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(LEAD) N. Korean helicopter crashes in China, killing pilot: source(actually MIG-21)
Yonhap News ^ | 08/18/10

Posted on 08/17/2010 10:56:49 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster

(LEAD) N. Korean helicopter crashes in China, killing pilot: source

SHENYANG, China, Aug. 18 (Yonhap) -- A North Korean helicopter crashed in a Chinese border area, killing the pilot aboard who may have attempted to defect to Russia, intelligence sources here said Wednesday.

The crash took place in Fushun Prefecture in the province of Liaoning Tuesday afternoon, the sources said, adding the pilot was the only person in the chopper when it crashed.


"The pilot died on the spot," one source said, adding the Chinese authorities were able to identify the nationality of the helicopter only after the crash.

Chinese authorities had confirmed that a small aircraft flew into their territory but did not identify its origin.

"The helicopter unexpectedly crashed while flying over Fushun," the source said, declining to be identified. It remains unclear what the model of the aircraft was.

Another source said that the helicopter is believed to have lost its direction while flying to Russia after escaping North Korea. China has a repatriation pact with North Korea, and that may have led the pilot to choose Russia as his destination.

Fushun is about 200 kilometers away from a North Korean air base in the border town of Sinuiju. The number of North Korean soldiers defecting from their impoverished homeland has increased in recent months as food shortages deepen, observers say.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; crash; defection; famine; foodsupply; mig21; nk; nkorea; russia
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1 posted on 08/17/2010 10:56:52 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster; AmericanInTokyo; Steel Wolf; nuconvert; MizSterious; nw_arizona_granny; ...
According to update by Chosun Ilbo, Chinese believes it is MIG-21 not a helicopter. They suspect that it could have been a defection attempt.

Another photo of crash site. The tail section looks like that of old MIG model.

The location of crash site. This was apparently dated by about a hour. Its title says N. Korea helicopter crashed in China.


2 posted on 08/17/2010 11:03:15 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Probably shot down trying to escape!
3 posted on 08/17/2010 11:08:38 PM PDT by Herakles (Diversity is code word for anti-white racism)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

//


4 posted on 08/17/2010 11:09:20 PM PDT by happinesswithoutpeace (1.416785(71) x 10^32 You are receiving this broadcast as a dream)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Likely ran out of fuel. That model of Mig is a flying fuel tank, and if it had any left in it, it wouuld have burned like a blow torch.Note there is no sign of fire. The pilot pancaked it in and hit a farm hut.


5 posted on 08/17/2010 11:15:10 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama . fascist info..http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Likely it was flown not by a professional pilot but by a civilian with some basic training in crop dusting. The reason is simple - it’s impossible for a professional to mistake flying to China (South) and flying to Russia (North.) You could do that by stars, by the sun, and of course by any compass. Pilots who fly these airplanes on duty know the land, can find the compass among the instruments, and can escape easily. Only a civilian can be confused enough to lose orientation and on top of that probably make a small mistake in piloting that an old military aircraft (without computers) is not likely to forgive.


6 posted on 08/17/2010 11:18:32 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Greysard

The map picture shows him headed almost due north. He was flying from the southern and westernnmost point on the border.


7 posted on 08/17/2010 11:22:51 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One i've not been p[aying attention to the FlSCLesson.")
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To: Candor7

Good observation. I’m buyin’ it. Makes you wonder about China’s radar capabilities if any of this is true. I don’t believe much of anything reported from China, which is a rare occurrence in and of itself.


8 posted on 08/17/2010 11:23:03 PM PDT by historyrepeatz
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: TigerLikesRooster
Oh, no, my linked photo has changed.Chosun Ilbo replaced the original map with the new one with the new title saying that N. Korean warplane crashed, apparently, they used the same file name for the new picture.

As a result, I look like a fool because of the comment about the title.:-)

10 posted on 08/17/2010 11:36:27 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

[As a result, I look like a fool because of the comment about the title. . .]

You’re an invaluable contributor to this site and in no way a “fool.”


11 posted on 08/17/2010 11:45:36 PM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

You’re certainly no fool TLR..Thanks for the update info.


12 posted on 08/17/2010 11:52:46 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: historyrepeatz

I doubt China spends too much attention to it’s North Korean border when it comes to air traffic. It’s not like the Norkies are going to launch an air attack.


13 posted on 08/17/2010 11:55:04 PM PDT by Ronin (If it werenÂ’t so gruesomely malevolent, Islam would just be silly.)
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To: Ronin
Now that you mention it, China now has to deploy air defense units along its border for the possible incursion of NK plane. It is not enough that they deployed infantry, tanks, and surface-to-surface missiles. Who knew that NK can cause trouble with their warplane along NK-China border? More headaches from ‘long-time ally.’
14 posted on 08/18/2010 12:00:42 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Nobody looks like a fool.

The only "fools" are the North Koreans for keeping their people shut in, and under their jackboots!

15 posted on 08/18/2010 12:16:54 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Donating to FREE REPUBLIC will allow you to "freep" with a clear conscience...)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Well, screws are getting loose from those nutcases, and based on recent development(including this crash,) they have problem keeping their joint in order.


16 posted on 08/18/2010 12:23:17 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: arthurus
The map picture shows him headed almost due north. He was flying from the southern and westernnmost point on the border.

I see the map now, thanks. Still it's weird. I checked with Google Earth, and if you fly straight North from there you have to cross a good deal of China, and it's 930 miles until you get to Russia; you will cross the border into uninhabited areas of Siberia, and you'd better know your way around to find a city with an airport (might be another 500 miles; maybe more if you want an English-speaking controller.)

On the other hand, if you fly the heading 58 degrees you will land at any number of airfields around Vladivostok after only flying 445 miles. One catch is that you'd be flying along the NK-China border, which might have a few radars. But it would be pretty foolish to assume that inner regions of China are not under some sort of air traffic control.

At this point I have no guesses what the intention of the pilot was. His route makes little sense. Maybe he intended to turn East at some point? I checked the specs on Wikipedia, and it looks like this airplane wouldn't make it anywhere but China anyway:

Like many aircraft designed as interceptors, the MiG-21 had a short range. This was not helped by a design defect where the center of gravity shifted rearwards once two-thirds of the fuel had been used. This had the effect of making the plane uncontrollable, resulting in an endurance of only 45 minutes in clean condition. The issue of the short endurance and low fuel capacity of the MiG-21F, PF, PFM, S/SM and M/MF variants—though each had a somewhat greater fuel capacity than its predecessor—led to the development of the MT and SMT variants. These had a range increase of 250 km (155 mi) compared to the MiG-21SM, but at the cost of worsening all other performance figures (such as a lower service ceiling and slower time to altitude).[1]

Someone already commented that probably the airplane ran out of fuel - this is very likely if the range is only 100-150 miles. The distance from Dandong (NK) to Fushun (China) is 125 miles per Google Earth - sounds about right to empty the tanks, especially if the pilot is not aware of how fast that is going to happen. Considering the center of mass change as the fuel is used up, it takes a pilot who is familiar with the aircraft to fly it past the 2/3 fuel point. I'm presuming NK doesn't have later modifications that somewhat fixed this problem. But even those modifications wouldn't have the range to reach Russia.

17 posted on 08/18/2010 12:28:39 AM PDT by Greysard
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Can we be sure those pictures are of the latest incident? Do any of the stories mention the source of the photos?


18 posted on 08/18/2010 12:29:01 AM PDT by Int (Sins of the media: exaggeration and oversimplification)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Bump!


19 posted on 08/18/2010 12:32:03 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Most free, non-communist democracies with a patriotic military would have had a CD'E by now)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

bump


20 posted on 08/18/2010 12:33:16 AM PDT by BunnySlippers (I love BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: Int
China's Phoenix Network ran articles and a news clip. Watch this news clip.

The following is the more detailed location maps culled from the network.

The MIG model presumably involved in the crash.


21 posted on 08/18/2010 12:41:56 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

An update from Yonhap says: “Military experts said the plane appeared to be a MiG-15, a model widely deployed during the 1950-53 Korean War but now used mostly for training.”


22 posted on 08/18/2010 12:42:00 AM PDT by Int (Sins of the media: exaggeration and oversimplification)
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To: Int
Yeah, there are two conflicting accounts floating around now. It will be hashed out soon.
23 posted on 08/18/2010 12:44:41 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

See my comment #21. You can watch a Chinese news clip on this crash.


24 posted on 08/18/2010 12:46:12 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

You aced this one Tiger.They misreported it purposefully
and the photos caught them in their misreporting. This is great, it shows we had the truth before the Chinese media massagers did. Come to think of it, we do the same thing now everyday with the USA MSM, which today is very much like the CHina Massaged Media.Eff them both, thats what the thread title means to me!

Thats why the MSM and the Chinese Commie media do not like us one bit.We make the ba$tards scramble to spin the truth and we still stay ahead of them! LOL.


25 posted on 08/18/2010 12:46:48 AM PDT by Candor7 (Obama . fascist info..http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Thanks for the links, Tiger. Yeah, Phoenix TV should usually know what they're talking about.

I'm just a bit suspicious because pics "uploaded on the internet by a witness" have often been false in the past, and everyone tends to just run with them, making it more complicated to find out what actually happened in these types of incidents.

I thought it was curious early on in this story when Yonhap quoted an intel source saying it was a helicopter. Some time afterwards I saw an AP report claiming to quote locals saying it was a helicopter too.

26 posted on 08/18/2010 12:52:52 AM PDT by Int (Sins of the media: exaggeration and oversimplification)
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To: Int
AP's earlier report from 3 hours ago:

A man who lives in Ersonggou village, about 5 kilometers (3 miles) from the crash site, said about 100 police have cordoned off the area.

The man, who would give only his surname Ning, told The Associated Press he heard from other locals that the craft was a helicopter that had flown from North Korea and that the pilot was killed on impact.

Ning said no buildings were hit and no one on the ground was reported injured.

27 posted on 08/18/2010 12:59:41 AM PDT by Int (Sins of the media: exaggeration and oversimplification)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Aniki? What is up


28 posted on 08/18/2010 1:02:41 AM PDT by happinesswithoutpeace (1.416785(71) x 10^32 You are receiving this broadcast as a dream)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: Int; AmericanInTokyo
According to latest update by Yonhap News, a radar at MCRC (Master Control & Reporting Center) in S. Korea detected the plane in question taking off from Shinuiju airbase on Aug. 17(the crash occurred around 3pm on Aug. 17,) and it was identified as MIG-21.
30 posted on 08/18/2010 1:34:40 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: Greysard

Maybe the guy just wanted OUT and saw the only chance to get OUT that he was likely ever to get.


31 posted on 08/18/2010 1:49:29 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One i've not been p[aying attention to the FlSCLesson.")
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To: TigerLikesRooster
According to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21 most are single seaters, but Tbilisi manufactured the twin-seaters both for export and for the USSR.

It would be more interesting if it was a twin-seater, do they have that in NK?

32 posted on 08/18/2010 2:14:57 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith
Right. We could entertain the possibility that there is another guy on the run in Chinese country side. But I don't know one way or the other.
33 posted on 08/18/2010 2:25:57 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
If it was a Mig 21 it was a Mig21U http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People’s_Air_Force it is a fighter/trainer and they have about 30 illegally imported from Kazakhstan in 1999

If it is a trainer it would be twin seater.

The MiG-21U was built in Moscow as well as in Tbilisi.

According to this http://www.mig-21.de/english/inservice.htm#northKorea

North Korean armed forces have been massively supported with Soviet and Chinese weapon technology including - since the sixties - MiG-21s and F-7s. In its turn the DRPK military supported the Arab countries during the Yom Kippur war in 1973 with pilots and possibly also with airplanes.

Caused by the strict isolation of the country little is known about number and current state of North Korean MiG-21s and F-7s. However, it is to assume, that notwithstanding the bad economic situation of the country sufficiently material and personnel resources are available for the armed forces and that of the countries approximately 200 MiG-21 / F-7 a larger number is operational.

It was reported recently that Kazakhstan has delivered about 40 MiG-21s to North Korea via China.

Versions in overview:
MiG-21F-13
MiG-21PFM
MiG-21MF
MiG-21U / US

It is not certain that it was a 21U, and it could either have been a single or a twin seater. Do we have better pictures from the crash?

34 posted on 08/18/2010 2:36:34 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

No new pictures yet. I suspect that PLA want to make sure that no more photos would get out. This is a frequent pattern in media censorship of China. Right after some incident, news or photos are out on Internet or news channel. Then the authorities move in and cut off the news source, or even retroactively erase posted photos or articles.


35 posted on 08/18/2010 2:42:05 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I hope that NGA got the time to take nice pictures, this will be one of the first nuts to crack for Letitia Long.


36 posted on 08/18/2010 2:59:54 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Shot in the head upon landing.


37 posted on 08/18/2010 3:12:35 AM PDT by Carley (For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Probably a MiG-21PF/PFM:

A N.Korean MiG-21 Crashed In China
Possibly a deserter. The locals at the crash site revealed on the internet that there was one man rescued by medical people. The aircraft was in rather good shape (it didn't explode), hinting insufficient fuel being the cause of crash. People at my forum have identified it as a MiG-21PF/PFM (see image).
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/rise-china/56293-n-korean-mig-21-crashed-china.html

North Korea obtained about 180 MiG-21s, including the MiG-21F-13, the MiG-21PF/PFM, and the MiG-21U/UM. Surprisingly, despite the country's close ties with China, North Korea doesn't seem to have obtained any F-7s. North Korean MiG-21s remain in first-line service.
http://www.vectorsite.net/avmig21_2.html

38 posted on 08/18/2010 3:17:14 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

The pilot, who was reportedly the only person onboard the plane, was killed in the incident.

http://www.rthk.org.hk/rthk/news/englishnews/20100818/news_20100818_56_692005.htm


39 posted on 08/18/2010 3:18:34 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith
Is the rescued guy already dead? Or there are two people involved? Can't tell from these reports.

Thanx for digging more info from Internet. Opinions from multiple sites(FR, S. Korea, and China) all seem to agree that the plane ran out fuel and crashed.

Some in S. Korea claims that China agreed to take over flight training of N. Korean air force, and they are doing it in Fushun area. If this is true, the plane took off from Shinuiju, flying to Fushun for training, and crashed due to insufficient fuel. So far this is just a rumor on Internet and not verified by any credible media.

40 posted on 08/18/2010 3:34:01 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

“Is the rescued guy already dead?”

If the pilot survived he could give the Chinese a good look into the readiness of the NK airforce. If they say he’s dead they don’t have to return him.


41 posted on 08/18/2010 4:08:39 AM PDT by PastorBooks
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To: TigerLikesRooster

This sounds just like a chinese Arkancide.


42 posted on 08/18/2010 4:17:00 AM PDT by chainsaw ( 'You know that your landing gear is up and locked when it takes full power to taxi to the terminal)
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To: chainsaw

Pilot wanting to leave socialist paradise. Obviously mentally ill. Obama administration spokesman states if not killed in crash, ought to be drug tested.


43 posted on 08/18/2010 4:32:55 AM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: Int

It is not a MiG-15. The ident is a MiG-21.


44 posted on 08/18/2010 4:38:57 AM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: TigerLikesRooster; All
TLR? Thanks for this thread and the excellent data, and just to echo other FReepers, don't think for one second that you are any kind of 'fool', absolutely NO WAY my FRiend, you don't have control over the naming conventions of any image hosting service, especially with a dynamic (as in 'changing') story like this one. You scooped 'em as I see it, and the pilot that was presumably seeking to defect should have followed the example of the Number One Juchebag Kim Jong, and taken a TRAIN, instead of flying. ;)

Nice catch TLR! :)
45 posted on 08/18/2010 4:45:16 AM PDT by mkjessup
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To: Candor7

The pilot probably tried to bail out... only to realize that their ejection seat hadn’t been worked on since the Norks bought the MiG-21 from the USSR all those many years again.

Then died on impact.


46 posted on 08/18/2010 5:03:09 AM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: mkjessup; Candor7; AmericanInTokyo; AdmSmith
Update 1 from Yonhap News

According to Kyodo News, there is a survivor from the crash who was able to parachute down to safety, quoting Hong Kong media.

Update 2 from Yonhap News

Summary: A reporter from Yonhap News drove to reach the crash site in Fushun. However, the site was cordoned off by local police. Checkpoints were set up to restrict access to the site. He managed to interview witnesses and other locals. According to them, it crashed between 3 and 4 pm yesterday(Aug. 17.) It flew low and circled over the village a few times. It made some erratic noises while flying, suddenly stalled and crashed. The plane was relatively intact after the crash.

47 posted on 08/18/2010 5:23:32 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: epluribus_2

“Let me be clear...he had the right to leave but I won’t comment on whether it was wise.”


48 posted on 08/18/2010 5:27:16 AM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

FR rocks. I too love it when we get the news out......correctly!


49 posted on 08/18/2010 6:02:17 AM PDT by freebird5850 (Obama golfed while the Gulf gushed.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

bump


50 posted on 08/18/2010 6:41:59 AM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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