AM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: sonofstrangelove
Officials said the U.S. military has imposed restrictions on the use of the M-16 to the Iraq Army. They said the Iraqis were required to register each M-16 to ensure that they are not sold or given to Al Qaida or other insurgency groups.

That explains everything.


2 posted on 07/11/2010 3:16:40 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: sonofstrangelove

I could help find a home for those unloved M-16s.......


3 posted on 07/11/2010 3:20:31 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: sonofstrangelove

The AK-47 is a low maintenance relationship. The M-16 is a fussier mistress.


4 posted on 07/11/2010 3:33:35 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The naked casuistry of the high priests of Warmism would make a Jesuit blush.)
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To: sonofstrangelove
Iraqis prefer AK-47 over M-16 for performance in desert heat


"Do I really have to say it?"

'Series' for people who don't know what a TOILET is, expecting them to maintain the finicky M-16 in tip-top shape is a bit of a stretch. They'd have to clean heir weapon more than they clean themselves.

Will someone please buy 'the military' a clue.

I prefer the AK myself, it's like Superman, indestructible. (impervious to the elements)

5 posted on 07/11/2010 4:40:05 AM PDT by Condor51 (SAT CONG!)
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To: sonofstrangelove

So I hope we take them back then than have 10,000 fresh M-16’s out there.


6 posted on 07/11/2010 4:55:11 AM PDT by valkyry1
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To: sonofstrangelove

The AK is a good rifle in a lot of ways. Simple, easy to maintain, capable of being used even by the dimmest specimen of humanity. And it is durable.


7 posted on 07/11/2010 4:56:54 AM PDT by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: sonofstrangelove
But officials acknowledged that the Iraqis have decided to maintain the AK-47 as the lead assault rifle.

You're all missing it. The Iraqis believe that Obama will cut and run as soon as possible and there they'll be standing there among a thousand Muslim terrorist holding an American M-16.

8 posted on 07/11/2010 5:04:29 AM PDT by libertylover (The problem with Obama is not that his skin is too black, it's that his ideas are too RED.)
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To: libertylover

“The AK 47 is the weapon of choice among our enemies and has a distinctive sound” Gunny Hightower


9 posted on 07/11/2010 5:06:52 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... The winds of war are freshening)
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To: sonofstrangelove

Add to the above, the AK is FAR less expensive to purchase and maintain. The M16 might be a decent weapon, but it isn’t the “be-all, end-all”.


10 posted on 07/11/2010 5:44:02 AM PDT by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: bert

That’s Gunny Highway. Just watched it last night.

Keep your powder dry.


11 posted on 07/11/2010 5:51:34 AM PDT by DownInFlames
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To: sonofstrangelove

I am recalling the first complaints about the M16 from our boys in Viet Nam - that is when they started to chrome the chambers. Why dont we have an american version of the FN?

Accurate and mud proof.


12 posted on 07/11/2010 6:01:47 AM PDT by kingcoal
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To: DownInFlames

Me too. you would think I could remember for 12 hours...... bad sign

especially after seeing it many times


13 posted on 07/11/2010 6:07:46 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... The winds of war are freshening)
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To: Condor51

...Exactly!...I just finished reading Rory Stewart’s “The Places in Between” about his walk across Afganistan...those tribal people are so backward they wipe their ass with their hand...the M-16 is not a rifle for mud people.


14 posted on 07/11/2010 7:07:05 AM PDT by STONEWALLS
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To: sonofstrangelove
The AK-47’s 7.62 round is better than the M-16’s 5.56 in the longer engagements of a desert environment shootout.
15 posted on 07/11/2010 8:34:01 AM PDT by 2001convSVT ("Hand out pocket Constitutions to everyone you can")
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To: TheBattman

Yep


16 posted on 07/11/2010 9:03:02 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: kingcoal
Why dont we have an american version of the FN?

1. Who wants to put the money in developing something they can't sell to the public.
2.We don't have an industrial infrastructure anymore.

17 posted on 07/11/2010 11:27:48 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Last Dakotan
Why dont we have an american version of the FN?

We do in both inch and metric patterns:

DS Arms.

L

18 posted on 07/11/2010 11:32:18 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: DownInFlames; bert; libertylover
“The AK 47 is the weapon of choice among our enemies and has a distinctive sound” Gunny Hightower

*****

That’s Gunny Highway. Just watched it last night.

Keep your powder dry.

*********************

That should be: This is the AK-47 assault rifle, the preferred weapon of your enemy; and it makes a distinctive sound when fired at you, so remember it.

You men do not impress me.

19 posted on 07/11/2010 12:12:01 PM PDT by archy (Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam)
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To: kingcoal
I am recalling the first complaints about the M16 from our boys in Viet Nam - that is when they started to chrome the chambers. Why dont we have an american version of the FN?

Accurate and mud proof.

Reasonably accurate for a service rifle, but heavy, almost 12 pounds loaded. And though reasonably reliable in mud, not as happy with sandyb conditions, as the Israeli troops who used the things from the 1950s until the mid-1970s found out. They called besom the broom, and though the Israelis adopted the *sand cuts* on the bolt and bolt carrier as used by the British on their L1A1 version, there was a lot more sand in their area of operations than those sand cuts could digest.

I like the FAL, don't misunderstand me. But I'd far rather carry the Rhodesiam R1 version than the T48.


20 posted on 07/11/2010 12:26:21 PM PDT by archy (Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam)
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To: archy

Meet me at the gun range and I’ll change your mind.


21 posted on 07/11/2010 12:27:40 PM PDT by DownInFlames
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To: DownInFlames
Meet me at the gun range and I’ll change your mind.

My range is off my back porch, and it's just about good for about 600 yards, the distance for the NM course.

But that last line was a quote from the movie, so it's not my mind you'd have to change.

22 posted on 07/11/2010 2:07:02 PM PDT by archy (Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam)
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To: archy

See, on Free Republic we pretty much get the nit of things before it is all over :)


23 posted on 07/11/2010 2:34:31 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... The winds of war are freshening)
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To: libertylover


You’re all missing it. The Iraqis believe that Obama will cut and
run as soon as possible and there they’ll be standing there among a
thousand Muslim terrorist holding an American M-16.

I remember seeing a report (during “The Clinton Years”) about how
some M-16s issued to the Israeli Defense Forces ended up in the hands
of the Palestinian “freedom fighters”.
IIRC, the Israelis eventually found a way to convey booby-trapped
M-16s to the Palestinians.
E.g., gun blew up in their faces after a clip or so.

Later, I think I heard that Clinton had put plenty of M-16s into the
hands of the Palestians “police force” allied with Arafat/Al-Fatah.
Mad me ill to think of this.


24 posted on 07/11/2010 5:26:10 PM PDT by VOA
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To: sonofstrangelove

These gentlemen wipe their butts with rocks. How well do you think they’ll do cleaning their rifles?


25 posted on 07/11/2010 8:59:14 PM PDT by Fido969 ("The hardest thing in the world to understand is income tax." - Albert Einstein)
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To: sonofstrangelove
7.62mm tracers make better cigarette lighters.
26 posted on 07/12/2010 8:03:56 AM PDT by gundog (Outrage is anger taken by surprise. Nothing these people do surprises me anymore.)
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To: archy

I thought the Aussies finally got it fixed with helical cuts.


27 posted on 07/13/2010 7:28:13 PM PDT by kingcoal
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To: archy

The trooper on the left is flagging his buddy. Are they Rhodesian? I don’t recognize the camo pattern.
regards,


28 posted on 07/13/2010 7:51:41 PM PDT by Thunder 6
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To: Fido969

You are right on target. They won’t maintain them, or do the necessary marksmanship training 30 seconds after we ‘un-ass’ the country...

regards,


29 posted on 07/13/2010 7:54:01 PM PDT by Thunder 6
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To: Fido969

A Soldier of mine gave an IA soldier a large bottle of CLP for his AK47. The fool dumped the entire bottle all over his rifle, and called it clean.

You can’t fix stupid.


30 posted on 07/13/2010 8:03:27 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater ("Get out of the boat and walk on the water with us!”--Sen. Joe Biden)
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To: kingcoal
I thought the Aussies finally got it fixed with helical cuts.

The sand cuts were a Brit development, their improvement on the first batch of FAL test rifles they got from FN. All the *Commonwealth* rifles used by former British colonies/possessions had the sand cuts, including the Canadian C1 and C2, Indian Ishapore-built 1A and 1A1 rifles, the Australian Lithgow-produced L1A1 and L2A1, and British-produced L1A1s [Enfield and BSA, from about 1954 on] and most Israeli rifles- which were *metric* pattern, not *inch* or *Commonwealth.*

The Rhodesians used both L1A1 rifles sent their prior to their Unilateral Declaration of Independence, and after that, mostly metric pattern rifles, particularly South african R1/R2 versions- without sand cuts.

The Australian L1A1 SLRs [pronounced *slurs* by the Digger troopies] worked fine in mud. I wasn't around them anywhere operational where there was that much sand [there's plenty to be had out back of Alice around Pine Gap!] so I can't say how that might have worked out. But my Lithgow L1A1, now fitted with a DSA L1A1 lower receiver, works pretty well in the grit.

31 posted on 07/15/2010 6:22:55 PM PDT by archy (Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam)
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To: Thunder 6
The trooper on the left is flagging his buddy. Are they Rhodesian? I don’t recognize the camo pattern. regards,

Indeed. The camera angle makes it look like the R1 is pointed his way, but those lads were so scrupulous about muzzle discipline that I suspect that there's a bit of camera angle involved. Grey's Scouts could be a little more sporty to be around, as their horses didn't always cooperate, so usually carried their gats muzzle skyward when possible. And the lads in Armoured Cars could be a bit risky to be around.

The only AD I saw, which holed the borrowed VW Rabbit I was using, though not while I was in it, came from a .303 Browning MG on a RhAF base where an armourer had failed to clear a gun properly. He let the bolt go forward, with no belt in place but with one round in the feedway, and BANG!. Of course, if there's been a belt in, there would have been a great many bangs, those aircraft guns ran at around 20-25 rounds/second.

The green beanies mark the troopies around the Mog mortar carroer as Rhodesian Light Infantry, reckoned by many, including themselves, to be Rhodesia's Best.

32 posted on 07/15/2010 6:31:05 PM PDT by archy (Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam)
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To: Future Snake Eater
A Soldier of mine gave an IA soldier a large bottle of CLP for his AK47. The fool dumped the entire bottle all over his rifle, and called it clean.

You can’t fix stupid.

At least he didn't drink it.

33 posted on 07/15/2010 6:32:48 PM PDT by archy (Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam)
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To: sonofstrangelove

“But officials said the Army concluded that the AK-47 was more reliable in the searing Iraqi summers.”
~~~

Yup,,,They won’t boil over!...;0)


34 posted on 07/15/2010 6:49:25 PM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: archy

I discovered the struggle for Rhodesia while doing internet research for a paper at command and staff ‘college’. The army struck me as both noble and brave, defending what they must have known was the end of their way of life.

Sad to see what has become of the country they and their ancestors built.

Regards,


35 posted on 07/15/2010 6:53:14 PM PDT by Thunder 6
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To: archy

Well, not that I saw at least...


36 posted on 07/15/2010 8:29:14 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater ("Get out of the boat and walk on the water with us!”--Sen. Joe Biden)
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To: Thunder 6
I discovered the struggle for Rhodesia while doing internet research for a paper at command and staff ‘college’. The army struck me as both noble and brave, defending what they must have known was the end of their way of life.

My involvement was just a bit more personal,m but you're spot-on about the nobility and courage of the troopies, at least that I saw displayed by the EM, most of the NCOs and junior officers. That can't be said for some of the more senior personnel unfortunately, the most notorious of whom was probably Slick Richie Stannard.

Sad to see what has become of the country they and their ancestors built.

True that, though of course it's not quite all over yet. But it's certainly been a hard couple of decades for those of the RAR.

Regards,

Cheers, mate!

37 posted on 07/15/2010 8:52:40 PM PDT by archy (Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam)
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To: archy
Archy, you are probably familiar with this book...I thought it quite good.

Scribbling the Cat: Travels with an African Soldier By Alexandra Fuller

38 posted on 07/15/2010 9:31:25 PM PDT by Cuttnhorse ("It is terrible to contemplete how few politicians are hanged." - G.K. Chesterton, 1921)
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To: Cuttnhorse
Archy, you are probably familiar with this book...I thought it quite good. Scribbling the Cat: Travels with an African Soldier By Alexandra Fuller

I've read it, but don't have a copy. You might find this one to be an interesting bit of advanced study.

39 posted on 07/17/2010 10:41:25 AM PDT by archy (Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam)
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To: archy

Thanks Arch,

Looks like a good book. I worked in eastern Africa for two years and while the place is high frustration with all the lost potential, I enjoyed the experience a great deal.

Cheers


40 posted on 07/17/2010 12:31:35 PM PDT by Cuttnhorse ("It is terrible to contemplete how few politicians are hanged." - G.K. Chesterton, 1921)
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